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richcrashman

Property Ladder Sausage Factory Updates.

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Hi All,

Its nearly two weeks since i sent what i have to admit was a pretty poor email to C4 about P.S.a.L. I have to admit steam was still rising as i hit the send button and i only provided a few links on what was found by people on here.

I didn't think i would hear back after i got an email from C4 saying they wouldn't comment.

Well tonight i got home and i've had a mail from the shows producer.

Dear ................,

Thank you for your email. Following on from discussions with Channel 4, and as the producer of Property Ladder, I wanted to write and answer your questions about the episode featuring the Sausage Factory.

Firstly, I'd like to reassure you that we take truth and accuracy very seriously on the programme. I am sorry you believe there were inaccuracies in this episode. However, I am absolutely satisfied that the programme was an accurate and true reflection of what happened. We have also spoken to the contributors who too believe it to be an accurate and true picture of what happened.

With regard to the question of planning permission, at the start of the programme, Sarah suggests Nigel and Sarah should drop their plans to convert the factory into a house and instead divide it into flats. They decided against that but later changed their minds. We make it very clear that at that stage they submit a planning application to turn the development into three units. At no point do we claim that the application had been approved.

In answer to your question about how a price can be put on a property without planning permission, it's actually very simple to do. It's what developers do all the time when assessing whether or not a site or property is worth developing, and no different from, for example, the process of asking an estate agent what your house would be worth if you converted the loft, or the value assigned to a property being sold off-plan. Here, we asked estate agents with extensive expertise and local knowledge to use that and value the unfinished flats as though they were finished. That included having all the relevant permissions.

With regard to the neighbouring site, there is no ongoing dispute with Nigel or Sarah. A planning application for the site had previously been challenged by them and other neighbours. However, the application was approved before we started following the story.

I trust this has addressed your concerns and reassured you that the programme was an accurate representation of Nigel and Sarah's development.

Yours sincerely,

...................

Editor Factual Programmes

talkbackTHAMES

Well what do you folks think to this?? Its ok to give us prices that included planning they have no chance of getting and don't even have an application in for????????????????????????????????

I think i can see a hole in his argument about next door. Planning was granted in march 08 and at the start of the show it states the date of first filming as Febuary 08.

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Well what do you folks think to this?? Its ok to give us prices that included planning they have no chance of getting and don't even have an application in for????????????????????????????????

I think i can see a hole in his argument about next door. Planning was granted in march 08 and at the start of the show it states the date of first filming as Febuary 08.

My house is now worth £200 million pending planing permission to knock down my semi-detached and construct, in its place, a Sky-Scraper BTL monkey hive. Now, if I can just get the neighbors to agree.

Edited by enrieb

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My house is now worth £200 million pending planing permission to knock down my semi-detached and construct, in its place, a Sky-Scraper BTL monkey hive. Now, if I can just get the neighbors to agree.

LOL

Perfect retort. I think C4 may have been OK if they had made a 'full and clear' statement rather than excercising selective journalism. They should have been crystal clear that planning permission was not granted and the pricing was an estimate based upon it being granted etc etc. Though with or without permission a sausage factory turned into flats is still a cheap product stuffed with all the worst bits in life not designed for a long shelf life.

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n answer to your question about how a price can be put on a property without planning permission, it's actually very simple to do. It's what developers do all the time when assessing whether or not a site or property is worth developing, and no different from, for example, the process of asking an estate agent what your house would be worth if you converted the loft, or the value assigned to a property being sold off-plan. Here, we asked estate agents with extensive expertise and local knowledge to use that and value the unfinished flats as though they were finished. That included having all the relevant permissions.

Comical. Because everything sells immediately with no reductions, no negotiations and estate agents never go out of business.

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Dear sir,

In reply to your concerned letter.

We at our wonderful tv channel, have a duty to BTL landlords. Our heads are therefore kept firmly up each others A$r$es in order to reduce the risk of any exposure to realism. I can confirm that during the sausage factory episode, my head was personally completely lodged up my PA butt, that I really couldn't have told you accurately whether it was night or day.

I trust this letter goes some way to helping you understand our fine methodology here at BTL4.

Regards,

Cheif inspector of BTL programming AKA Butt scooper.

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I have to admit i was not happy with that reply.

I am looking forward to my next reply, just got to pen the response to the above bilge.

Got to admit i was furious when i read that.

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Apologies if this has been posted before.

It relates to Location, Location's claim that Middlesborough was the worst town in the UK. It has ramifications relating to the Sausage Factory episode.

Ofcom's reply to a Middlesborough complaint basically stated that LLL is 'entertainment' and thus requires lower standards of accuracy than a factual programme:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2009/aug/0...t-place-to-live

Would Ofcom classify Property Snakes and Ladders similarly as just 'entertainment', and thus remove its responsibility to get its facts right?

Edited by juvenal

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Dear ................,

Thank you for your email. Following on from discussions with Channel 4, and as the producer of Property Ladder, I wanted to write and answer your questions about the episode featuring the Sausage Factory.

Firstly, I'd like to reassure you that we take truth and accuracy very seriously on the programme. I am sorry you believe there were inaccuracies in this episode. However, I am absolutely satisfied that the programme was an accurate and true reflection of what happened. We have also spoken to the contributors who too believe it to be an accurate and true picture of what happened.

Yours sincerely,

...................

Editor Factual Programmes

talkbackTHAMES

But it is not a factual programme, just a maybe if planing permission is granted and the build is successful and the local market wants it and the credit market allows them to borrow to buy it. just one day in the future it might be a successful development.

Hypothetical Programmes...

Edited by spectre

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richcrashman, did you mention the C4 malfunctioning calculator?

channel 4's malfunctioning calculator:

http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/ind...p;#entry2026284

Bristol and Faversham episode

Robie and Jo bought the Oast house for £225,000.

They had originally hoped to spend £150,000 on their development, but this has now leapt to £225,000. They need to get £375,000 just to break even.

225+225=450 Not 375 :ph34r:

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Guest DissipatedYouthIsValuable
An excellent neologism - it deserves wider usage!

Everyone loves a monkey hive.

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richcrashman, did you mention the C4 malfunctioning calculator?

channel 4's malfunctioning calculator:

http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/ind...p;#entry2026284

Bristol and Faversham episode

225+225=450 Not 375 :ph34r:

Go and watch the end of that episode online.

I already got the calculator fixed and the end has been re-edited and voiced over.

Also the £1500 a week for the Bristol house is now currently marketed at £1500 a month.

Edited by richcrashman

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Go and watch the end of that episode online.

I already got the calculator fixed and the end has been re-edited and voiced over.

Also the �1500 a week for the Bristol house is now currently marketed at �1500 a month.

You are changing the face of UK television!

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Go and watch the end of that episode online.

I already got the calculator fixed and the end has been re-edited and voiced over.

Also the �1500 a week for the Bristol house is now currently marketed at �1500 a month.

C4 website still incorrect. Haven't played the episode again

http://www.channel4.com/4homes/on-tv/prope...-07-21_p_4.html

They had originally hoped to spend £150,000 on their development, but this has now leapt to £225,000. They need to get £375,000 just to break even.

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Listening to the episode again while typing... It surprises me that there really aren't very many date checks on this episode - normally you get the odd, "it's July 2008, and work has stopped due to a dispute with the builders" and the like.

Sorry if all this seems a bit disjointed, just trying to get my thoughts on paper for you...

1) From what I understand of the letter, channel 4 say that the pair had PP for a converting the whole place into a house.

This seems unlikely, as other PP apps were turned down due to the fact that it would be a loss of jobs from the area.

Going by the timeline that Russell (post 1456 of the main PS&L thread) :13/02/2001 - Planning is granted for change of use from existing industrial use to 3 bed dwelling, B1 office studio and a live/work unit. & 07/03/2004 - Letter from owner Khalid Memhood (of Syncretic Works Ltd) is sent to planning office detailing changes to actual build from planning permission

So there was a 3 bed dwelling permitted in 2001, (although see Russell's timeline: 12/12/2005 - Kalmars property agents write to Khalid Memhood to set out agency terms and pricing for the B1 office studio at £161 per sq metre and live/work unit at £85 per sq metre, fees of 15% of first £10k and 10% of residue (the 3 bed flat appears to no longer be part of 49 Brunel Road, though shares an access path) an adjustment to plans was made in 2004 (both before the pair bought it) and no other PP apps were put in by them until Jan 2009

At no point has there been an aplication for 3 dwellings on the site - the most applied for is 1 B1 office studio, a live/work space and a 1 bed flat - 3 parts, but not all living space - and this was 25/06/09.

It couldn't be that they were developing the 3 bed dwelling, as they were blatant about it being a live work unit at the time of purchase. So any previous PP for a 3 bed dwelling was for a bit that was by 2007 a seperate entity but with shared access.

2) Next doors planning was approved before they started following the story.

As you point out, this is incorrect. Nigel was sending letters about next door in Summer 2007, so the whole thing was established then, and the filming started in Feb 2008, if not before, and research about the development project by the TV company would have started well before that.

I think that the situation stands that they don't have permission for the flat that they did show at the end, and actually having looked again, the film at 3:58 on 4OD, where the 2 of them are in the kitchen putting things away is actually the area that is the kitchen at the end of the programme - the windows and the size of the place matches up well,as does the "wide oak flooring" that Beenie Baby mentions in the voice over.

As Nigel is busy painting in the clip at the end (dated July 09) he says that it's great to get this one done, and that he's looking forward to moving on to the next. At the time he said that, there wasn't PP for the other flats. This in itself is misleading.

Hope these bits help and aid and abeit your cause! Well done for writing to them, and getting a response, even if it is a crock of stimpy from them.

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You've got to let these things go.

Maybe, but at the same time, if you watch something that is in the real life genre, you expect the results on it to be vaguely truthful. The result of the programme is that they plan to make 3 apartments. The truth of the matter is that they don't have permission for this, and chances are slim that they ever will have.

I myself don't mind the mythical valuations, as I think most people can sit there and understand that the flats haven't been built yet, but pretending that their project will continue once the cameras have finished is not the case.

The filming was over 18 months, and in that time they got nothing done, except (as far as I can tell) redoing up the flat/kitchen area that was already existing in the building.

It would have made for an interesting ending if they'd sat down and said, yes we've lost it all, as we haven't got planning permission - it would have been a timely reminder that PP needs to be sought.

That programme was a mockumentary, not an entertaining documentary of the project.

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Go and watch the end of that episode online.

I already got the calculator fixed and the end has been re-edited and voiced over.

Also the �1500 a week for the Bristol house is now currently marketed at �1500 a month.

Beeny had to go into a sound studio and re - record it? That won't have been cheap.

Result!

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Beeny had to go into a sound studio and re - record it? That won't have been cheap.

Result!

Exactly!!

How many mentions were there about planning in tonights re hash?

Edited by richcrashman

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