Uk To Make Debt Pledge Ahead Of Scotland Referendum

[AThirdWay]

That's not a very credible report. For one thing, what help could any other country give, in the event that Westminster wanted to influence the outcome of the vote? I seem to remember some talk of "co-operation" with Madrid for similar alleged reasons relating to Catalonia.

For Scotland, the date is set, there's going to be a referendum, only media sources regularly read by Scots can hope to change anything now. I doubt if Spanish or Russian agents will be infiltrating Scots society spreading scare stories.

If the Scots don't have the courage to go for it, that will be their own stupid fault, I hope that they will be brave enough.

I loathe the current UK government for many reasons, but I think criticism of anyone must be justified and have at least some credibility.

You underestimate the power of the MSM. With regard to Spain, here's a sample of what was published, and fine examples of spin they are!

The BEEB

The Guardian

The Hootsman

Of course, Rajoy was directly addressing the Catalan's, not Scotland. In fact, the Spanish foriegn minister had already confirmed that Spain WOULD NOT veto Scottish membership.

My link

That is the way Bitter Together work, lies and spin, supported by the MSM.

Edit: I know you don't need it proved, but here's a fine dissection of an horrendously spun Daily Record story.

It's all bo11ocks!

Edited January 15, 2014 by AThirdWay

[swissy_fit]

Hmm.

I see what you mean, but you'd like to think that for something as important as independence the Scots electorate would take some time and inform themselves properly, the country isn't made up of Rab C clones.

How many people are going to be taken in by rubbish media scare stories that Scotland will be attacked by dragons if it votes yes? Not many, I hope.

If ccc is to be believed,(ie that the country is full of workshy neds) a couple of stories saying that welfare will be cut in an independent Scotland will be enough to make the No majority certain.

[Sour Mash]

You're welcome to your point of view but it doesn't match what the bond traders I work with tell me. Basically their view is that, either way, Scotland will be a small player with no track record that large bond investors will steer clear of and, regardless of debt load, the markets would be extremely cautious lending to any country that felt it could walk away from its debts whatever the circumstances. I personally don't care - I think taking over the whole debt would be a small price to pay to get rid of Gordon Brown and his friends - but debt markets certainly do see this as an issue.

Any country - large or small - could default on its debts.

And being small and having defaulted on its debts hasn't barred Iceland from ever being able to borrow again.

On the other hand, Ireland which had whopping debts after it socialised its banking sector's losses but didn't default and pledged not to, found itself having to tap the Troika after debt markets became more or less inaccessible to it.

[ccc]

I never said Scotland is full of the workshy. I just said there are a hell of a lot of them - and more than i think a small country could cope with or support.

I personally know very few people who will vote yes. Those who want to vote yes tend to be far more vocal in this than those who do not. Hence why i imagine many outside Scotland think we may vote yes. Whereas up here most don't really think there is a chance.

This thread is a good example. Look how much input those Scots planning to vote no have input - compared to those who plan to vote yes. Its quite typical of much of the chat i see and hear. The silent majority don't really feel there is much to get excited about or try to persuade people of. The silent no majority in Scotland is huge imo.

The bookies are a good example. They usually don't tend to give away free money. They are almost certain the vote will be a resounding no.

Edited January 15, 2014 by ccc

[AThirdWay]

Any country - large or small - could default on its debts.

And being small and having defaulted on its debts hasn't barred Iceland from ever being able to borrow again.

On the other hand, Ireland which had whopping debts after it socialised its banking sector's losses but didn't default and pledged not to, found itself having to tap the Troika after debt markets became more or less inaccessible to it.

Iceland is an interesting example. With rich natural resources, a fiscal surplus over the previous 5 years and no debt, is it reasonable to assume that an independent Scotland would recover quicker and more robustly?

What about the rUK, with a deficit jumping from 4.5% to almost 10%, and debt at around 100% of GDP? How do you think that will end up, given that bond rates are already increasing?

Salmond tells us it's in everyone's interests for Scotland and the rUK to reach an agreement. I disagree, but am willing to go along with the plan for two reasons. The collapse of the rUK WOULD hurt an independent Scotland due to the volume of trade between us, and I'd hate to see the population of the UK brought low (apart from a select few!). Believe it or not, I like the Welsh/English/Irish!

[AThirdWay]

I never said Scotland is full of the workshy. I just said there are a hell of a lot of them - and more than i think a small country could cope with or support.

I personally know very few people who will vote yes. Those who want to vote yes tend to be far more vocal in this than those who do not. Hence why i imagine many outside Scotland think we may vote yes. Whereas up here most don't really think there is a chance.

This thread is a good example. Look how much input those Scots planning to vote no have input - compared to those who plan to vote yes. Its quite typical of much of the chat i see and hear. The silent majority don't really feel there is much to get excited about or try to persuade people of. The silent no majority in Scotland is huge imo.

The bookies are a good example. They usually don't tend to give away free money. They are almost certain the vote will be a resounding no.

I've said it before ccc. More is spent on welfare, per head, in the rUK than in Scotland.

Your right in that YES supporters do tend to be more vocal. Hardly surprising given the almost blanket MSM support for the union, is it? Dundee has SNP MSP's and council, so it's fair to say there's likely to be more support for independence here than in some other parts of the country. Perhaps that's why you don't meet many YES supporters?

Remind me again, 7 months away from the elections in 2011, what were the odds of an SNP government in Scotland?

[ccc]

Indeed there are definite areas of stronger support in Scotland for yes or no.

Edinburgh would probably be very much on the no side.

What many people don't know is that in general elections the conservatives often get over 20% of the vote.

For the yes vote to have any chance - the middle 'undecided' ground will have to swing en masse to the yes side.

I just see no way that is going to happen. Not impossible of course - but hugely unlikely. The vast majority of people are scared of change - that's pretty much all people need to know as why the most like vote next this year will be a no.

[AThirdWay]

The vast majority of people are scared of change

Agreed

[swissy_fit]

The more I think about it, the keener I am that the Scots do this, and do it well.

Someone has to break the banker's yoke.

It would be worse than the status quo if they did it badly, however - the danger is that they confuse the perceived enemy(Westminster) with the real enemy, the financial elite who can just as well be Scots as English.

[Sour Mash]

The more I think about it, the keener I am that the Scots do this, and do it well.

Someone has to break the banker's yoke.

It would be worse than the status quo if they did it badly, however - the danger is that they confuse the perceived enemy(Westminster) with the real enemy, the financial elite who can just as well be Scots as English.

I think you'd see very quickly that a nice cushy establishment would develop in Scotland, with exactly the same policies aimed at enriching the elite members of said establishment at the expense of the wider public that are already pursued in the UK at large. Same as the Republic of Ireland.

The only way any of that will ever change would be if the public at large (of any typical 'democracy') were to defy their habits of centuries and take a very keen interest in getting out to vote and scrutinising who/what they vote for. Can't see that happening without a hell of a lot of agitation.