macca Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 Lord Heseltine said on LBC he thinks the UK will join the Euro. Thats a leave for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheeple Splinter Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 (edited) The "leave" camp have really missed a trick in their campaign. Remainers have used fear as their main weapon ie fear of the consequences of leaving. But what about fear of the consequences of remaining? Some countries , Greece especially, have had a terrible time since joining the EU and the euro. If we stay in, will we not possibly be drawn into the disaster which is brewing in the EU? We signed up originally for a trade agreement. I like to think of it in terms of how we get on as neighbours. I can get on perfectly well with my neighbours and buy/sell things with them if I want to. This doesn't mean I want to pool all my money with them. I like to have some savings whereas my neighbour may want to be a spendthrift and blow all his cash. We can still co-operate over many things if we are out of the EU. Leaving doesn't mean we cut-off all ties. When I listen to "project fear" people they seem to suggest this is what will happen which is complete nonsense. +1 Several tricks really. Edited June 21, 2016 by Sheeple Splinter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wonderpup Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 (edited) Euro by 2026 of we vote leave;2016 - vote leave 2018 - realise negotiations are difficult, pound loses reserve status 2020 - figure brexit was not such a great idea 2024 - start renegotiating reentry 2026 - EURO. I admire your optimistic assumption that the Euro will last untill 2026- by then Greece would be a smoldering ruin and Southern Europe a failed state within a failed state. I think it was william hague who described being in the Euro as like being trapped in burning building without exits- a phrophetic description indeed. Stranglely Hauge is now advocating we remain in the EU. What is it about the Elites- do they perform ritual lobotomies as a rite of passage or something? Perfectly sensible people seem to turn into morons as soon as they gain any place at the top tables of power. Edited June 21, 2016 by wonderpup Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheeple Splinter Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 I think you are right about the long term future of the EU but in a storm people tend to hunker down in the hope it will pass- so if people are too scared to exit now when things are relatively calm it's hard to imagine that any referendum would deliver a leave vote if the EU were unravelling with all the financial turmoil this would bring- the cry would go up-as it already is from some places- for more EU, more integration, more top down control in order to deal with the situation. ... Thanks, interesting read. If Greece had an economy similar to the UK's, do you think they would have voted to leave? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stormymonday_2011 Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 The "leave" camp have really missed a trick in their campaign. Remainers have used fear as their main weapon ie fear of the consequences of leaving. But what about fear of the consequences of remaining? Some countries , Greece especially, have had a terrible time since joining the EU and the euro. If we stay in, will we not possibly be drawn into the disaster which is brewing in the EU? We signed up originally for a trade agreement. I like to think of it in terms of how we get on as neighbours. I can get on perfectly well with my neighbours and buy/sell things with them if I want to. This doesn't mean I want to pool all my money with them. I like to have some savings whereas my neighbour may want to be a spendthrift and blow all his cash. We can still co-operate over many things if we are out of the EU. Leaving doesn't mean we cut-off all ties. When I listen to "project fear" people they seem to suggest this is what will happen which is complete nonsense. The history of Europe has a number of examples of political organisations starting out with ideas of liberty and cooperation amongst equals but ending up as Imperial projects. The French Revolution perhaps being the most famous. In that respect the EU becoming the Empire of Fear is par for the course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
long time lurking Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 That's why I think Brexit may win. It provides an excuse for the economies of the world to use for the next financial implosion as opposed to the real causes built up over the last decade. Then the markets will twist the screw on the UK, and in 10 years time we'll be back in and deeper than ever before. Job done. The end goal is a fully integrated federal Europe zone, expanded on what is it today geographically with countries reduced to states within what effectively will be one 'country'. You may be right on the end goal as in what the plan is but it`s never going to happen in my lifetime and probably not in my childrens and that's if the EU holds itself together The treatment of the southern states are all the proof that's needed concerning the chances of a fiscal and political union Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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