apom Posted May 17, 2007 Author Share Posted May 17, 2007 Did you pluck that from thin air? In general a 300000 flat (average 2 bedroom) in London will rent for 1400 pounds a month. That is more than the IO on a 7% mortgage covering 75% of the value. I stressed in the orriginal that they can struggle: Not that all would, and perhaps if you added in the extra bits, or is the IO the whole cost, voids etc. service charges, maintainence.. Chances are you think I am paranoid if I turned round and said that since 2001 this has been a big plot to manipulate people into getting into huge debt to buy us out of a possible recession. I took the 50% struggle from the following story: http://money.guardian.co.uk/houseprices/st...2078280,00.html Read it, it is huge, but fascinating and in a defence of my original diatribe I did say “can struggle to… blah blah..” and there are areas where they do (struggle) There are areas where they don’t. There are few areas where the cost of running the property is covered by the rental income after all costs. This is for interest only loans too, where the defence of eventual ownership is bunk But the point I think is valid. When an investments asset value is considerably more then its possible income generation then any gain in asset price is driven by speculation… It becomes a greater fool market where fortunes are made, but can only be made if fortunes are lost. (if no fortunes would be lost then eventually the speculative asset would need to draw in all of the money in the world, leaving it necessary to bring back the barter system to be able to exchange any other asset, sounds crazy? So does 300% inflation over 7 years (in some areas, not all)) Will this program attempt to cover up the damage of the last few crazy years, or will it point the country at the very real truth that its way beyond time that we bit the bulitt, admitted the truth and let the healing begin. Too many people will have been hurt very badly due to being mislead by mortgage lenders being sold as market pundits to the masses on serious news programmes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apom Posted May 17, 2007 Author Share Posted May 17, 2007 Not having a go at you adibrown but surely the price that a LL bought at is irrelevant to his/her decision to carry on renting it out. Surely it is all about return on capital? If a flat can be sold for £600k that was bought at £300k five years ago and the rent has not really gone up much in that time surely it would be better to sell, put the money in the bank and go on holiday until it all calms down? buy from a pessimist, sell to an optimist. There are no arguments in a bull market beyond those for the true investors to sell to those who provide the profit. Greater fools Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest d23 Posted May 17, 2007 Share Posted May 17, 2007 d23, your not allowed to use the edit button. Don't worry I've done it as well, although not in the simple maths section, I try to stay clear of "inflation" talks. edited for spelling not maths. I haven't edited anything for maths, my original mistake is still there for all to see! nicely followed by a sarcastic comment that now makes me look like a tw*t! I never have and never would edit a post to correct a mistake in my maths / logic etc etc; I fully put my hands up here (altho it does make my point that apom was exaggerating the figures even 'more correct' now ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Bunny Posted May 17, 2007 Share Posted May 17, 2007 (edited) At this point a thread at lunchtime was merged with this thread. Really confusing as no-one told us they did it. FP 'The overwhelming view of experts is that there will be a house price crash'. Oh and one of us was on too talking some gibberish about a *** - fat chance... It'll be repeated at 6.30pm as stated on three other thread. Edited May 17, 2007 by Financial Planner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smell the Fear Posted May 17, 2007 Share Posted May 17, 2007 'The overwhelming view of experts is that there will be a house price crash'. Oh and one of us was on too talking some gibberish about a *** - fat chance... It'll be repeated at 6.30pm as stated on three other thread. missed it by 2 mins! I'll see it tonight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosie Posted May 17, 2007 Share Posted May 17, 2007 Yes just saw it! Liked the balloon and pin bit at the beginning. (I am going to work today honest...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apom Posted May 17, 2007 Author Share Posted May 17, 2007 (edited) I haven't edited anything for maths, my original mistake is still there for all to see! nicely followed by a sarcastic comment that now makes me look like a tw*t! I never have and never would edit a post to correct a mistake in my maths / logic etc etc; I fully put my hands up here (altho it does make my point that apom was exaggerating the figures even 'more correct' now ) Read my above point, Please the program is valid and I said "CAN"[/b] struggle, not that "In every case you will not find that this point of view is not 100% accurate because the housing market is 100% regulated my an army of economists who don't sleep." there are examples where my comment is correct, and I said tired, now and I said.... do I have to again?.... can please.. it can struggle.. .... weeeee gibble http://money.guardian.co.uk/houseprices/st...2078280,00.html Edited May 17, 2007 by apom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apom Posted May 17, 2007 Author Share Posted May 17, 2007 Yes just saw it! Liked the balloon and pin bit at the beginning.(I am going to work today honest...) superb, It is gym night.. so another excuse not to go... (my quest for size zero is thwarted again..) Is the program actually out on BBC at prime time and bearish? kudos to financial planner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest grumpy-old-man Posted May 17, 2007 Share Posted May 17, 2007 superb,It is gym night.. so another excuse not to go... (my quest for size zero is thwarted again..) Is the program actually out on BBC at prime time and bearish? kudos to financial planner. you are a lady then apom ? I always assumed you were a man for some reason, although I don't know why Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apom Posted May 17, 2007 Author Share Posted May 17, 2007 you are a lady then apom ?I always assumed you were a man for some reason, although I don't know why Hairy bloke.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest grumpy-old-man Posted May 17, 2007 Share Posted May 17, 2007 Hairy bloke.. ah, I was right then, I obviously didn't get your size 0 pun, it's that North-South divide thingy apom ps - I am a man, just in case you all were not sure. anyway btt, I don't want someone accusing me of going off topic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest grumpy-old-man Posted May 17, 2007 Share Posted May 17, 2007 I haven't edited anything for maths, my original mistake is still there for all to see! nicely followed by a sarcastic comment that now makes me look like a tw*t! I never have and never would edit a post to correct a mistake in my maths / logic etc etc; I fully put my hands up here (altho it does make my point that apom was exaggerating the figures even 'more correct' now ) that's why I like your posts d23, your honest & can laugh at yourself. anyway where's PP today ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casual Observer Posted May 17, 2007 Share Posted May 17, 2007 edited for spelling Why did you bother? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest goat Posted May 17, 2007 Share Posted May 17, 2007 Why did you bother? Bitchy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest d23 Posted May 17, 2007 Share Posted May 17, 2007 If you have Sky you can watch it live (in 15 minutes or so) at 6:30 on channel 974 which shows BBC1 London 24 hours a day. anyone watching this? updates please! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Converted Lurker Posted May 17, 2007 Share Posted May 17, 2007 OK, here's my prediction for the show:2 resident 'experts' in the studio - one a mortgage broker (Ray Bulger type), the other an EA from Savills or Fuxtons. Slightly bearish reporter trolls the streets and visits houses that are 'worth' 3 times what they were in 1995 - talk to smug homeowners, one of whom may be trying to move up ladder but slowly realising they can't afford it. Also interview a BTL getting out of a Porsche asking him if he's worried about a crash. Reporter doesn't convince. Cut back to studio, whereupon experts claim foreign investment is 'holding the market up from the top' and that with rates still relatively low and prices unlikely to drop too much, we should buy. If anything less bullish, I will be pleasantly surprised. you missed out the lingering narrow eyed look between presenters at the mention of falling prices - which paranoid HPCers class as the vested interested smirk (bet they've all got BTL portfolios) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest grumpy-old-man Posted May 17, 2007 Share Posted May 17, 2007 If you have Sky you can watch it live (in 15 minutes or so) at 6:30 on channel 974 which shows BBC1 London 24 hours a day. haven't got sky, bl00dy freeview. when do the bbc up it to the web links ? & has anyone got the direct rss link ? cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Winnie Posted May 17, 2007 Share Posted May 17, 2007 OK, It was surprisingly and decidedly BEARish.............................big time in my view. They gave total sway to Will Hutton, direct interview etc.... My conspiracy theory is thatnow Brown has number 10 he is not going to give a monkeys if HPC occurs. He is that sort of cynical power-crazed loony. Also, he knows the voting population is 80% muppets and if he can associate HPC with Tony, he will.... Most of the muppets don't even know anyone else on the government apart from the PM. What with the C4 News piece last night the Brown Broadcasting Corp and C4 state funded Corp have been told to let it loose.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearfacts Posted May 17, 2007 Share Posted May 17, 2007 (edited) What a pleasant surprise. Very bearish .. not even a hint of a VI .. excluding that tw*t selling property in Berlin. Just to sum up the main points then: Only 10% of economists polled expect prices to keep rising. Reminders of 1992 showing a distressed OO fretting about the future and wondering how they would survive. Will Hutton , who has only ever gone out on a limb twice before to predict a crash 1 HPC1 and 2. The Dotcom bust saying how it was just like 1980's / 90's all over again. Contrasting property prices in Berlin to give a sense of how far out of wack the UK market is. Invitation to e-mail in with your views - we must all do this. And last but by no means least our very own FP or is that JD who managed to enlighten the masses that prices were crashing in the US, Ireland and Spain right now and said that there was gong to be a world wide house price crash ( not his exact words but I keep getting censored when I try to type **** !)- Top man JD - you are a star - mind you how do the neighbours treat you ? Actually I thought the best part was the contrast with the property market in Berlin. Very pleasant looking flat in what seemed to be a very nice part of Berlin in very nice gardens - asking £50K - so from what others have said on here about 1/8 th of the price of something similar in London. Remember this is in Berlin, a civilised advanced western economy where they still actually make things to sell around the world. This surely illustrated perfectly how absurd prices in the UK have become. Edited May 17, 2007 by Bearfacts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Winnie Posted May 17, 2007 Share Posted May 17, 2007 What a pleasant surprise. Very bearish .. not even a hint of a VI .. excluding that tw*t selling property in Berlin. Just to sum up the main points then:Only 10% of economists polled expect prices to keep rising. Reminders of 1992 showing a distressed OO fretting about the future and wondering how they would survive. Will Hutton , who has only ever gone out on a limb twice before to predict a crash 1 HPC1 and 2. The Dotcom bust saying how it was just like 1980's / 90's all over again. Contrasting property prices in Berlin to give a sense of how far out of wack the UK market is. Invitation to e-mail in with your views - we must all do this. And last but by no means least our very own FP or is that JD who managed to enlighten the masses that prices were crashing in the US, Ireland and Spain right now and said that there was gong to be a world wide house price crash ( not his exact words but I keep getting censored when I try to type **** !)- Top man JD - you are a star - mind you how do the neighbours treat you ? Actually I thought the best part was the contrast with the property market in Berlin. Very pleasant looking flat in what seemed to be a very nice part of Berlin in very nice gardens - asking £50K - so from what others have said on here about 1/8 th of the price of something similar in London. Remember this is in Berlin, a civilised advanced western economy where they still actually make things to sell around the world. This surely illustrated perfectly how absurd prices in the UK have become. Yes, the Berlin bit was very subtle. a perfectly nice normal young woman elated and surprised to find somewhere to live with a price tag which seemed sensible. The more I think about this, we are frogs being boiled a lot of us on this website as guests or members for years. if you were a random sheeple you would be starting to think Uh-OHHHHHHHHH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearfacts Posted May 17, 2007 Share Posted May 17, 2007 Yes, the Berlin bit was very subtle. a perfectly nice normal young woman elated and surprised to find somewhere to live with a price tag which seemed sensible. The more I think about this, we are frogs being boiled a lot of us on this website as guests or members for years. if you were a random sheeple you would be starting to think Uh-OHHHHHHHHH Mind you I have the feeling that she had been advised to buy a flat in Berlin as an 'investment' in order to build up some equity for a deposit for a place in the UK. It wasn't explicitly stated though. I wonder if the UK/ Irish property nutters can screw up the German market too. I have a dread feeling that a large percentage of viewers will have just let all the talk of crashes pass way over their heads and will instead have latched onto the comment about Berlin becoming the next potential property hot spot, probably booking their seats with Ryan Air right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anon Posted May 17, 2007 Share Posted May 17, 2007 anyone record this and is able to put it up on youtube? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anon Posted May 17, 2007 Share Posted May 17, 2007 cheers:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwardbear Posted May 17, 2007 Share Posted May 17, 2007 (edited) Groan, Berlin again. How can it become a property hotspot when its an employement coldspot, a lot of housing is sitting empty, and it's population is falling as people migrate to where the jobs are? EDIT - Germany had their property boom just after the wall came down. The returns never materialised, and a lot of people lost out. Edited May 17, 2007 by edwardbear Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BufferBear Bitcoin Bull Posted May 17, 2007 Share Posted May 17, 2007 For more reasons than you might suspect... Watch and see... Oh I see. I am really behind today!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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