If Europe Goes Argentina

[pope]

Real Estate is an illiquid asset. As in, you can't sell it at the click of a mouse - it takes time, effort and money to buy or sell it.

Real Estate is a punt when you buy it speculatively. I appreciate l may have offended your sound investment strategy with gambling speak, but generally if you speculate in a higher risk environment in exchange for higher returns - the overall outcome is more like a game of chance.

Real Estate is a credit based asset. The majority of the purchase price of a house is typically borrowed by the buyer. In Argentina few have access to credit and landlords and BTL investors by proxy - foreign or otherwise (is this your angle?) do nicely arbitraging the credit worthiness of the less fortunate.

Argentina has no (should have said CLEARLY) discernible future. i.e. its uncertain, its not predictable, the risks are difficult to quantify etc etc etc...The peso continues to lose value in recent years, there is no trust, and many are financially invisible. Generally real estate is traded in dollars, meaning that any prior middle classes earning peso's are now more interested in putting food on the table than buying a home.

Premium real estate (that wasn't overpriced prior to the collapse) did 'best'. Interestingly this is because at the end of the day the biggest asset people are trying to preserve is their lives. Nothing like a spot of peril to boost those safer choice areas eh?

Tell me more about your investments, where did the seed capital come from? Was it your Vulture fund?

quite.......argentina has no CLEARLY discernible future......bit like most of the world really at the moment...wouldn't you agree??? EU, US etc etc

You said real estate is "a CREDIT based illiquid asset in argentina". i Said it wasn't and it isn't!! but thank you for explaining the meaning of illiquid. I'll bear that in mind.

Yes of course its true i've made money " arbitraging the credit worthiness of the less fortunate". However, i took risks and put in hard work. This is generally how capitalism works...no? you take a risk and advantage of your position to make money off someone else. i'm not ashamed about that...sorry.

Can't quite work out if you are been serious or sarcastic when asking about my investments there. But in case you are. i bought a big victorian house in the UK circa 2003 and converted it into flats and sold them in 2005/6.Also for historical reasons i had long standing relationships with a number of offshore banks. so i hit them all up simultaneously for big loans. These banks have different lending criteria to uk high streets. i also formed fedeicomiso's (A very common trust agreement in argentina to buy real estate) with argie partners. in a nutshell i used my uk/offshore capital to come across as a bigger fish than i was. i then jumped in head first.

may i suggest you take a look at http://www.arelauquen.com/sitio/

[pope]

Obviously SA has the some of the highest crime and murder rates in the World. The odds of getting murdered is twenty times the UK, but there are ways to reduce risk, rape is very popular a third of SA men admit to it.

You can't tell what the Argentina crime rate is becuase its so bad they stopped publishing figures (and lack of faith in Police stops them even reporting it), although its apparently similar to SA since the crash, but without being so limited to the Townships.

peter your ranting is beginning to sound a bit silly. yes argentina and south america are more dangerous than the UK (they're also a hell of a lot more fun...but thats my opinion). but as another poster pointed out on this topic you're more likely to get your head kicked in on a night out in the UK than shot dead at the ATM in argentina. i don't know the exact statistics but i've spent literally years in south america and NEVER been robbed

just to go back to your previous post about my "hazy" posts. it was you (a person who has no first hand experience and seems to get his information from an obscure blog) that said argentina was HELL. i as someone who knows the country very well posted becuase i didn't agree with that. Admitedly i don't normally spend much time on forums, but i took Vested Interest to imply i was trying to persuade others to my opinion becuase i sought to gain something. This is not the case. If you had stated Argentina is not an economic role model i think your post would have had more credibilty. I personally would never describe a country as "Hell" that i haven't visited.

[pope]

peter your ranting is beginning to sound a bit silly. yes argentina and south america are more dangerous than the UK (they're also a hell of a lot more fun...but thats my opinion). but as another poster pointed out on this topic you're more likely to get your head kicked in on a night out in the UK than shot dead at the ATM in argentina. i don't know the exact statistics but i've spent literally years in south america and NEVER been robbed

just to go back to your previous post about my "hazy" posts. it was you (a person who has no first hand experience and seems to get his information from an obscure blog) that said argentina was HELL. i as someone who knows the country very well posted becuase i didn't agree with that. Admitedly i don't normally spend much time on forums, but i took Vested Interest to imply i was trying to persuade others to my opinion becuase i sought to gain something. This is not the case. If you had stated Argentina is not an economic role model i think your post would have had more credibilty. I personally would never describe a country as "Hell" that i haven't visited.

EDIT: ha ha ha "lack of faith in police stops people reporting crime" just like in the UK then

[88Crash]

Obviously SA has the some of the highest crime and murder rates in the World. The odds of getting murdered is twenty times the UK, but there are ways to reduce risk, rape is very popular a third of SA men admit to it.

You can't tell what the Argentina crime rate is becuase its so bad they stopped publishing figures (and lack of faith in Police stops them even reporting it), although its apparently similar to SA since the crash, but without being so limited to the Townships.

It all depends where you live - the fact is that most murders and especially rapes are done by blacks and the victims are also black, if that sounds like racism I make no apology

So, yes the odds are 20 times higher in certain areas but for people like me fortunate enough to live in a good area, the odds are a lot less, plus we are allowed to defend ourselves (unlike the UK)

Chances of me being glassed or stabbed by a chav are probably 20 times lower than in the UK, so swings and roundabouts

[Peter Hun]

It all depends where you live - the fact is that most murders and especially rapes are done by blacks and the victims are also black, if that sounds like racism I make no apology

So, yes the odds are 20 times higher in certain areas but for people like me fortunate enough to live in a good area, the odds are a lot less, plus we are allowed to defend ourselves (unlike the UK)

Chances of me being glassed or stabbed by a chav are probably 20 times lower than in the UK, so swings and roundabouts

I'll reply with (the brilliant logic) that I've lived in the Uk and never got stabbed and don't know anyone who has done. So it must be safe.

[pope]

I'll reply with (the brilliant logic) that I've lived in the Uk and never got stabbed and don't know anyone who has done. So it must be safe.

i think this is all getting a bit off topic but peter don't believe everything that you read about places....and there are lies, damns lies and statistics...there are pro's and con's about living in south africa, argentina and the uk, but do yourself a favour and gain some first hand experience before you start jumping to conclusions

[Peter Hun]

i think this is all getting a bit off topic but peter don't believe everything that you read about places....and there are lies, damns lies and statistics...there are pro's and con's about living in south africa, argentina and the uk, but do yourself a favour and gain some first hand experience before you start jumping to conclusions

You are right, I've heard some good stuff about rising proprty values in Baghdad and Kabul. 99.7% of American visitors come back from there without a scratch

Edited December 2, 2010 by Peter Hun

[pope]

You are right, I've heard some good stuff about rising proprty values in Baghdad and Kabul.

you didn't disappoint me...i had a wager to myself how long it would be until you mentioned those 2 countries (incidentally one of which i've visited and wouldn't desribe as hell...at least not then anyway). i'm really not that bothered by "rising property values" in argentina or anywhere else. i've made my money....falls or rises they'll always be further opportunities.....you've just got to roll with the punches.

to be honest i haven't got time to read up on all your previous posts....are you someone who thinks GREAT Britain is still one of the worlds best places to live? you obviously put crime very high on your criteria for determining "standard of living" but at the cost of everything else????

[Peter Hun]

you didn't disappoint me...i had a wager to myself how long it would be until you mentioned those 2 countries (incidentally one of which i've visited and wouldn't desribe as hell...at least not then anyway). i'm really not that bothered by "rising property values" in argentina or anywhere else. i've made my money....falls or rises they'll always be further opportunities.....you've just got to roll with the punches.

to be honest i haven't got time to read up on all your previous posts....are you someone who thinks GREAT Britain is still one of the worlds best places to live? you obviously put crime very high on your criteria for determining "standard of living" but at the cost of everything else????

You don't fail to disappoint.

I emigrated from the UK over a year ago. Might go back, off and on.

[pope]

You don't fail to disappoint.

I emigrated from the UK over a year ago. Might go back, off and on.

maybe you should update your location from "battersea" then.

where may i ask do you live. i'm genuinely interested...chances are i've been there.....

EDIT: ok ok so i see from previous posts you live in Poland (the crime free part presumably). yes i have been there. didn't excite me much....but i'm sure its got its good points. i could easy take your postion and get all excited about neo nazi thugs....like the media like to portray...but that would be narrow minded.

looking at your posts you sound pretty well versed in all these financial matters....trouble is it was these kind of people who we thought were masters of the universe only a couple of years ago......only for the tide to go out.....and we found out it was all blather and bravado

ok so this is enough now. like i said rubbish argentina, south africa if it pleases you or you could try to be a bit more open minded????????????

Edited December 2, 2010 by pope

[Peter Hun]

maybe you should update your location from "battersea" then.

where may i ask do you live. i'm genuinely interested...chances are i've been there.....

EDIT: ok ok so i see from previous posts you live in Poland (the crime free part presumably). yes i have been there. didn't excite me much....but i'm sure its got its good points.

I've updated my profile and no of course its not crime free, but most of the trouble comes from the English stag night drunks (apparently, not seen anything myself.)