Public Sector Borrowing Soaring

[deflation]

http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8211314.stm

Huge drop in tax income. Err, wasn't that obviously going to happen? No reaction on stocks yet, £ is dropping toward 1.16 again, but not massively...... yet.

Edited August 20, 2009 by deflation

[dpg50000]

The's UK public sector net borrowing totalled £8bn last month, the first July deficit for 13 years, official figures have shown.

The figure was much worse than the £500m deficit expected by analysts

Only out by a factor of 16...... These analysts are all just clueless dicks.

[deflation]

Sales figures up. Stock market likes that.

[@contradevian]

Only out by a factor of 16...... These analysts are all just clueless dicks.

They need a bonus.

[lowrentyieldmakessense(honest!)]

Only out by a factor of 16...... These analysts are all just clueless dicks.

Last month's deficit was the first in July since 1996, and the largest for that month since at least 1993.

2nd payments on account for income tax due in July

1996 current year basis of income tax came in and see above

just wait for next years deficit

protect yourselves from State collapse

Edited August 20, 2009 by lowrentyieldmakessense(honest!)

[drrayjo]

Sales figures up. Stock market likes that.

http://uk.biz.yahoo.com/20082009/325/insta...r-expected.html

ANALYST COMMENTS

PETER DIXON, COMMERZBANK

ON RETAIL SALES

"On the consumer front at least, it looks like the UK household sector is holding up well. But whilst retail activity looks good, non-retail activity doesn't look so clever, so the net result on consumer spending is that it's not doing so well."

ON PUBLIC FINANCES

"The public finances data were far worse than expected. Tax revenues have clearly collapsed. It does suggest that the government's forecast for a deficit of 175 billion pounds this year is going to be more or less met."

ROSS WALKER, RBS FINANCIAL MARKETS

ON RETAIL SALES

"Retail sales were quite encouraging, there is still some resilience there in consumer demand. It seems that the July summer sales were relatively buoyant, given the backdrop.

"The headwinds that are coming for the consumer -- higher taxes, higher debt financing costs, rising unemployment -- mean that next year is going to be tough for retailers but at least we are entering that more challenging period from a position relative resilience."

ON PUBLIC FINANCES

"Normally we get a big surplus. These numbers represent a significant setback."

VICKY REDWOOD, CAPITAL ECONOMICS

"UK retail sales posted another decent rise in July, but the dire public finance figures -- which underline the need for tax rises/spending cuts -- suggest that this resilience will eventually fade.

"The retail sector clearly has built up a decent amount of positive momentum, which could well last a few months more. But we remain pretty gloomy about the outlook for sales further ahead -- not least because of the looming tax rises on the horizon."

ON PUBLIC FINANCES

"Public sector net borrowing was 8 billion pounds in July -- in contrast to the surplus usually recorded at this time of year. The necessary fiscal consolidation is going to be a huge constraint on the economic recovery."

JAMES KNIGHTLEY, ING

"The main thing to take from today's data is that the gains in retail sales give us greater confidence that GDP will rise in the third quarter, meaning that the UK exits recession.

"Meanwhile with the retail sales price deflator falling further this suggests that the BoE can offer ongoing stimulus to ensure that the recovery does come through and is sustainable."

STEPHEN LEWIS, MONUMENT SECURITIES

ON PUBLIC FINANCES

"Very disappointing figure on public sector finances. I think that it indicates that the downturn in the economy is making deep inroads into tax receipts and that we may well end the year with an even larger deficit than was projected in the Budget."

ON RETAIL SALES

"It is fairly close to expectations once you take into account the revisions to the back data."

DAVID PAGE, INVESTEC

"The retail sales numbers were slightly firmer than expected and continue to show a remarkably resilient pattern of retail sales behaviour."

ON PUBLIC FINANCES

"The deficit is worse even than our view and starts to undo some of the good news that was embodied in the first-quarter's numbers. In the first quarter, the implication was that Chancellor Alistair Darling's forecasts would be undershot, but after these numbers it looks like the deficit will be broadly in line with the Budget forecasts."

Sets us up nicely for the 2010 denoument...didn't someone write a book about the coming 2010 Depression?

Give that man a washing machine!

[57percent]

How can they get away with this? Shouldn't the markets be destroying them or is it the case that

they control the BoE and most of our savings (via the banks), so can continue to fund this?

We're all in serious trouble.

[Mr Prudence]

Well the good news is that we are coming out of recession.

One thing bothers me though.

If my standard of living requires 40k pa which I earn 30k and borrow 11k am I in surplus or deficit?

Likewise if the government borrows 175 billion in a year (14% of GDP) and this contributes to a rise in GDP of 0.3%, does this mean the economy has grown by 0.3% or declined by 13.7% or a number in between.?

[interestrateripoff]

Well the good news is that we are coming out of recession.

One thing bothers me though.

If my standard of living requires 40k pa which I earn 30k and borrow 11k am I in surplus or deficit?

Likewise if the government borrows 175 billion in a year (14% of GDP) and this contributes to a rise in GDP of 0.3%, does this mean the economy has grown by 0.3% or declined by 13.7% or a number in between.?

Please practice some doublethink. You will then see the real picture that everything is improving.

[57percent]

Well the good news is that we are coming out of recession.

One thing bothers me though.

If my standard of living requires 40k pa which I earn 30k and borrow 11k am I in surplus or deficit?

Likewise if the government borrows 175 billion in a year (14% of GDP) and this contributes to a rise in GDP of 0.3%, does this mean the economy has grown by 0.3% or declined by 13.7% or a number in between.?

+ 200bn of QE.

[interestrateripoff]

Only out by a factor of 16...... These analysts are all just clueless dicks.

Clearly they don't do negative which is why they are employed.

[interestrateripoff]

Does this mean we are on course for £175bn of borrowing as Darling predicted?

Or does this figure mean that his prediction like everything else will be wrong?

[symo]

Now more and more obvious that the election is trying to be bought. Sadlling the next two generations with unfathomable amounts of debt which taxes will pay for.

I notice Sibley never comments on threads like these. So let me answer on his behalf.

"The government can sell land and they can be used to build houses and they get tax too, and then everyone benefits because house prices only ever go up".