Weight Watchers Shares Fall 19% After Sudden Explosion In Free Aps Hits Demand.

[Nuggets Mahoney]

Just play vollyball on some Californian beach like me, climb tree's, run up mountains bare foot and eat grass fed beef like me and you will look like me.

You won't.

[@contradevian]

I thought the archive footage of the interview with Doctor Atkins was interesting. One of the few people that almost nailed it.

He was right in his comments about the US Government were "bread pushers" and likening white flour to sugar. Spot on in my opinion.

But the problem for many despite Weight Watchers is that dieters are continuously bombarded with misinformation and bad science about what is supposedly healthy and what is bad.

For example butter is "bad" but "grains" are wholesome healthy and "natural." (There is nothing natural about them).

[mfp123]

For sure. Try stuff, see what works for you.

Like I've said way back in this thread, and others, I don't dispute that regular exercise and avoiding excess make sense for all sorts reasons.

What is at issue here is posters failing to entertain the possibility that the types of food people are eating may also affect whether they put on weight on not.

I share the experience of another poster on this thread. When I was more carb-reliant than I am today I would get headaches and feel uncomfortable if I skipped a meal. Now that I eat much fewer carbs that doesn't happen. Repeating myself again, 5,000 calories of steak do not hit my system in the same way as 5,000 calories of wine gums.

the type of food you eat affects whether you put weight on or not because of the amount of calories they contain.

for carbs : calories per 100g

bread 290

cereal 350+

biscuits 400+

flour 366

cake 350

crisps 550

sugar 400

pastry 380

rice 111

potato 77

pasta 150

a carb isnt just a carb. it depends what type of carb. you wont get fat eating rice and pasta. if you are cutting processed carbs its because you are cutting massive amounts of calories.

protein:

chicken 172

pork 190

beef 332

fish 87

veg

brocolli 34

lettuce 15

cauliflower 25

because all this is per 100g you can eat the same amount of all these foods but consume vastly different amounts of energy.

as you can see, processed carbs are extremely high and unnatural in calories which is why cutting carbs helps so much.

[ccc]

No, because not everyone is like you.

You get this all the time in the "Paleosphere." So called Guru's who are young fit, athletic, never been fat, dispensing dietary advise largely to an audience who are anything but.

Just play vollyball on some Californian beach like me, climb tree's, run up mountains bare foot and eat grass fed beef like me and you will look like me.

You won't.

I disagree. Whilst we are all a bit different - its nowhere near as much as people think.

Where is the 28 stone masai mara in the pics we see ?

Where is the 28 stone south American Indian ?

In fact just look back at school and work pics from the UK in the 50's. Where is the 28 stone person there ?

Have a look at every other species out there - do you get male lions 'naturally' 4 times the weight of others ?

Its just excuses. 'i am big boned'

No they are not. They are just fat. (bar a very very few rare cases)

[@contradevian]

I disagree. Whilst we are all a bit different - its nowhere near as much as people think.

Where is the 28 stone masai mara in the pics we see ?

Where is the 28 stone south American Indian ?

In fact just look back at school and work pics from the UK in the 50's. Where is the 28 stone person there ?

Have a look at every other species out there - do you get male lions 'naturally' 4 times the weight of others ?

Its just excuses. 'i am big boned'

No they are not. They are just fat. (bar a very very few rare cases)

Oh God, I'm finished with this thread.

[ccc]

For sure. Try stuff, see what works for you.

Like I've said way back in this thread, and others, I don't dispute that regular exercise and avoiding excess make sense for all sorts reasons.

What is at issue here is posters failing to entertain the possibility that the types of food people are eating may also affect whether they put on weight on not.

I share the experience of another poster on this thread. When I was more carb-reliant than I am today I would get headaches and feel uncomfortable if I skipped a meal. Now that I eat much fewer carbs that doesn't happen. Repeating myself again, 5,000 calories of steak do not hit my system in the same way as 5,000 calories of wine gums.

I agree that certain foods may not be great for you. However they don't 'make you fat'

If you are trying to lose weight then yes it may make sense to cut them out. However it is not a necessity to do so.

The way i see it. Through being on planet for hundreds of thousands of years we have evolved to do a few things.

One is see food as necessary and get as much of it when we need it as we can.

Another to move about a lot and exercise every day.

I just think any weight loss plan based on the first is basically putting yourself against our evolutionary desires. And so will be extremely difficult to succeed at. Far easier to concentrate on the second. As you are just pushing yourself to do something that we have evolved to do.

Its a no brainer for me.

[ccc]

the type of food you eat affects whether you put weight on or not because of the amount of calories they contain.

for carbs : calories per 100g

bread 290

cereal 350+

biscuits 400+

flour 366

cake 350

crisps 550

sugar 400

pastry 380

rice 111

potato 77

pasta 150

a carb isnt just a carb. it depends what type of carb. you wont get fat eating rice and pasta. if you are cutting processed carbs its because you are cutting massive amounts of calories.

protein:

chicken 172

pork 190

beef 332

fish 87

veg

brocolli 34

lettuce 15

cauliflower 25

because all this is per 100g you can eat the same amount of all these foods but consume vastly different amounts of energy.

as you can see, processed carbs are extremely high and unnatural in calories which is why cutting carbs helps so much.

excellent point. As i said before - something like sugar doesn't make you fat. It just makes it much easier to get fat.

Very different thing.

[Nuggets Mahoney]

the type of food you eat affects whether you put weight on or not because of the amount of calories they contain.

Speaking as someone who eats a shed load of cheese (371), butter (717) and olive oil (884) that's not working for me.

You could argue that eating the kinds of food I do somehow make me feel fuller, sooner, but you didn't.

As it happens, I come from an extended Italian family (active hill farmer types) which is why I am quietly confident a pasta/ polenta heavy diet is not a passport to being gut-free in my middle to later years.

In my family people start off like the bloke on the right and end up like the bloke on the left, along with Type II diabetes...

And I can assure you that the bloke on the left didn't spend much time on his bum watching X-factor.

The calorie is a calorie argument also avoids the common experience I mentioned above of people who switch away from carbs losing those headaches/ tetchiness that drive them into grazing when they haven't eaten for an hour or two.

[ccc]

Oh God, I'm finished with this thread.

Why ?

It is quite amazing to see a street picture from the UK of that time. Or a group of miners - or a group of kids.

Apart from height - everyone looked amazingly similar. Apart from the very very odd exception.

[Nuggets Mahoney]

Why ?

It is quite amazing to see a street picture from the UK of that time. Or a group of miners - or a group of kids.

Apart from height - everyone looked amazingly similar. Apart from the very very odd exception.

And that observation proves what exactly?

As I recall people were eating more 'unhealthy', fat-laden food back then; corned beef, dripping, oxtail, food fried in lard...

Nowadays we have loads more alleged healthy options and there are tubby folk everywhere.

Thin folk in the past 'prove' my point just as much as they 'prove' yours.

[@contradevian]

The calorie is a calorie argument also avoids the common experience I mentioned above of people who switch away from carbs losing those headaches/ tetchiness that drive them into grazing when they haven't eaten for an hour or two.

You are wasting time talking sense on here.

Repeat after me...

"calories in, calories out innit"

[Alberta Tatlock]

I agree that certain foods may not be great for you. However they don't 'make you fat'

I agree with many of the points that you make through this thread, especially regarding exercise, however certain foods do make humans fat. Or more specifically what is contained in certain foods make humans fat.

Humans evolved with the ability to store fat because when we were hunter gatherers food was not always guaranteed so the body developed the ability to store fat to see it through the leaner times.

It is that ability to store fat which is stimulated by the contents on certain foods.

Monosodium Glutamate is a prime example. When fat mice are required for experiments they are fed MSG to induce weight gain.

There are other additives in foods that have the same effect and these are not widely known by the general population and, even if they were, the ingredients can be 'hidden' behind complicated names. That's if ingredients are listed at all.

Food companies also know what to add to foods to make them more addictive in just the same way that cigarette companies did back in the 50's.

I think it really comes down to people being educated in what is really contained in the food they eat, and how it afffects them.

The two documentaries I mentioned back in this thread are eye-opening, or at least they were to me.

[Nuggets Mahoney]

Where is the 28 stone masai mara in the pics we see ?

A people whose traditional diet is raw meat, milk and blood

Quite low carb and not at all healthy according to current received wisdom, wouldn't you say?

[ccc]

And that observation proves what exactly?

As I recall people were eating more 'unhealthy', fat-laden food back then; corned beef, dripping, oxtail, food fried in lard...

Nowadays we have loads more alleged healthy options and there are tubby folk everywhere.

Thin folk in the past 'prove' my point just as much as they 'prove' yours.

I was responding to the point that we are all very different and that not everyone was like me. In regards to weight and general fitness .

I disagree. We are all very similar.

[ccc]

I agree with many of the points that you make through this thread, especially regarding exercise, however certain foods do make humans fat. Or more specifically what is contained in certain foods make humans fat.

Humans evolved with the ability to store fat because when we were hunter gatherers food was not always guaranteed so the body developed the ability to store fat to see it through the leaner times.

It is that ability to store fat which is stimulated by the contents on certain foods.

Monosodium Glutamate is a prime example. When fat mice are required for experiments they are fed MSG to induce weight gain.

There are other additives in foods that have the same effect and these are not widely known by the general population and, even if they were, the ingredients can be 'hidden' behind complicated names. That's if ingredients are listed at all.

Food companies also know what to add to foods to make them more addictive in just the same way that cigarette companies did back in the 50's.

I think it really comes down to people being educated in what is really contained in the food they eat, and how it afffects them.

The two documentaries I mentioned back in this thread are eye-opening, or at least they were to me.

ok good points. So why are there people who can eat all this stuff and not get fat ?

If these foods 'made you fat' then everyone that eat them on a regular basis would be fat. They are not.

Its simple facts like this that just can't get me to understand and agree with the point that certain foods make you fat. Because for many many people they clearly do not.

[Mr Jib Fingers]

So what are the foods to avoid?

I try not to eat sugar, but eat loads of bread, potatoes, rice and pasta. Are they to be avoided too?

[ccc]

Ps as for foods being addictive. I can see that. It would make you eat more - which could result in you adding weight. This makes a bit of logical sense.

Then again - all food is addictive to us - its what we are born to search for and consume.

[ccc]

A people whose traditional diet is raw meat, milk and blood

Quite low carb and not at all healthy according to current received wisdom, wouldn't you say?

There are many many other examples of populations with very similar body shapes who have different diets.

I would say activity is the common theme rather than food. Although amount of food consumed is clearly going to be a factor.

[ccc]

Funnily enough, obesity amongst animals in zoo'z is quite a problem.

http://www.newsbiscu...-obese-animals/

Pets too of course:

Well for zoos you can be fairly certain the keepers will ensure a diet similar to the wild will be adhered to. It is their job afterall.

So therefore we can only assume activity is the issue in their weight gain.

For pets - could be one or the other or a combination.

[ccc]

So what are the foods to avoid?

I try not to eat sugar, but eat loads of bread, potatoes, rice and pasta. Are they to be avoided too?

****** knows

But anything we have not eaten 'naturally' until recently would probably be a logical move.

I have cut down on certain things - but nowt to do with weight.

Right the sun is out in Edinburgh and pubs are open to 5am.

Been for a swim and a hill run today. Off now to gorge myself on spicy Korean food and have somewhere between 10 and 15 pints.

The above diet is probably not best recommended.

[@contradevian]

There are many many other examples of populations with very similar body shapes who have different diets.

I would say activity is the common theme rather than food. Although amount of food consumed is clearly going to be a factor.

"I would say" is not science.

[Mrs Bear]

And that observation proves what exactly?

As I recall people were eating more 'unhealthy', fat-laden food back then; corned beef, dripping, oxtail, food fried in lard...

Nowadays we have loads more alleged healthy options and there are tubby folk everywhere.

Thin folk in the past 'prove' my point just as much as they 'prove' yours.

yes, they were eating lots of 'unhealthy' food, but the majority didn't have cars, they walked, and there was a lot more physical labour. people burned up a lot more calories than many do nowadays.

[Nuggets Mahoney]

So what are the foods to avoid?

I try not to eat sugar, but eat loads of bread, potatoes, rice and pasta. Are they to be avoided too?

Are you overweight? Do you have any blood sugar issues? Maybe loads of bread, potatoes, rice and pasta works for you and your lifestyle.

Weight issues aside, I personally avoid anything laden with artificial sweeteners, MSG or MSG-like additives. I do eat some processed food but over the years I've gradually lost the taste for it. Just the smell of Pringles alone makes me feel queasy. I used to merrily scarf down family bags of gummy sweets. If I tried that now I suspect I'd hurl.

But that's just me. We're all different. We live different lifestyles. Impo there's no substitute for DYOR and experimenting (in moderation) and seeing what works for you.

edit: if you're interested in this subject I'd suggest listening to what someone like Gary Taubes has to say...

then hunt around for critiques of Taubes' thesis, they are out there, and weigh it all up.

[mfp123]

the reason the msg rats gained weight was because they ate more. putting sugar on food makes me want to eat more of it. give me salted chips vs plain chips and ill want to eat more. the ultimate food additive is sugar.

food is just energy. our body converts excess energy into fat as a reserve. if we have an energy deficit it will burn the fat because thats what its there for.

there is no conspiracy theory as to why people get fat. there is no substitute to you yourself regulating the amount of food and energy you physically consume and burn off.

japan has one of the lowest obesity rates in the world. their staple diet is rice, fish and vegetables. they are all low calorie foods. its no coincidence. countries that eat fewer calories are thin. countries that eat a lot of calories are fat.

people need to stop pretending they dont know why people get fat, as though its some kind of hidden science.

i mean some people on here have been arguing that obese people eating less wont work because it will slow down their metabolism, and that neither will exercising because it might make them more hungry and tired. really? these are really pitiful excuses.

its basically dancing around the problem when they know what the problem is, but they wont admit it to themselves.

[@contradevian]

the reason the msg rats gained weight was because they ate more. putting sugar on food makes me want to eat more of it. give me salted chips vs plain chips and ill want to eat more. the ultimate food additive is sugar.

food is just energy. our body converts excess energy into fat as a reserve. if we have an energy deficit it will burn the fat because thats what its there for.

there is no conspiracy theory as to why people get fat. there is no substitute to you yourself regulating the amount of food and energy you physically consume and burn off.

japan has one of the lowest obesity rates in the world. their staple diet is rice, fish and vegetables. they are all low calorie foods. its no coincidence. countries that eat fewer calories are thin. countries that eat a lot of calories are fat.

people need to stop pretending they dont know why people get fat, as though its some kind of hidden science.

i mean some people on here have been arguing that obese people eating less wont work because it will slow down their metabolism, and that neither will exercising because it might make them more hungry and tired. really? these are really pitiful excuses.

its basically dancing around the problem when they know what the problem is, but they wont admit it to themselves.

Clearly you have solved the worlds obesity epidemic and will now make a fortune.