Car Insurance Anecdotal

[Injin]

All rather amusing from someone who earned her living off the back of other people's taxation.

File in the nonsense bin with every other politician.

The quote is spot on, there is no such thing as society.

But of course thatcher was a massive hypocrite and you are right to ignore politicians. She was saying the right thing to sell statism, that's all. Didn't believe a word of it herself. But you can't disimiss statements that way, their truth value isn't anything to do with the issuer.

Edited October 8, 2011 by Injin

[_w_]

The quote is spot on, there is no such thing as society.

But of course thatcher was a massive hypocrite and you are right to ignore politicians. She was saying the right thing to sell statism, that's all. Didn't believe a word of it herself. But you can't disimiss statements that way, their truth value isn't anything to do with the issuer.

Society is good business. The relative's neighbours have, for all intents and purposes, gone back to a feral state. Now they are all paying for it.

[RufflesTheGuineaPig]

So are you trying to suggest that I should just eat the loss of a £20k car?

I can't see theives stealing a 20k Jag to order, as you wont get much Jag for £20k. Must be 3-5 years old, and theives stealing to order will generally go for cars under a year old.

[Injin]

Society is good business. The relative's neighbours have, for all intents and purposes, gone back to a feral state. Now they are all paying for it.

No, there is no such thing as society.

If you believe and act as if there is, you'll get ruled by psychopaths and robbed blind by your neighbours.

Self interest can lead you to voluntarily band with others, but the idea of some mythical link beyond the chosen is simply an anasthetic so you can't feel leeches.

[_w_]

No, there is no such thing as society.

If you believe and act as if there is, you'll get ruled by psychopaths and robbed blind by your neighbours.

Self interest can lead you to voluntarily band with others, but the idea of some mythical link beyond the chosen is simply an anasthetic so you can't feel leeches.

I agree society is not a natural construct if that is what you mean. It's a choice that can do a lot of good, and a lot of harm if we allow it to be abused. If well done then the benefits are enormous.

I think If you follow the 'everyone for himself principle' then your country becomes so weak that it ends up being prey to another country with the kind of society that is run by a psychopath. I see the state of weakness and depravation in the West and the relative strength of China and worry about what is going to happen to us.

Events such as CEOs drive to outsource production and hand over technological know how to the Chinese for the sake of a few quarters' bonuses are great examples IMO of that fact. The end result is people are jobless, the country is in recession, public services (I know your view on that but I like them) can't be financed because state revenues are dwindling, etc. The end result is everybody is shafted in the long run because it was advantageous to a handful of people to tell themselves that society was of no use.The same people will then bitterly complain because taxes are going up and the police is not doing its job of protecting them...

<Edit to add: on society being a natural construct, I hear increasingly about how a societal / communal human trait had a strong evolutionary impact. So may be it is natural.>

Edited October 8, 2011 by _w_

[Injin]

I agree society is not a natural construct if that is what you mean. It's a choice that can do a lot of good, and a lot of harm if we allow it to be abused. If well done then the benefits are enormous.

I think If you follow the 'everyone for himself principle' then your country becomes so weak that it ends up being prey to another country with the kind of society that is run by a psychopath. I see the state of weakness and depravation in the West and the relative strength of China and worry about what is going to happen to us.

Events such as CEOs drive to outsource production and hand over technological know how to the Chinese for the sake of a few quarters' bonuses are great examples IMO of that fact. The end result is people are jobless, the country is in recession, public services (I know your view on that but I like them) can't be financed because state revenues are dwindling, etc. The end result is everybody is shafted in the long run because it was advantageous to a handful of people to tell themselves that society was of no use.The same people will then bitterly complain because taxes are going up and the police is not doing its job of protecting them...

<Edit to add: on society being a natural construct, I hear increasingly about how a societal / communal human trait had a strong evolutionary impact. So may be it is natural.>

There no countries.

There are no societies.

There are no groups.

While you think there are you will be ruled by psychopaths and robbed blind by others under colour of there being some group or other. It's a prisoners dilemma situation - while you are acting to be fair to the group, there are others who won't due to it being only in your head and nowhere else and that means they can stack resources up (and therefore social power) faster than you can. Therefore you wind up being ruled by psychopaths.

[_w_]

There no countries.

There are no societies.

There are no groups.

While you think there are you will be ruled by psychopaths and robbed blind by others under colour of there being some group or other. It's a prisoners dilemma situation - while you are acting to be fair to the group, there are others who won't due to it being only in your head and nowhere else and that means they can stack resources up (and therefore social power) faster than you can. Therefore you wind up being ruled by psychopaths.

I've learned to give your views a good deal of respect but I refuse to accept that. I'm probably being naive.

[Injin]

I've learned to give your views a good deal of respect but I refuse to accept that. I'm probably being naive.

Well it's a big thing to accept, it means accepting that some or maybe all of your family relationships are predator and prey ones, amongst other things.

[Georgia O'Keeffe]

I've learned to give your views a good deal of respect but I refuse to accept that. I'm probably being naive.

You can mathematically prove countries dont exist using the 4 colour theorem

Edited October 8, 2011 by Tamara De Lempicka

[_w_]

it means accepting that some or maybe all of your family relationships are predator and prey ones, amongst other things.

I know that but I think there is more to us than that. It's as much a faith as anything.

[_w_]

You can mathematically prove countries dont exist using the 4 colour theorem

I thought you were making these up but googled it anyway. They exist!

What's wrong with Dijkstra's algorithm?

[Georgia O'Keeffe]

I thought you were making these up but googled it anyway. They exist!

What's wrong with Dijkstra's algorithm?

thats more relevant for working out the shortest route across/out of a country that doesnt exist

Anyway if all countries can be represented by only 4 colours it follows that they are lying about the other 150+ and if they are lying about them its highly likely that they are probably lying about the other four aswell

QED / Job Done

Edited October 8, 2011 by Tamara De Lempicka

[_w_]

Well it's a big thing to accept, it means accepting that some or maybe all of your family relationships are predator and prey ones, amongst other things.

Just to see if I can defend my position.

Two people act in their own self interest but decide to cooperate to benefit from synergies. Isn't that society?

[The Ayatollah Buggeri]

I can't see theives stealing a 20k Jag to order, as you wont get much Jag for £20k. Must be 3-5 years old, and theives stealing to order will generally go for cars under a year old.

Sounds about right. He bought it when it was about a year old, probably around 2-3 years ago. He'd spent his entire life commuting and driving the kids around in unremarkable Volvos and Peugeots and, aged in his early 70s, decided that he'd like something nice for what will probably be his last decade of serious driving. Whoever nicked it did a very professional job: they were asleep in the house, probably less than 20 feet from where the car was parked, when the job was done. It was the policeman that came round the following morning who opined that it had been stolen to order, I'm guessing based on his experience in showing up at people's houses, commiserating, being given a cup of coffee and reciprocating with a crime number for the insurance in the past. Maybe the recession strangling the sales of new luxury cars has created a market for slightly older bent ones?

[Georgia O'Keeffe]

Sounds about right. He bought it when it was about a year old, probably around 2-3 years ago. He'd spent his entire life commuting and driving the kids around in unremarkable Volvos and Peugeots and, aged in his early 70s, decided that he'd like something nice for what will probably be his last decade of serious driving. Whoever nicked it did a very professional job: they were asleep in the house, probably less than 20 feet from where the car was parked, when the job was done. It was the policeman that came round the following morning who opined that it had been stolen to order, I'm guessing based on his experience in showing up at people's houses, commiserating, being given a cup of coffee and reciprocating with a crime number for the insurance in the past. Maybe the recession strangling the sales of new luxury cars has created a market for slightly older bent ones?

will we see a remake of gone in 60 seconds with Nic Cage stealing Ford Capris and Beige Allegros?

Edited October 8, 2011 by Tamara De Lempicka

[guernseyguy]

A relative had his Jaguar stolen from its parking space on the roadside outside his house in a leafy village inhabited by upper middle-class commuters to Leicester last week. It happened overnight and the police are pretty certain that it was stolen to order.

A couple of nights ago they were round for drinks with someone a few doors down, and explained what had happened. Their hosts' reaction was to opine that it served him right for not keeping the car in his garage overnight, and to express dismay that if my uncle put an insurance claim in, the result would be increased premiums for everyone in the village (i.e. given that there are probably only around 50-60 households in the village, one claim for the total loss of a £20k car would be a black mark against that postcode and thus would hit them all). 'So are you trying to suggest that I should just eat the loss of a £20k car?', my uncle asked. 'Well, I wasn't quite putting it that strongly...', the neighbour replied.

This is the first time I've heard of this phenomenon - people trying to dissuade their neighbours from making insurance claims out of fear for their own premiums. However, I suppose it's just a logical extension of NIMBY-inspired opposition to planning applications in the anticipation that the development would lower the value of their property, campaigning for lower speed limits, greater police presence, etc. etc. Seems that there is no limit to some people's selfishness.

Upper middle-class commuters.....to Leicester???

[Si1]

Thanks for posting that, I had indeed never read the speech.

It's interesting because I fully agree with what she says in the first paragraph and the 'too far' argument. But the last statement does not fit in the context. There is a huge difference between saying there are abuses and saying the whole system should be destroyed. I think the obvious stands.

BTW, the 'lefty' stereotype. I can sympathise with the desire to annoy people with it, but it's weak and lazy.

I think Thatcher used a particular choice of words in order to effect a particular response - and succeeded

she was Prime Minister and trying to implement her desire - that people should not act apathetically in response to other people, this including, in particular, innocent children

since she wanted to roll back government then she could not do it by dictat, but instead tried to do it by media spin, by a bit of shocking prose

"there is no such thing as society" brought incredible notoriety but i am not sure if in particular it worked

however the overall sentiment - people should take responsiblity for themselves and also for their part in improving the lives of those around them - especially innocent children - and should not wait for the government or others to do it instead - I think WAS carried

[Si1]

Well it's a big thing to accept, it means accepting that some or maybe all of your family relationships are predator and prey ones, amongst other things.

fair piont

have you read The Origins of virtue by Matt Ridley, espouses something similar, extrapolating social patterns from The Selfish Gene

[Bootsox]

A relative had his Jaguar stolen from its parking space on the roadside outside his house in a leafy village inhabited by upper middle-class commuters to Leicester last week. It happened overnight and the police are pretty certain that it was stolen to order.

A couple of nights ago they were round for drinks with someone a few doors down, and explained what had happened. Their hosts' reaction was to opine that it served him right for not keeping the car in his garage overnight, and to express dismay that if my uncle put an insurance claim in, the result would be increased premiums for everyone in the village (i.e. given that there are probably only around 50-60 households in the village, one claim for the total loss of a £20k car would be a black mark against that postcode and thus would hit them all). 'So are you trying to suggest that I should just eat the loss of a £20k car?', my uncle asked. 'Well, I wasn't quite putting it that strongly...', the neighbour replied.

This is the first time I've heard of this phenomenon - people trying to dissuade their neighbours from making insurance claims out of fear for their own premiums. However, I suppose it's just a logical extension of NIMBY-inspired opposition to planning applications in the anticipation that the development would lower the value of their property, campaigning for lower speed limits, greater police presence, etc. etc. Seems that there is no limit to some people's selfishness.

Thread seemed to go off track but very interesting anecdote.

[The Knimbies who say No]

Thread seemed to go off track but very interesting anecdote.

Indeed. Maybe the neighbours were joking and the humour didn't come across well. I hope so, what else would they expect of a reasonable individual in your Uncle's situation?

Edited October 17, 2011 by cheeznbreed