VeryMeanReversion Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 Re: Margaret Beckett has suggested that the new government scheme is only expected to help around 9,000 borrowersYou're talking about the "in work but not earning enough" scheme. I should have been clear, I described the limitations of the "Homeowner Mortgage Support Scheme" where you have a lower paid job than before. The scheme you describe is "Support Mortgage Interest" but that has its own limitations: - loss of single income (doesnt cover the case where one of two workers has been made unemployed) - it only covers the mortgage, any other loans will result in you being bankrupted to sell the house anyway It seems like the consequence of the above schemes is that you should not take a lower paying job to avoid being reponsible for rolled up interest. You see complete insanity every day from this government and yet still can't bring yourself to believe "that they could be this stupid"..... Its what the loonies in charge think that matters, and they think they can borrow and spend their way out of this. Although stupidity knows no bounds, the goverment has reached its debt ceiling and has no more borrowing capacity. I concede that they could try and print their way out of it. VMR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ItsColdUpHere Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 (edited) I should have been clear, I described the limitations of the "Homeowner Mortgage Support Scheme" where you have a lower paid job than before.The scheme you describe is "Support Mortgage Interest" but that has its own limitations: - loss of single income (doesnt cover the case where one of two workers has been made unemployed) - it only covers the mortgage, any other loans will result in you being bankrupted to sell the house anyway It seems like the consequence of the above schemes is that you should not take a lower paying job to avoid being reponsible for rolled up interest. Although stupidity knows no bounds, the goverment has reached its debt ceiling and has no more borrowing capacity. I concede that they could try and print their way out of it. VMR. Re: the goverment has reached its debt ceiling and has no more borrowing capacity. Thats simply not true. Nobody even knows where the borrowing limit is. They certainly haven't reached it yet, as they haven't been refused money on the markets. When that happens, THEN they'll have reached the borrowing limit. The borrowing limit is for an individual, company or state is the point where nobody will lend you any more money. And they haven't even started printing money yet... Re: - any other loans will result in you being bankrupted to sell the house anyway Thats not true either. Not if they are unsecured. Thats what unsecured means. People can and do simply stop paying credit cards and loans and still keep their houses. Alls they do is give you a CCJ. Friends of the wife have done this on numerous occasions, CCJ's to them are just bits of funny paper that come in the post. They only lost the house when they couldn't be bothered to pay the mortgage either. Re: - loss of single income (doesnt cover the case where one of two workers has been made unemployed) I actually said that in my post : "The net effect is that two of you are working and you have a big mortgage, its better if you BOTH lose your jobs..." but of course that would mean agreeing to something, which is obviously beyond you. I'm constantly astounded on this website that NOBODY backs down on ANYTHING, nobody is ever ******ING WRONG!!! Its pathetic. And before you say it I can point to a few posts where I've doffed the cap and had my mind changed. But then you're never wrong so it doesn't apply. etc. Edited January 30, 2009 by ItsColdUpHere Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Privateer Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 Think this was linked elsewhere but it's pertinent here.Survivalism given the tongue-in-cheek Guardian treatment; http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/200...uide-tanya-gold Sobering about the nuclear reactor cooling issue. Canada it is then! As long as they scram the reactor before abandoning it, it should be okay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VeryMeanReversion Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 Re: - any other loans will result in you being bankrupted to sell the house anywayThats not true either. Not if they are unsecured. Thats what unsecured means. Unsecured does not prevent charging orders on your house. It then becomes secured and can result in a forced sale. This has recently become common practice for debt collection in the last few years. People can and do simply stop paying credit cards and loans and still keep their houses. Alls they do is give you a CCJ. If they own the house, the debt collection should have used a charging order rather than a CCJ. Charging orders incur base+8% rollup and can result in the forced sale of the house. There have been recent articles in the press about this. but of course that would mean agreeing to something, which is obviously beyond you.I'm constantly astounded on this website that NOBODY backs down on ANYTHING, nobody is ever ******ING WRONG!!! Its pathetic. And before you say it I can point to a few posts where I've doffed the cap and had my mind changed. But then you're never wrong so it doesn't apply. You raise points, I raise points, its a forum. I conceded the point about govt being able to print money to meet benefits claims. Cheer up, its Friday. VMR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grumpy-old-man-returns Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 I think I just realised what you meant, basically these conditions havent been seen for 3 generations so there is no social wisdom left to understand the consequences.I'll give my great aunt a ring, she's 100 and more mentally aware than I am. VMR. yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meow Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 (edited) Except that the government have promised to pay AFTER ONE MONTH the interest on peoples mortgages. So unless they go back on this I don't see how an umemployed person will lose their house. They're probably better off than the employed ones with a big mortgage who are falling behind with it.Moral Hazard anyone? And if you sell and get the equity out you don't get any benefits until that equity is just a few grand... I suppose it all depends where you think house prices will bottom out. If you are a "35% fall" believer then you're to late - you'll probably have to sell for 25% off just to get a sale. If you're an 70-90% believer then yes, get out now. If you're in negative equity and have been made unemployed, then good news - the taxpayer is going to pay for your losses as long as you don't get a job!!! Which are you... just out of interest? p.s. What ever happened to these sorts of HPC threads?... Big hitter posters talking doom in a totally reasoned and believeable manner. Edited January 30, 2009 by meow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gone baby gone Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 within the next 3 months max. It will unravel at lightening speed. I agree. Well here we are. It's May and the world is still more or less the same as it was in January. No state failure. No meltdown of society. No global currency collapse. No hyperinflation. Jobs are being lost, some companies are closing down, the UK has huge debts and might need IMF help sometime in the next couple of years. For the majority of people, all that is happening is they are adjusting their lifestyles to be in line with their earnings - something they should have been doing all along. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grumpy-old-man-returns Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 (edited) Well here we are. It's May and the world is still more or less the same as it was in January. No state failure. No meltdown of society. No global currency collapse. No hyperinflation. this is really, really bugging you isn't it. We ARE in a global financial meltdown right now, even the politicians are starting to admit it. I don't want the meltdown, it's just going to be part of history. Jobs are being lost, some companies are closing down, the UK has huge debts and might need IMF help sometime in the next couple of years. For the majority of people, all that is happening is they are adjusting their lifestyles to be in line with their earnings - something they should have been doing all along. 'some companies'.......that has to be THE understatement of the year. what you mean like the top banks in the US & UK. top insurance ratings companies countries asking for bailouts......that's COUNTRIES btw General Motors & Chrysler. editing on the fly... Edited May 1, 2009 by grumpy-old-man-returns Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gone baby gone Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 this is really, really bugging you isn't it. Pomposity always bugs me We ARE in a global financial meltdown right now, even the politicians are starting to admit it. I don't want the meltdown, it's just going to be part of history. We are in part of the financial cycle. You know, the boom-bust cycle that Gordon claimed to have eradicated? Well, this is the bust. It's a big one alright, but it's not the end of the world as we know it. It's not even close. 'some companies'.......that has to be THE understatement of the year. what you mean like the top banks in the US & UK. top insurance ratings companies countries asking for bailouts......that's COUNTRIES btw General Motors & Chrysler. editing on the fly... The vast majority of companies are still trading. The companies you listed were - by and large - poorly run. General Motors and Chrysler have been dead men walking, kept alive by the optimism of their creditors and shareholders for too long. Countries have been caught with their pants down (including ours, although we all saw that coming), but hey it happens, the IMF and the world bank have been dishing out loans for years, so this is not a new thing. The bottom line is, you said it would have all have 'unravelled' in 3 months. It hasn't. No dam has broken. Most people will be in exactly the same position they were in January. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grumpy-old-man-returns Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 Jobs are being lost, some companies are closing down, the UK has huge debts and might need IMF help sometime in the next couple of years. For the majority of people, all that is happening is they are adjusting their lifestyles to be in line with their earnings - something they should have been doing all along. sky news just quoted: company liquidations up 56% in 1st quarter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grumpy-old-man-returns Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 Pomposity always bugs me We are in part of the financial cycle. You know, the boom-bust cycle that Gordon claimed to have eradicated? Well, this is the bust. It's a big one alright, but it's not the end of the world as we know it. It's not even close. The vast majority of companies are still trading. The companies you listed were - by and large - poorly run. General Motors and Chrysler have been dead men walking, kept alive by the optimism of their creditors and shareholders for too long. Countries have been caught with their pants down (including ours, although we all saw that coming), but hey it happens, the IMF and the world bank have been dishing out loans for years, so this is not a new thing. The bottom line is, you said it would have all have 'unravelled' in 3 months. It hasn't. No dam has broken. Most people will be in exactly the same position they were in January. I really don't know what to say to these types of posts. You have been a member for a long time. I think I will just bump your reply for all to read. Nothing needs to be said imo, your own replies are speaking volumes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gone baby gone Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 I really don't know what to say to these types of posts. You have been a member for a long time.I think I will just bump your reply for all to read. Nothing needs to be said imo, your own replies are speaking volumes. Well, it's good to at least know you can't admit you were wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grumpy-old-man-returns Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 Well, it's good to at least know you can't admit you were wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gone baby gone Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 Ah, so the 'dam broke' sometime between January and May did it? Must have missed that - sorry, been too busy with all the work coming in Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grumpy-old-man-returns Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 Ah, so the 'dam broke' sometime between January and May did it?Must have missed that - sorry, been too busy with all the work coming in err, you're making yourself look very silly imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grumpy-old-man-returns Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 Ah, so the 'dam broke' sometime between January and May did it? your reply Yes, good to see you around. And good that all the 'old school' have been proved right about the credit/housing bubble I think we differ on our breakdown of society approaches. You are more of a sudden decline man and I am more of a slow drip, drip, drip over the next 10-20 years type. It will be interesting, but probably not in any way pleasant, to see which of us is right! my reply from the pov of the housing market/ credit cards / debt related stuff.wrt the system meltdown & total collapse, that will take a few years to play out, but what I mean is that unemployment figures/retail failures/bank failures etc will happen within the next 3 months. However I do see an icelandic situation will be upon us soon BUT because we are more controlled & dumbed down, it may not appear the same on the surface. Just look to France for the difference I am talking about. They have much less personal debt than us, their housing bubble is not as big, yet they are rioting right now. It's about culture & awareness. like I said, you are making yourself look very silly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gone baby gone Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 err, you're making yourself look very silly imo. That's OK. I'm in good company. Now, back to the topic at hand. Are you sure the damn broke? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr ray Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 err, you're making yourself look very silly imo. I agree with RA. Vast majority of people unaffected by all this. Only thing they notice is the closed high street shops (and not all of those in trouble have closed) So far the worst case scenario has not happened and the people who stocked up with Spam, beans and gold are looking a bit foolish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Godley Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 err, you're making yourself look very silly imo. naah you have been making yourself silly, fortunatley we have written record of your predictions to judge the degree of sillyness. Saw through you months ago........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grumpy-old-man-returns Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 ah I see. This thread has turned into 'The Denial Thread' you now have posters who have access to all the info & are now saying that it's not really goin gto be that bad, just a bit of a blip really. hilarious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grumpy-old-man-returns Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 naah you have been making yourself silly, fortunatley we have written record of your predictions to judge the degree of sillyness. Saw through you months ago........ yeah, but who are YOU really Godley. Not a new poster. New usernames with old posters bring old issues. Very, very apparent for everyone to see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gone baby gone Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 wrt the system meltdown & total collapse, that will take a few years to play out, but what I mean is that unemployment figures/retail failures/bank failures etc will happen within the next 3 months. So, were there more or less - people made unemployed - retail failures - bank failures before Feb-May or during Feb-May? Because if the dam broke, surely there would have been a massive increase? Looking at all the measures available, I think the worst period for all the things stated above seems to have been Q4 2008. Unless I missed something? I dunno, maybe I should have paid more attention to Alex Jones' (or similar) website? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grumpy-old-man-returns Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 I agree with RA.Vast majority of people unaffected by all this. Only thing they notice is the closed high street shops (and not all of those in trouble have closed) So far the worst case scenario has not happened and the people who stocked up with Spam, beans and gold are looking a bit foolish. please stop, my sides are hurting.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gone baby gone Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 please stop, my sides are hurting.... You know, that's what Gordon Brown does as well. Laugh when he knows he's wrong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Godley Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 I agree with RA.Vast majority of people unaffected by all this. Only thing they notice is the closed high street shops (and not all of those in trouble have closed) So far the worst case scenario has not happened and the people who stocked up with Spam, beans and gold are looking a bit foolish. They were ramping their own agenda's, they were/are long on gold or were trying to scare STR's into buying. Whilst their predictions were silly their agenda was thought through for personal gain. The gold argument has always been fatuous, even if the apocolyptic scenario came to pass not one of the gold holders would see a penny, not one ounce of it. On the original point of the OP, the dam will break around autumn of this year when I believe interest rates will rise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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