pig

We aren't building enough homes. However, 'the housing crisis', tends to be debated in the main stream purely on this premise. I suspect in particular the poorer Banks of Mom and Dads' have been complaining to MP's, The dream is we'll figure it out and at some point in the next couple of decades catch up on our building and prices will slow down. Why people think they can build homes faster than government encouraged property speculators can speculate on them is beyond me.

It is a bit weird. I suspect its more of a covering **** thing if/when it goes pop. especially from the BoE 'we knew and tried to do something about it'. I'm not clear how politically this is playing out - for example is this a bit of a South East vs the rest of the country thing ? I read somewhere that HTB was most popular outside of South East hot spots and therefore less obvious why its a terrible idea. You're able to buy a home, it's cheaper than renting, the price is going up and the government appears to be making money out of it. Sounds great on the surface doesn't it ? Happy as Larry on crack cocaine...

That did make me laugh out loud ! On the other hand I've often wondered if there is an unresolved conflict between the 'neo-liberal' right and the 'conservative' right - e.g. 'greedy developers' vs NIMBY's.

Its not either or. But I would consider immigration, planning, house-building monopolies, mortgage accessibility, collapsing social housing and so on all as 'secondary' factors - next to the fundamental economic problems associated with hpi. Banging on specifically about immigration in a forum about hpi tends to imply an issue with immigration rather than hpi.

And how can you discuss housing with ANYONE who refuses to recognize the complete, nation destroying insanity of this. The left (my side) are also completely blind and prefer to waffle on about the non-existant 'bedroom tax than deal with the elephant in the room. UK politics appears, at the moment, to be dead in the water. I am perpetually amazed by the fact that a government can get away with complaining about the HB bill while overtly pumping up house prices.

Whatever she did wrong, there has been ample time to fix it. Ironically if the Conservatives had been more ruthless with her legacy then it would have been held in better regard - instead we are starting to 'blame' it as if it were the root of all subsequent evil rather than solutions for a particular time. What we are left with is a form of financial crisis, and one that Labour also contributed to rather than recognising and dealing with. That said it is pretty depressing on a site such as this when immigration is constantly crow-barred into the debate.

Tulip Mania When: 1634-1637 Where: Holland The amount the market declined from peak to bottom: This number is difficult to calculate, but, we can tell you that at the peak of the market, a person could trade a single tulip for an entire estate, and, at the bottom, one tulip was the price of a common onion. Synopsis: In 1593 tulips were brought from Turkey and introduced to the Dutch. The novelty of the new flower made it widely sought after and therefore fairly pricey. After a time, the tulips contracted a non-fatal virus known as mosaic, which didn't kill the tulip population but altered them causing "flames" of color to appear upon the petals. The color patterns came in a wide variety, increasing the rarity of an already unique flower. Thus, tulips, which were already selling at a premium, began to rise in price according to how their virus alterations were valued, or desired. Everyone began to deal in bulbs, essentially speculating on the tulip market, which was believed to have no limits. The true bulb buyers (the garden centers of the past) began to fill up inventories for the growing season, depleting the supply further and increasing scarcity and demand. Soon, prices were rising so fast and high that people were trading their land, life savings, and anything else they could liquidate to get more tulip bulbs. Many Dutch persisted in believing they would sell their hoard to hapless and unenlightened foreigners, thereby reaping enormous profits. Somehow, the originally overpriced tulips enjoyed a twenty-fold increase in value - in one month! Needless to say, the prices were not an accurate reflection of the value of a tulip bulb. As it happens in many speculative bubbles, some prudent people decided to sell and crystallize their profits. A domino effect of progressively lower and lower prices took place as everyone tried to sell while not many were buying. The price began to dive, causing people to panic and sell regardless of losses. Dealers refused to honor contracts and people began to realize they traded their homes for a piece of greenery; panic and pandemonium were prevalent throughout the land. The government attempted to step in and halt the crash by offering to honor contracts at 10% of the face value, but then the market plunged even lower, making such restitution impossible. No one emerged unscathed from the crash. Even the people who had locked in their profit by getting out early suffered under the following depression. The effects of the tulip craze left the Dutch very hesitant about speculative investments for quite some time. Investors now can know that it is better to stop and smell the flowers than to stake your future upon one.

In all seriousness I'm hearing and overhearing 'its going to crash at some point' everywhere - and now literally 20 seconds ago in a Cafe. This last conversation caveated by 'but I can't imagine London dropping that much'. It really is 'different this time' as I don't remember this sort of ubiquitous sentiment before the 2007 blip.

You mean there are right wing Black people too ?! Christ what next, the House of Lords ? Also that does explain a lot - after all if Black Britons can happily vote for 'repatriation' then its not far fetched to imagine HPC'rs voting for UKIP. And how did you know I was an intern working in the City ? We're all rooting here for UKIP getting Europe out from meddling in our affairs ! And pleasantly surprised and grateful that there are Green Belt warriors protecting our patch, happy to to sing the national anthem while taking it up the backside from us spivs and speculators... Happy Easter.

Well thats more like it ! I'm not really a troll - only in practical terms: I'm just appalled that Veterans of this site would vote for UKIP. That said, I appreciate politics isn't that simple and voting can be a simple act born from complicated thought. And I think the Tories are ideologically caught between a rock and a hard place on several fronts - its understandable why people are defecting in a corollary of CoE to Catholicism. I don't really mind Farage, and I'm slightly Eurosceptic myself. The rest is misinformed populist right wing drivel of the worst kind - we've been there before many times over the decades.

Temper temper Mr Banner ! Out of interest - those 'at least 10 people' who are flocking to UKIP, are they all HPC'rs, do they share many of the views on this website ?

Well I am happy for you that you have lots of friends on here that vote for you. But would be of more practical use for the forum if you could actually make an argument before you gave up ? I don't want the last word, just a proper debate.

Nobody has that amount of money. There are hundreds. thousands of reasons why anybody might be unhappy with the main parties. Even after our short exchange I still do not really understand how you can reconcile supporting UKIP with concern with HPI issues - what chance do they ? At the end of the day you simply are telling them that you are happy to align with a party that is against house-building and believes immigrants are the root of all our problems.

Absolutely. And lets face it, there is a whiff of middle class hypocrisy. It was OK when it was poor end of the spectrum that were locked out of owning their own home, now its vast swathes of middle class people its a disaster. If the poorer end of the spectrum managed to bring up their kids in rented accommodation I'm sure the middle class can cope !

Lol! OK that was a little harsh. I'm sure you are concerned about HPI but at the end of the day you're just pimping UKIP for reasons other than that they have any constructive contribution to HPI issues (as they clearly don't), which is OK - each to their own !

Fair enough. And I know a fair few people who have given up on buying and are having kids regardless. Life goes on.

Try reading the rest of my post: I think I've clearly pointed out that they have discredited themselves. In black and white. On their manifesto. Unless you can demonstrate otherwise I will assume that you do not have any interest in the issues raised by HPC'ers either.

It links to a debate. One argument used is to vote for UKIP as a tactical exercise ? A sort of (barely!) politically correct BNP a pox on all your houses vote ? Here is a link to the UKIP Manifesto for you: UKIP Manifesto It is headlined with: TACKLING MASS IMMIGRATION (Out of control, An Open Door to Crime) FIGHTING FUEL POVERTY (looks like a cameo appearance for the OAP's) OPPOSING OVER-DEVELOPMENT (Green Spaces Under Attack, migrants accounted for half the housing boom) SUPPORTING LOWER TAXES (29m more people coming here, we'll lose the NHS) and it come with a rather compelling promise: VOTE UKIP GET UKIP Sounds a fab dog whistle for old Tory voter's privileged with living in Englands green and pleasant land, or a certain type of white working class voter. My question to you is still why would any intelligent HPC'er touch this party with the proverbial shitty stick ?

I'd rather you'd explain. 'Not rocket science' leads me to the rather preposterous conclusion that you've managed to post 12,684 times on this site (and not unreasonable to conclude you've actually read 20,000+ posts) and yet actually believe that immigration is the fundamental problem with hpi ?!

Its potentially not such a great sacrifice for out and out materialists. What we 'value' is increasingly being virtualised anyway. But the issue of the need for a stable home does remain. Also is a whole generation supposed to live off housing benefit in retirement ?

So why UKIP ? And unless you are on here simply to pimp for UKIP votes, how do they contribute to this debate ?

Is UK Independence from Europe more important to you than the housing bubble then ?

So with a sort of creeping tacit acceptance that we're in a bubble, how will this play out over the next year ? Seems a long time in Politics...

Imagine all those people starting to understand the issues behind HPI and how it affects their lives. UKIP vote would collapse as people start looking to actually change things.

Its more people not realising that there is a 'situation'. But yes, disseminate, debate and protest if necessary. It is starting to creep into mainstream media, if it continues it starts becoming part of a political agenda.