Semenya Tests As 'inter Gender'

[Daft Boy]

If told to go fook herself she probably could

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/athletics/8249948.stm

If she has male and female sexual organs why are further checks needed ?

Great future as a porn star ?

[Executive Sadman]

If told to go fook herself she probably could

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/athletics/8249948.stm

If she has male and female sexual organs why are further checks needed ?

Great future as a porn star ?

I fear youre right.

We havent seen or heard the last of Seimen-ya

[Executive Sadman]

fucme you already put it in the title. godamn stupid long words spelling

edit: damn more spellingl.

[Guest Skinty]

If told to go fook herself she probably could

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/athletics/8249948.stm

If she has male and female sexual organs why are further checks needed ?

Great future as a porn star ?

You're assuming that she does have both male and sexual organs. It might be that she has some abnormalities of her chromosones for example.

Otherwise why would it take so long to test her?

[Guest KingCharles1st]

the true test for womanhood is simple- ask her how many pairs of shoes she has.

[Guest Barebear]

You're assuming that she does have both male and sexual organs. It might be that she has some abnormalities of her chromosones for example.

Otherwise why would it take so long to test her?

Yeh good point if she has meat and veg swinging there anyone could have just had a squeeze.

[Guest Skinty]

Saw a link to this interesting article on the BBC site earlier on when I was reading about the blast furnace being re-ignited

Q&A: How do you define sex?

Reports suggest that gender tests on 800m world champion Caster Semenya have shown both male and female characteristics.

The results are still to be examined by a team of experts and it is likely to be a few weeks before the IAAF confirms the reports or announces further detail.

The delay highlights the complexity involved in diagnosing intersex conditions, an umbrella term for a wide range of developmental differences in the reproductive and sexual systems in the body.

How do you define sex?

Peter Bowen-Simpkins, spokesperson for the Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists and an expert in these conditions, explains there are four types of sex.

There is your phenotype, which is what you look like, your psychological sex, which is what you feel like and which usually the same as your phenotype and related to how you have been brought up.

There is also your gonadal sex which is whether you have ovaries or testicles and your chromosomal sex which is what combination of x or y chromosomes you have.

It is the chromosomes that direct, through the production of hormones, the development of a baby in the womb down a male or female route.

A diagnosis of an intersex condition is not just based on anatomy but is dependent on genetic, hormonal and other factors.

The World Health Organisation points out that gender is a social construct.

When people refer to gender testing, what they are really talking about is biological sex.

A person's view of their gender may be different from the biological sex assigned to them.

How common are intersex conditions?

The prevalence of different intersex conditions is difficult to estimate, partly because it depends on the definition.

But there are dozens of conditions which fall under this category.

And it is thought that around one in 3,000 UK children is born with a noticeable intersex disorder.

Some conditions may only become apparent later in life, if at all.

How do such conditions arise?

In the womb the chromosomes determine whether the foetus develops as a male or female by controlling what hormones are produced.

But errors can occur in this pathway.

For example, in a common condition called androgen insensitivity syndrome, the foetus has male chromosomes but it does not respond to testosterone.

As a result, the baby develops down the "default" female route.

The testes are there but usually do not descend and remain hidden in the body and the condition does not become apparent until adolescence when the girl does not start her period.

"It is all about how you define sex and the fact you have acquired a male chromosome which does not work is not what makes you male," says Mr Bowen-Simpkins.

"These girls are female to look at and feel very female."

In another condition called congenital adrenal hyperplasia, the foetus is female but produces lots of testosterone leading to the development of male genitalia.

What other conditions are there?

Other disorders include having an abnormal number sex chromosomes, including Turner syndrome, where individuals have one x chromosome and no y chromosome.

In Klinefelter's syndrome, males have two or more x chromosomes in addition to one y chromosome which leads to abnormal development of the testis and low levels of testosterone.

Men who inherit an extra y chromosome are usually taller than average and are prone to acne because of high levels of testosterone.

It has also been linked with learning difficulties and behavioural problems.

In some rarer conditions apparent from birth, decisions over what sex to assign the baby can be very difficult.

"I have looked after someone in the past couple of years who was diagnosed as female at birth who then turned out to be male and converted to male in their 30s," says Mr Bowen-Simpkins.

"They went on to produce sperm and father a baby through IVF."

[Daft Boy]

Pity you can't - but please try.

Are you offering

[Guest anorthosite]

So what have we learnt from this?

1. Not everything, including gender, is black and white.

2. Some HPCers are children who go all silly and giggly for any subject where they might get to say "willies" or "fannies"

What have we not learnt?

That this woman is a human being and deserves to be treated as such.

Some of the comments around here are pathetic . FFS, grow up :angry:

[eightiesgirly]

I feel so sorry for this poor girl, having to face any kind of gender problem is difficult enough, having to do so in the full glare of world wide publicity must be terrible. She's just eighteen too, a difficult enough age for most kids. I just hope she's getting the support she needs.

[Guest Skinty]

I feel so sorry for this poor girl, having to face any kind of gender problem is difficult enough, having to do so in the full glare of world wide publicity must be terrible. She's just eighteen too, a difficult enough age for most kids. I just hope she's getting the support she needs.

Agreed.

And before people go on about having both male and female biological male characteristics, she obviously identifies as a female and therefore must think like one.

It's like ridiculing an otherwise normal woman who suffers from a physical deformity.

[Gigantic Purple Slug]

Well at least she can beat the living s**t out of anyone that insults her.

She looks like she could go 4 rounds with Mike Tyson.

Can't believe they didn't insist on tests etc before she competed. If her coach was competent all this could have been sorted before the race outside the glare of publicity. Now it's a media circus.

[Daft Boy]

I intend to reserve judgement until I know for certain as to whether a misunderstood female turns out to be a cheating male or not and urge other posters to do the same and not get emotionally involved. The rules of the sport are quite clear and we must respect the final decision of the governing body.

[Guest theboltonfury]

So what have we learnt from this?

1. Not everything, including gender, is black and white.

2. Some HPCers are children who go all silly and giggly for any subject where they might get to say "willies" or "fannies"

What have we not learnt?

That this woman is a human being and deserves to be treated as such.

Some of the comments around here are pathetic . FFS, grow up :angry:

You don't feel this way about Anthea Turner.... Lots of fanny jokes about her!

However, I agree. The media, IOC and South Africa should leave her alone. I heard someone on the rdaio suggest they have a seperate hermaphrodite race!

[Guest anorthosite]

You don't feel this way about Anthea Turner.... Lots of fanny jokes about her!

Those might have been c**t jokes about Bovey.

[blankster]

Presumably she won't be able to compete in sporting events at all in the future if she's neither a woman nor a man.

[DrMartinSanchez]

Presumably she won't be able to compete in sporting events at all in the future if she's neither a woman nor a man.

or end up being the first woman to participate in men-only competition?

[Daft Boy]

To fook you? Only if it involves a pool cue and extreme sexual violence.

If you can take it I can give it

[6538]

You don't feel this way about Anthea Turner.... Lots of fanny jokes about her!

However, I agree. The media, IOC and South Africa should leave her alone. I heard someone on the rdaio suggest they have a seperate hermaphrodite race!

Well, quite honestly, I'm coming round to the idea that dividing sport along gender lines is pointless. Just let everyone compete against one another and be done with it. It is, after all, the logical end to equality for women they've been harping on about for 100+ years. Sport separated by gender is hardly equal.

[Frank Hovis]

Well, quite honestly, I'm coming round to the idea that dividing sport along gender lines is pointless. Just let everyone compete against one another and be done with it. It is, after all, the logical end to equality for women they've been harping on about for 100+ years. Sport separated by gender is hardly equal.

In most sports that would just be silly though. If you had an open singles at Wimbledon no women would even qualify. And whilst I have actually been to a few womens' football matches and the standard is surprisingly high well, no chance. I expect England's womens team would struggle in the Conference.

I think there's a case for it in the endurance events. Women are better suited to running & cycling as their legs are proportionately longer and there is no reason for them to have less stamina.

You would also expect little difference in golf. If you shorten the longer holes to take away the advantage of the longer male drive then it should be equal.

[athom]

Presumably she won't be able to compete in sporting events at all in the future if she's neither a woman nor a man.

She must be devastated at all this. Imagine training all your life and then going from world record hero to this overnight. It happened a few years back with an indian woman who later tried to commit suicide - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santhi_Sounda...mes_controversy

If they are going to do any of these tests the only answer is they test all women athletes before they get too far into it. Not wait until they win something so it can be done with maximum media publicity.

[Frank Hovis]

She must be devastated at all this. Imagine training all your life and then going from world record hero to this overnight. It happened a few years back with an indian woman who later tried to commit suicide - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santhi_Sounda...mes_controversy

If they are going to do any of these tests the only answer is they test all women athletes before they get too far into it. Not wait until they win something so it can be done with maximum media publicity.

That would be down to the SAAF then. Who would have known but were so desperate for a medal they pushed thsi runner out anyway.

Their ranting now - Third World War - looks like the hot and angry denial of the guilty kid at school who is mostly upset at being found out.

[athom]

That would be down to the SAAF then. Who would have known but were so desperate for a medal they pushed thsi runner out anyway.

Their ranting now - Third World War - looks like the hot and angry denial of the guilty kid at school who is mostly upset at being found out.

Frank? That's a blokes name right? I was finding your gender a little hard to determine from your avatar

[Frank Hovis]

Frank? That's a blokes name right? I was finding your gender a little hard to determine from your avatar

I must be a bloke, I know my car tyre pressures without having to look them up: 32 / 28 (without heavy loads).

Also I find it interesting that my previous car, an Escort, had a higher required pressure on the back wheels when the heavy engine was in the front.

Convinced yet? Or do you want me to quote my tread depths?

[athom]

I must be a bloke, I know my car tyre pressures without having to look them up: 32 / 28 (without heavy loads).

Also I find it interesting that my previous car, an Escort, had a higher required pressure on the back wheels when the heavy engine was in the front.

Convinced yet? Or do you want me to quote my tread depths?

that'll do nicely

my wife is only able to identify one thing on a car- it's colour. (please no one call me a chauvinist for this fact. It's hardly my fault)