Moroccan Property Hype

[catara]

>The reverse is happening. Lenders are offering more and more exotic loans.

These are the latest spasms before the mortgage "industry" tightens up.

>Even if there is a tightening which I think is reasonably likely, people buying in Morocco are generally not 'up against it' financially.

What do you mean? People that buy in Morocco take mortgages here in UK. Those mortgages won't be easy to take in the future.

The best INVESTING deals will be in USA in the next years.

Morocco should have started with £15000 properties, then improve their infrastructure and after 10 years reach the £100000 property. BUt the Greed was too strong and they simply took advantage of the prices in Spain to ask these outrageous prices!!!

By the way, I am sure there are people that pay millions of pounds for one house in Morocoo. Compared to them, your deal is indeed extremeley nice!

[BigLog]

>The reverse is happening. Lenders are offering more and more exotic loans.

These are the latest spasms before the mortgage "industry" tightens up.

>Even if there is a tightening which I think is reasonably likely, people buying in Morocco are generally not 'up against it' financially.

What do you mean? People that buy in Morocco take mortgages here in UK. Those mortgages won't be easy to take in the future.

The best INVESTING deals will be in USA in the next years.

Morocco should have started with £15000 properties, then improve their infrastructure and after 10 years reach the £100000 property. BUt the Greed was too strong and they simply took advantage of the prices in Spain to ask these outrageous prices!!!

By the way, I am sure there are people that pay millions of pounds for one house in Morocoo. Compared to them, your deal is indeed extremeley nice!

Not sure where you get this idea of starting with £15000 properties. I can tell you only the VERY cheapest is near that mark (real bargain basement stuff).

[catara]

Not sure where you get this idea of starting with £15000 properties. I can tell you only the VERY cheapest is near that mark (real bargain basement stuff).

In Egypt there are almost front line properties in Sharm or HUrghada for that price.

I consider Egypt to be a better choice as it offers 12 months season with sun and warm water. The plane ticket costs £150 roundtrip.

They have golf courses too.

[BigLog]

In Egypt there are almost front line properties in Sharm or HUrghada for that price.

I consider Egypt to be a better choice as it offers 12 months season with sun and warm water. The plane ticket costs £150 roundtrip.

They have golf courses too.

But surely Egypt already has a thriving terrorist threat ?

Also, you mention greed with regards Morocco and where they should have started. How do you plan to 'start' at that price. After all, labour costs, materials etc exceed that here even if you get the land for free !!

[catara]

But surely Egypt already has a thriving terrorist threat ?

Also, you mention greed with regards Morocco and where they should have started. How do you plan to 'start' at that price. After all, labour costs, materials etc exceed that here even if you get the land for free !!

Is it cheaper to build in Egypt than in Morocoo? Why is that?

Or you are saying that Egypt developers are forced to sell cheap because nobody would buy their houses otherwise?

Anyway, a built 1m^2 should not cost more than £200 in both Morocoo and Egypt. So a 50m^2 apartment should not cost more than £15000, including a good £5000 profit.

The land in Egypt can be bought by Egyptians with about 3 penny per m^2.

[BigLog]

Is it cheaper to build in Egypt than in Morocoo? Why is that?

Or you are saying that Egypt developers are forced to sell cheap because nobody would buy their houses otherwise?

Anyway, a built 1m^2 should not cost more than £200 in both Morocoo and Egypt. So a 50m^2 apartment should not cost more than £15000, including a good £5000 profit.

The land in Egypt can be bought by Egyptians with about 3 penny per m^2.

Therein lies the answer.

You cannot buy anyway in Morocco for anywhere near that amount per m2.

[catara]

Therein lies the answer.

You cannot buy anyway in Morocco for anywhere near that amount per m2.

Even at £100/m^2, this will add only £5000 per 50m^2 apartment. So £20000 would be an acceptable price for an entry level apartment. Why don't they make these kind of apartments available in Morocco?

[BigLog]

Even at £100/m^2, this will add only £5000 per 50m^2 apartment. So £20000 would be an acceptable price for an entry level apartment. Why don't they make these kind of apartments available in Morocco?

Firstly, 50m2 is absolutely tiny, so I think we need to compare apples with apples.

I'm not aware of any appartments in Saidia at 50m2 and if there are I pity the sardines who need to live in them.

In Morocco yes you can get very cheap appartments, but we are talking absolute rubbish quality that I'm sure would break some Human Rights code somewhere !

So if you *really* want to push it, yes you can get cheap appartments, I know of one Developer who is punching them out at less than £9000 per appartment (don't know the m2). I haven't had the pleasure of visiting them though so I cannot imagine how bad they are (though my wife did tell me they were not much better than a carboard box).

Not sure what point you are making (but I am interested in your views). By the way are you in Morocco, in Egypt ?? English ?? Moroccan ??

[catara]

Firstly, 50m2 is absolutely tiny, so I think we need to compare apples with apples.

I'm not aware of any appartments in Saidia at 50m2 and if there are I pity the sardines who need to live in them.

In Morocco yes you can get very cheap appartments, but we are talking absolute rubbish quality that I'm sure would break some Human Rights code somewhere !

So if you *really* want to push it, yes you can get cheap appartments, I know of one Developer who is punching them out at less than £9000 per appartment (don't know the m2). I haven't had the pleasure of visiting them though so I cannot imagine how bad they are (though my wife did tell me they were not much better than a carboard box).

Not sure what point you are making (but I am interested in your views). By the way are you in Morocco, in Egypt ?? English ?? Moroccan ??

I am in Liverpool, I had some interest in purchasing in Morocoo and/or Egypt but I decided to just visit them instead of purchasing there.

Maybe I shall purchase in Morocco if prices become more down-to -earth. Egypt is too far.

[BigLog]

I am in Liverpool, I had some interest in purchasing in Morocoo and/or Egypt but I decided to just visit them instead of purchasing there.

Maybe I shall purchase in Morocco if prices become more down-to -earth. Egypt is too far.

I think that's the difference Catara (if you don't mind me saying).

I don't think you are an 'investor' (no insult intended) - whereas Dogbox likes to call himself one.

I don't call 'flipping' imaginative, creative, helpful to the community, or indeed very ethical.

But there will always be 'investors' like Dogbox who'll not give two hoots about those types of issues, just 'flip' and make a quick buck.

Sigh.....

[adibrown]

I think that's the difference Catara (if you don't mind me saying).

I don't think you are an 'investor' (no insult intended) - whereas Dogbox likes to call himself one.

I don't call 'flipping' imaginative, creative, helpful to the community, or indeed very ethical.

But there will always be 'investors' like Dogbox who'll not give two hoots about those types of issues, just 'flip' and make a quick buck.

Sigh.....

Simply put....Morocco.... vastly over priced...vastly over hyped....the reality is as Catara says that Morocco got greedy and took advantage of simarly greedy people like Dogbox who believes by Hyping up the development on forums like this he can flip to a bigger fool for a £40k profit.

IMO there are no fools big enough to be investing £200k+ in an unstable Islamic state with 20% unemployment and 25% of its population below the poverty line with a growing population of fundamentalists and crimes against Christians (3 years in prison if you change your religion!!!). Golf course or no golf course.

[morocshock]

QUOTE(dogbox @ Sep 16 2006, 01:01 PM)

I took the trouble of communicating with Moroccans on unrelated non - property websites. Almost to a Man they told me the Atlantic side was too windy and that at certain times of the year sand fills the skies, not too mention one's orrifices

God your funny, as you are so keen to tell the world Emaar the worlds biggest real estate group is building in Morocco are you so keen to let everyone know that one of thier resorts Tinja is going to be next door to Paradise Golf & Beach Resort ?on the so called windswept beaches on the atlantic coast close to Tangier and Asilah.

And while your at it can you let the world also know that all other emaar resort apart for 1 will be on the so called windy Atlantic coast

for some reason the worlds largest real estate company and builder has not chosen you saidia I wonder why hhhhhhhhmmmmmmm maybe becouse its next to Algeria and in the middle of nowhere.

Saidia is good for one thing, if run out of fuel you can buy it off the street in bottles, great money spinner for invester brains Dogbox why not try flipping bottled fuel?

Flipping, in fact I dont even think you could flip own your slippers.

[BigLog]

QUOTE(dogbox @ Sep 16 2006, 01:01 PM)

I took the trouble of communicating with Moroccans on unrelated non - property websites. Almost to a Man they told me the Atlantic side was too windy and that at certain times of the year sand fills the skies, not too mention one's orrifices

God your funny, as you are so keen to tell the world Emaar the worlds biggest real estate group is building in Morocco are you so keen to let everyone know that one of thier resorts Tinja is going to be next door to Paradise Golf & Beach Resort ?on the so called windswept beaches on the atlantic coast close to Tangier and Asilah.

And while your at it can you let the world also know that all other emaar resort apart for 1 will be on the so called windy Atlantic coast

for some reason the worlds largest real estate company and builder has not chosen you saidia I wonder why hhhhhhhhmmmmmmm maybe becouse its next to Algeria and in the middle of nowhere.

Saidia is good for one thing, if run out of fuel you can buy it off the street in bottles, great money spinner for invester brains Dogbox why not try flipping bottled fuel?

Flipping, in fact I dont even think you could flip own your slippers.

Yes, I've seen that too. I've also seen old-style merc's with their rear window punched out and replaced with a row of jerry cans !! No rear view for the driver, just speeding past my car at very fast and dangerous speeds on the petrol run no doubt !

Morocshock, how do you think Oujda people will take to foreigners buying land in Saidia. I heard from someone from their that they won't take it too well ??

[catara]

I think that's the difference Catara (if you don't mind me saying).

I don't think you are an 'investor' (no insult intended) - whereas Dogbox likes to call himself one.

I don't call 'flipping' imaginative, creative, helpful to the community, or indeed very ethical.

But there will always be 'investors' like Dogbox who'll not give two hoots about those types of issues, just 'flip' and make a quick buck.

Sigh.....

I am definitely not a flipper. I happened to have some properties whose value went up a lot, to my surprise.

I was thinking lately of buying some holiday home(s) but I could not find some good ratio quality/price because

everywhere flippers made a good living in the last 5 years.

[euroscooby]

"Morocshock, how do you think Oujda people will take to foreigners buying land in Saidia. I heard from someone from their that they won't take it too well ??"

Pointless inflammatory quote.

I have some friends who have spent months opposing a block of apartments on their Victorian Street. They are not taking too well either.

Change happens. Countries change and grow. Sometimes the hardest time to see this is when you are too close. For example living there.

[mmv]

"Morocshock, how do you think Oujda people will take to foreigners buying land in Saidia. I heard from someone from their that they won't take it too well ??"

Pointless inflammatory quote.

I have some friends who have spent months opposing a block of apartments on their Victorian Street. They are not taking too well either.

Change happens. Countries change and grow. Sometimes the hardest time to see this is when you are too close. For example living there.

You seem surprised that people are opposing a development of a block of apartments. This is common in the UK and house prices are still rising albeit not as much as they have been in the last few years.

[philippa]

You seem surprised that people are opposing a development of a block of apartments. This is common in the UK and house prices are still rising albeit not as much as they have been in the last few years.

Opposition to flats in the UK and any opposition to foreigners buying land and property in a country like Morocco are not the same thing as you well know. I find it incredible how much ramping goes on in this forum re Morocco. Why the need for it? If it is such a great investment, clever you. But stop ramping it here as most of us can see more problems with these high risk investments than opportunities.

[mmv]

Opposition to flats in the UK and any opposition to foreigners buying land and property in a country like Morocco are not the same thing as you well know. I find it incredible how much ramping goes on in this forum re Morocco. Why the need for it? If it is such a great investment, clever you. But stop ramping it here as most of us can see more problems with these high risk investments than opportunities.

I agree all new builds anywhere are a high risk because it depends on the developer and the build quality. Morocco is no different from Dubai, Spain or the UK. What you need to realise that there are many in the UK who are investing in the UK on investment properties and for the past few years have been investing in Spain for a holiday home / investment property then in Dubai and these investors are now moving to Morocco as the prices are relatively cheaper. This includes companies developing in Dubai who are also investing in Morocco.

[catara]

Spain for a holiday home / investment property then in Dubai and these investors are now moving to Morocco as the prices are relatively cheaper. This includes companies developing in Dubai who are also investing in Morocco.

Anything is cheaper than the rip-off 2006-prices Spain.

How can Morocco, an undeveloped country, compare to Spain?

the prices in Spain will crash and the prices in Morocco will crash after them.

Do not use the same argument with developers from Dubai over and over again! Dubai will crash badly, the developers from Dubai come to Morocco to take advantage of some "so-called-investors" naivity.

When prices will crash, they will just decrease their prices by 30% and still make a good living in Morocoo. the "so-called-investors" will be the ones which will get burned.

Look at Las Vegas situation, the big construction companies have just decrease prices by 30% so the off-plan investors have just 30% of their investment.

Morocco came too late on the market!

[BigLog]

"Morocshock, how do you think Oujda people will take to foreigners buying land in Saidia. I heard from someone from their that they won't take it too well ??"

Pointless inflammatory quote.

I have some friends who have spent months opposing a block of apartments on their Victorian Street. They are not taking too well either.

Change happens. Countries change and grow. Sometimes the hardest time to see this is when you are too close. For example living there.

It's also pretty hard commenting on something you know nothing about from a distance.

My wife is from Oujda, I am from the UK. We live here.

As Morocshock said, get some history lessons and learn something about the people who are going to be your neighbours.

[euroscooby]

It's also pretty hard commenting on something you know nothing about from a distance.

My wife is from Oujda, I am from the UK. We live here.

As Morocshock said, get some history lessons and learn something about the people who are going to be your neighbours.

So what. I am from London but that does not make me an expert on the London property market. I may well have a decent feel for it but do not profess to be an expert spending my life on forums letting people know what an excellent caring earth mother employer I am, how I 'know' Morocco and everyone who is buying property is a morally corrupt 'flipper' up to take money from the local population.

As for history, that was my point. History is just that, history. You have to take a view on the future. As for neighbours. What do you suggest I do, introduce myself to the whole town?

I am not a Morocco ramper it comes with huge risk, which I accept, but you anti purchase fellas are losing the plot. Balanced arguments are fine but your vitirol is wandering well off beam.

[philippa]

So what. I am from London but that does not make me an expert on the London property market.

Good point euroscooby. Professors of astronomy have never been to Mars either.

[euroscooby]

You seem surprised that people are opposing a development of a block of apartments. This is common in the UK and house prices are still rising albeit not as much as they have been in the last few years.

I am not surprised at all. You miss the point. The quote was "Morocshock, how do you think Oujda people will take to foreigners buying land in Saidia. I heard from someone from their that they won't take it too well ??"

My point was NO ONE wants development near them in any country for any reason. The reasons vary. But to say "I heard from someone (oh yeah someone!) that they wont take it well" is hardly a shocker. It was a comment with no value.

It does not undermine the investment case for Saidia that someone down the road aint too keen on it. Someone in that Victorian Road aint too keen on apartments either.

Good point euroscooby. Professors of astronomy have never been to Mars either.

I think that might be clever but I suspect I am a tad too dim to work it.

[BigLog]

So what. I am from London but that does not make me an expert on the London property market. I may well have a decent feel for it but do not profess to be an expert spending my life on forums letting people know what an excellent caring earth mother employer I am, how I 'know' Morocco and everyone who is buying property is a morally corrupt 'flipper' up to take money from the local population.

As for history, that was my point. History is just that, history. You have to take a view on the future. As for neighbours. What do you suggest I do, introduce myself to the whole town?

I am not a Morocco ramper it comes with huge risk, which I accept, but you anti purchase fellas are losing the plot. Balanced arguments are fine but your vitirol is wandering well off beam.

Gosh, talk about blowing a gasket.

I'd hardly call 48 posts from me 'spending my life' on here - take a good look at the 'flipper' in this debate - I think his thread count is in the several thousands........(and I'm only about 10 or so more than you).

If a person knew nothing about London and wanted to know something about the place, anyone with half a brain would not dismiss some words of wisdom from that person from that region. "You live in London, tell me, what's it like ?" Or is that too complicated a concept for you to comprehend ??

Only a love-blind fool, mesmorised, or someone immature or who blatently didn't want to listen to anyone else's opinion except their own would take another route.

Sheesh, this is like some spotty kid who has fallen in love with a picture of a Ford Fiesta in Autotrader, and I've seen the car and can tell it's been in an insurance write-off and no matter what I say, the spotty teenager will have none of it - he's determined to go against any wise reasoning.

I do 'know' something about Morocco - sheesh I live here ! Dogbox, who has NEVER been here, cannot give his opinion on the place. Whether MY opinion is right or wrong it is my opinion because I am here. You may not like my opinion. But being over the Internet, the only thing I suggest for you is whether to believe my opinions or not. You choose to believe that I'm an Earth-loving Employer, so if I'm that nice, why do you choose to disbelieve the other bits ??

I can tell you I've experienced 100's of things in Morocco that I'd never experience ever in my life in the UK (and no I'm not going to tell you - it's cost me life/money to learn about them). Dogbox can only say "well what I've read about the place is......" or "well what I've heard about Morocco is....." but he can NEVER say "it's a great place, it's a terrible place, it's stinks, it smells beautiful, the people are friendly, the people are rude, the coffee is great the coffee is terrible, the bureaucrasy is lousy, it's efficient etc etc". He doesn't KNOW. But, he is doing the latter because he is HYPING - hence the title of this thread (get the connection now ?)

And to take the stupid example of Mars, Astromoners don't KNOW about Mars, they can only presume and deduce. Only when samples of rock etc have been returned from Mars can they say things about the place. So even then they have to SEND something there to FIND OUT (and no that doesn't mean someone with rose-tinted goggles shooting video).

Finally, the only person Dogbox will flip to is the next Mug buying the HYPE- why don't you offer him £40k more than he bought it for (only make sure you've watched the promotion DVD first)

[jibber]

BigLog,

Can you clarify for me what you are for and what you are against?

Are you againist DogBox et. al. because they a) are ramping up prices and buying into something that pushes prices out of the reach of the average Moroccan?

OR

Are you against Vision 2010 and the aims of increasing tourism in Morocco?