HairyOb1 Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 3 minutes ago, iamnumerate said: 1) Islam is not a race I'm guessing you missed both the quotes and as much as you suggest it isn't racism, it is. 3 minutes ago, iamnumerate said: 2) More insults, implying that someone is racist - another sign that your argument is very weak. You see an insult I am still looking for it. 3 minutes ago, iamnumerate said: FWIW I do think bankers get paid too much but I don't think it is really relevant to house prices. 3) I was trying to point out that my views don't come from the news but from my experience, you are really trying very hard not to understand now. There is no point in discussing with someone who insults people, I will have to put you on my ignore list. Please do, please, for you make utterly no sense at all and, unlike many others here, don't add to my knowledge at all. You have simply ignored my argument, milked a strawman for all it was worth and have now run away screaming like a snowflake. Cheerio. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamnumerate Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 2 minutes ago, HairyOb1 said: I'm guessing you missed both the quotes and as much as you suggest it isn't racism, it is. You see an insult I am still looking for it. Please do, please, for you make utterly no sense at all and, unlike many others here, don't add to my knowledge at all. You have simply ignored my argument, milked a strawman for all it was worth and have now run away screaming like a snowflake. Cheerio. If Islam is a race can a white man convert to being a blackman or vice a versa? Because you can convert to being a Muslim. With a mind as closed as yours - no one can add to your knowledge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamnumerate Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 4 minutes ago, HairyOb1 said: Please do, please, for you make utterly no sense at all and, unlike many others here, don't add to my knowledge at all. You have simply ignored my argument, milked a strawman for all it was worth and have now run away screaming like a snowflake. Cheerio. However, as you have been so polite I will keep on trying to educate you that the problem is benefits and planning controls not bankers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HairyOb1 Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 6 minutes ago, iamnumerate said: However, as you have been so polite I will keep on trying to educate you that the problem is benefits and planning controls not bankers. Sorry, Although I am, you're not, and it isn't. For I have never said it's the bankers, and it's this salient point that you continually miss, that has made me ask if you were intentionally doing it. I'd suggest you went ahead and got me on the ignore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HairyOb1 Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 10 minutes ago, iamnumerate said: If Islam is a race can a white man convert to being a blackman or vice a versa? Because you can convert to being a Muslim. With a mind as closed as yours - no one can add to your knowledge. It's discriminatory, and that's enough for me. I never called you one, merely likened your argument to one used by a racist, as it's the only one I could think of at the time. I can supply you with another, but anyone who displays Islamophobia, and then cries out aloud "but, but please, it isn't racist", is either criminally dumb, or deliberately so, and neither is a cracking look. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamnumerate Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 (edited) On 22/03/2017 at 8:27 AM, HairyOb1 said: Well, to be frank, I think it's a bit of a shame folk see this as the way forward; I'm reminded of a cartoon of there being a banker, a Brit and an immigrant at a table with £10 in £1 cons on the table. The banker grabs 9 of them and warns the Brit that the immigrant is going to take the other one; Do you really think this is not an attack on bankers? What does it mean if it is not implying that bankers are the problem? I apologize if I have misunderstood it - please explain who it is attacking? Edited March 23, 2017 by iamnumerate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HairyOb1 Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 7 minutes ago, iamnumerate said: Do you really think this is not an attack on bankers? What does it mean? No, it isn't, it's an allegory, the characters are meaningless; replace banker, place CEO of a Monopoly in there, put a corporate fat cat, politician milking the job, 1 of the 1% elite. I'm not telling you what the allegory is, if you can't work it out yourself, we've used up all of my giving a sh*t that you understand or not. Is English your first language? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamnumerate Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 (edited) 7 minutes ago, HairyOb1 said: No, it isn't, it's an allegory, the characters are meaningless; replace banker, place CEO of a Monopoly in there, put a corporate fat cat, politician milking the job, 1 of the 1% elite. I'm not telling you what the allegory is, if you can't work it out yourself, we've used up all of my giving a sh*t that you understand or not. Is English your first language? More insults - ok so you are saying that the 1% are the problem - you should be clearer there are lots of people who think bankers are the problem. Of course I still think you are wrong the so called 1% (who have very different views, and are not a secret conspiracy are not the problem). * (Although of course the 1% aren't really wipping up anti immigrant rhetoric apart from Donald Trump of course). 7 minutes ago, HairyOb1 said: Is English your first language? When you started confusing race and religion I did think of pointing out that they are different in English, but I thought only idiots make remarks about language ability - obviously I was right. Edited March 23, 2017 by iamnumerate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HairyOb1 Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 1 minute ago, iamnumerate said: More insults - ok so you are saying that the 1% are the problem - you should be clearer there are lots of people who think bankers are the problem. Look, I am really starting to think you are an idiot, so do us both a favour, put me on ignore and ignore me. 1 minute ago, iamnumerate said: (Although of course the 1% aren't really wipping up anti immigrant rhetoric apart from Donald Trump of course). When you started confusing race and religion I did think of pointing out that they are different in English, but I thought only idiots make remarks about language ability - obviously I was right. No, you are simply not getting something, so it was right to work out if you didn't understand it, or were deliberately not understanding it. I am leaning to the former rather than the latter. I haven't confused race and religion, and I have clearly told you what I think of people who make that mistake. That hasn't changed. I asked if English was your first language, as I thought of 3 options: 1. You were dumb 2. You were acting dumb 3. You didn't, couldn't, understand my point, as you didn't understand it through language. I'm now leaning on it being 1. Thanks for the clarification. Now that WAS intended as an insult. Sue me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HairyOb1 Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 By the way, you're really pulling out all of the stops by insulting me (calling me an idiot), when you think people are losing their argument by insulting people. But, I am sure you don't see it like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamnumerate Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 (edited) 11 minutes ago, HairyOb1 said: Look, I am really starting to think you are an idiot, so do us both a favour, put me on ignore and ignore me. I haven't confused race and religion, and I have clearly told you what I think of people who make that mistake. That hasn't changed. I thought you were an idiot a long time ago but I still hope that you might change so I will not put you on ignore. You did confuse race and religion - Islam is not a race. Or did someone hack your account? BTW do you think the 1% all think the same? Are you the German David Icke? - You sound like him with things like this Quote I think we're all getting to close to the stage where we're not looking at the real crooks in the country and being divided by government in order they can make some very unpalatable decisions seem ok in the eyes of the majority. If you think the UK government is that clever, you really need to read more about our recent history. He said https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/d/davidicke543062.html Quote The human race is a herd. Here we are, unique, eternal aspects of consciousness with an infinity of potential, and we have allowed ourselves to become an unthinking, unquestioning blob of conformity and uniformity. A herd. Once we concede to the herd mentality, we can be controlled and directed by a tiny few. And we are. Edited March 23, 2017 by iamnumerate Clarity Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamnumerate Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 2 minutes ago, HairyOb1 said: By the way, you're really pulling out all of the stops by insulting me (calling me an idiot), when you think people are losing their argument by insulting people. But, I am sure you don't see it like that. I am happy to stop insulting you if you can stop insulting others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HairyOb1 Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 Just now, iamnumerate said: I thought you were an idiot a long time ago but I still hope that you might change so I will not put you on ignore. But didn't you say people lost their arguments when they insulted people? Just now, iamnumerate said: You did confuse race and religion - Islam is not a race. Or did someone hack your account? I didn't confuse it, I think you did. If one groups people by colour, relegion, creed then it's racism in my view, or a form of it. This is for you."Islam is a collection of ideas and beliefs, and, like all religions, should be criticised by rational people. When dislike of Islam takes the form of mindless irrational hatred based on cultural stereotypes, however, it becomes Islamophobia, and has many parallels with racism" I consider anyone that is Islamophobic to be racist using the duck analogy: if it sounds like a duck, if it walks like a duck and if it looks like a duck, it's likely to be a duck Just now, iamnumerate said: BTW do you think the 1% all think the same? Are you the German David Icke? - You sound like him with things like this He said https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/d/davidicke543062.html Is that intended as an insult? I'd up your game mate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamnumerate Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 1 minute ago, HairyOb1 said: I didn't confuse it, I think you did. If one groups people by colour, relegion, creed then it's racism in my view, or a form of it. I don't know why you keep on talking about racism rather than the subjects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HairyOb1 Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 5 minutes ago, iamnumerate said: I am happy to stop insulting you if you can stop insulting others. You miss your own point. Again, is this intentional? Your argument is weakened if you insult people... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamnumerate Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 (edited) 3 minutes ago, HairyOb1 said: But didn't you say people lost their arguments when they insulted people? I always like to debate with people in the language they prefer - yours is obviously insults - rather than being clear or answering my points. However if you want to be civil we can be. Your point is that the someone is manipulating us, mine is I don't agree. (Sadly I am not quite sure who this someone is). Edited March 23, 2017 by iamnumerate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HairyOb1 Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 1 minute ago, iamnumerate said: I don't know why you keep on talking about racism rather than the subjects. Because you brought it up, as you didn't like an analogy I made. Again, is this deliberate, intentional? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HairyOb1 Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 1 minute ago, iamnumerate said: I always like to debate with people in the language they prefer - yours is obviously insults - rather than being clear or answering my points. So you don't agree with your own argument? Don't you find that odd? You don't have any points mate, you have clearly, and I think willfully, ignored all of mine and chosen to make your own suppositions. When explained to you, you've then suggested I make an allegory clearer. You are genuinely, and this isn't an insult, it's an observation, stupid in the way you're behaving. I've got all day, so I'll carry on answering these points as much as you want, but you're clearly not understanding anything I put to you, which is kind of embarrassing for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamnumerate Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 1 hour ago, HairyOb1 said: Ah, so now you're labelled by what you read? I chose to read lots of different papers, different media outlets as then you can separate the wheat from the chaff and make your own decision on what's going on. Is this not a little bit like the "I'm not racist, I have a muslim friend" argument? I think this was the first post about racism. In the UK it is quite emotive and so best not to mention in a non related topic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamnumerate Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 (edited) To try to get back on topic is this a fair summary of our disagreement? "Your point is that the someone is manipulating us, mine is I don't agree. " Edited March 23, 2017 by iamnumerate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HairyOb1 Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 Just now, iamnumerate said: I think this was the first post about racism. In the UK it is quite emotive and so best not to mention in a non related topic. It is related - You tried to defend your position as non right wing by the use of your previous reading of a paper most would consider left wing. I then used an analogy, in quotes to ensure you understood it was an analogy. You've continued to bang the drum about racism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamnumerate Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 Just now, HairyOb1 said: It is related - You tried to defend your position as non right wing by the use of your previous reading of a paper most would consider left wing. I then used an analogy, in quotes to ensure you understood it was an analogy. You've continued to bang the drum about racism. 1) I was not trying to do that I was pointing out that my view came from my person experience rather than the media. One thing I agree with the late Charles Kennedy about is that right and left are out date views 2) I found it an insulting analogy, if it wasn't I was wrong now please answer my question " To try to get back on topic is this a fair summary of our disagreement? "Your point is that the someone is manipulating us, mine is I don't agree. " " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HairyOb1 Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 1 minute ago, iamnumerate said: To try to get back on topic is this a fair summary of our disagreement? "Your point is that the someone is manipulating us, mine is I don't agree. " No, it isn't. It is that we're being manipulated by the press, by the government, by much more than that; the rhetoric now, is more right wing than at anytime of my 40 years here. It is vile. The Home Office not chastising the press for sledging the judiciary, the blatant attempt to silence the House of Lords as undemocratic when it is part of the democracy and has been for ages. The vilification of any non English person in the press. I hate to mention yesterday, but the right wing media is full of talk about immigration when the chap was born in the UK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamnumerate Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 2 minutes ago, HairyOb1 said: the blatant attempt to silence the House of Lords as undemocratic when it is part of the democracy and has been for ages. That is not new Lloyd George said in 1909 " ‘500 men, ordinary men chosen accidentally from among the unemployed’, " http://www.insults.net/html/political/davidlloydgeorge.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamnumerate Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 6 minutes ago, HairyOb1 said: The Home Office not chastising the press for sledging the judiciary I have to say that was wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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