davidg

> This was the most dramatic of worldwide economic downturns in history. to put it politely that is hyperbole. The Black Death and the collapse of the Roman Empire were far bigger downturns. Some historians suggest that 50% of the Euro/North African population starved to death following the fall of Rome. It took 1000 years for economic activity to reach the same level as at the end of the empire. Just in time for the plague which wiped out a third of the european population and lead to the end of serfdom in England.

Huh? I didn't think this was a secret.

Me too, even my house.

I remember when I was at Uni in the mid-eighties you could get a victorian brick built house not far from the sea for 30K. Salaries havn't gone up a whole stack since then - I graduated on 11K/yr. The rental yields were good though, you could get 400/m for a 3 bedder renting to students. The whole town was full of BTLers at the time getting rich on student lets.

Well there was, Micheal Meacher and John McDonnell. Brown's team got some of their supporters to say they would support John McDonnell so Meacher stood down in McDonnell's favour then the Brownites pulled the rug from McDonnell so he didn't have the 35 signatures required to launched an official challenge. Anyone more serious than Meacher didn't want the job, it would seem.

I have to agree,another one of those "I know a friend who" stories.

I think it was Keynes who originated that phrase.

Yes he didn't want something like him snapping at his heels so he has put a load of non-entities into the departments. I'm not sure there is a single big beast in the cabinet who is up to running a department. Certainly not Jack "all these darkies look the same to me" Straw. So Brown has to run everything. At least Stalin had Beria and Ribbentrop to rely on. It now looks rather clever that Reid got out while he could. You'd actually have more confidence in the Tory front bench.... even the LibDems look like a better alternative govt with the Clegg-Cable-Huhne tryptique.

Don't worry Martin, there will job losses in spades when property starts to revalue.

It was only scheduled to last 1 month. Pity I'll miss the fit northern bird who presented it.

Yes it seems to be a byword for Moron Brown's stewardship of the economy to tax in a way that discourages production and enterprise and encourages waste.

> In Geneva [traffic] it whizzes along at more than 40 mph. Arf, with 50km and 30km citywide speed limits and lots of traffic lights I find that hard to believe.

Or as Sallust put it: Few men desire liberty The majority are satisfied with a just master.

Yes you are quite right, I used the word inadvisedly. It reminds me of a friend who told me he had invested in a new car.

There are a lot of Irish who have invested near me in Chamrousse in a hugh development where the operator, Transmontage, has gone bust. They have not been paid rents for 6 months and face having to pay back 20% VAT on their purchase due to the bankruptcy. Some are complaining that the properties were 20% overvalued due to the VAT rebate and that rents were unrealistic to get good occupancy. Here is some stuff from an irish forum http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?t=63790

Same in Bournemouth, but you just tell them you are a single person living in the property and get at least 25% off.

Yes that is pretty much spot on. The worst situation is where you are self-employed. I think I was handing over around 80% of what I was billing to the state. Petrol is a bit cheaper in France - around 80p / l I think because they reduced tax and there is no road tax. Basically France can be a good place to be an unproductive parasite if you can play the system well (like some British ex-pats have done with the health service) and are living somewhere not too expensive, it is a good place not to work. In Britain you are more or less forced to work AFAIKS. Regarding "immigrant" vs. "french" birth rates - I suspect France will be partitioned by 2050 into Maghrebistan in the south-east - capital New Algiers (formerly Marseille) and Ancien-France in the north-west. BTWthey may little tax but they do pay social security at 20%

Missed the 88-89 boom as I didn't see buying as being a good idea at that stage of my life - early 20s. Finally bought in 1995 after renting since '87. I didn't have any problems with renting (and it wasn't great back then) as it gave me the flexibility to pursue a career whereever. The last HPC was a good thing for me - I rode out the recession that went with it in Germany.

pain for the Irish http://www.sbpost.ie/post/pages/p/story.as...7413-qqqx=1.asp

Tell me about it, I get paid in Swiss Francs and the currency has gone down the pan over recent years. Every week I get worse off.

along with those dreadful black granite with white flake kitchen worksurfaces. anyone remember stenciling?

He as good as called Gutless Gordie a barefaced liar on the 10pm news.

So Brown doesn't even have the guts to face journalists directly but instead summons toothless sheep Marr to be his mouth piece.

This has been a bit like the Cuban missile crisis with Brown playing the role of Kruschev (instead of his usual Stalin) and Cameroon as Kennedy. The other guy blinked!

After a few weeks you are lucky not to be convinced that western civilisation as we know it is coming to an end and that you should sell your house and buy gold sovereigns to bury in the ground somewhere.