Unmoderated

The whole picture would start from 1948? I did check. The years you used for your original comparision were intersting in that the year before the first tax year had the same PA, the final year also has the same PA as was forecast for the next 5 (maybe 4) years. Yeah, I can read. Can you sit still? You're changing all the dates lol.

You believe it don't you? PMSL. OK Tell everyone here about the NHS allocation (5.2). You might also be interested to know that the DWP whio adminsters the payments on this haven't had a set of audited accounts signed of for decades. No matter. It's a BS 'fund'. It is not in surplus. It is not ring fenced. It's a tax like any other and tens of billions of the income stream are used to cover health.

Thank you! I have to say you're one of the few posters left on here that adds interesting debate.... without trying to blow smoke up you!

What year did you orignally use for comparison? Link? Now you're comparing a diffrent starting year and talking in nominal terms (which isn't relevent). You're also ignoring the duration of working life prior to retirement. It's disputable in that it's arguable, for sure. Let's turn this around. Did pensioners, historically, take more or less out of the public purse as a % of GDP than they do today?

Always just around the corner eh?

CBA to go back through your posts again now but the tax year you decided was the starting point for your point was the same as the year prior. I'm a chartered accountant, not a personal tax accountant. I work in software contracts. Even for the personal tax exams (sat longer ago than I'd care to state) it's not required to learn every allowance in every year ever...... the point is people are keeping less of the money they earn. That's indisputable. Working people are keeping even less than others. LOL. NI isn't a seperate fund. I don't really know why anyeone would imagine this. A BS allocation of money from the NI 'fund' (imaginary) is then paid out to NHS and other realms of public spending. Boomers won't have paid more NI. Employers NI is another tax on employment. If you imagine this is paid for by the company and not the employee you're deluded. You're incapable of looking through the headline statements and numbers. Not untypical of someone in your cohort (no offence). Corrrect I did mean a ddefined benefit scheme. I know you're down to petty point scoring but I am well aware of the differences. I am not confused, strangely or otherwise, I just misstyped. 'You do all want to hand money out to the whole world'? Who is 'you'? Are you generalising? Did you read it in the DM? Do you mean young people or working people or me? According to gov.uk the UK foreign aid budget was £13 billion. A chunk of cash I'll grant you. Still a fraction of what is handed out in benefits to olddies though isn't it? State pension £120bn and triple locked! NHS spending estimated 40% on them and that's before we get into social care, winter fuel, free X, Y, Z.ZDo you imagine 'you all' want to hand out ten times as much to the very cohort that blocked building enough houses? Funnier still than you imagine 'you all' (going with millenials since you've been nodescript) would want 20X that handed out to people essentially making them pay a fortune for housing and university. I kinda wish I was you. Ignorance is bliss apparently. You can pretend you paid in more than enough to justify your entitlemnts. You can even pretend you paid in more than today's workers by picking random periods of time to compare against. Seems like the national debt disagreees though. You made an assertion and I'd love to see some links. Where is the mystical NI fund on the government's balance sheet? Where is it demonstrated than Boomers have paid in more than todays workers? Why is there a national debt? Check out a chap called Paul Johson and his views on NI and the 'contribution' system. He's head of the IFS if you're not aware.

Literally, Millenials set to become richest in history as the current richest generation in history die and pass on their wealth. What a clown statement.

Again, you're being selective with your dates. It was also £6,475 in the prior year and it will be £12,750 in 2025/26 too. Taking just this very narrow history it gives an annnualised increase of 4.33%. The current RPI index from April 2009 to April 2023 is 4.1%.... No clue what inflation index you're using? Will have to see what inflation rates are for the next couple of years but that, to me, is pretty close. Second, this is only one tax threshold and refers to the personal allowance. It's another give for retirees who on typically on a lower income than when they were in work. Other thresholds have been fronzen. Higher tax hurdles introduced (£50K with child benefit reduction and £100K PA alowance abatement - so much for it increasing in real terms lol!) You think someone earning £50K today with a student loan and trying to buy a house is well off? You are living in cuckoo land my friend. Utter fantasy. Even £100K barely touches the sides for someone wanting to start a family anywhere in the South East after you've finished taking off student loans, mortgage payments etc. It's not paid from the NI fund. There's no such thing lol. They can count it seperately to track the revenue it brings in but it's BS, total BS, to say it pays the state pensions. Like arguing that 'road tax' is a thing and pays for the roads or tobacco duty pays for lung cancer treatment. The benefits of NI are no longer controbution based. It is outdated and simply another tax. You claim it covers unemplyment insurance? Really? Why wont I receive anything despite paying in for years? Ah, it's because I'm not a total moron and have savings. It was introduced the way it was so that the majority of people didn't think it was a tax lol. You seem to be arguing on the one hand it's an insurance policy, then it's a seperate fund, then it's a pay as you go system. It is purely the latter. When Boomers were working they had a lower total tax take, supported fewer retirees and could retire earlier and often on a defined contribution scheme. I'm not trying to blame them for any of this but to set things out as if it was just the same for them as the current generation is laughable.

Brilliant, falling in real terms and as an income multiple. Why? What would they have wasted in rent versus what they 'lost' on the house (can't lose if you don't sell, just like you can't win from prices rising lol) People buying with a mortgage have been handed a win with the 13% real terms reduction in their mortgage debt.

You don't need to be an accountant to understand the ddifference between a tax rate and an effective tax rate. Income tax rates have been far lower too. I recall a 10% rate. I'm early 40s. The rising of a threshold hasn't kept up with inflation and I don't recall it being increased 'hugely' either. I recall it being increased 'a bit' If you're trying to convince me that tax thresholds have increased inline with infaltion I'll want to see your working or a link to someone elses because I simply don't believe you. I do believe the IFS: https://ifs.org.uk/publications/deepening-freeze-more-adults-ever-are-paying-higher-rate-tax State pension isn't paid out of NICs. It's paid out of the DWP budget which is funded out of central government which is, turn, funded by HMRC who collect NI and Income tax (and all taxes as far as I know). You seem to be picking and choosing your dates for comparison. Boomers were working from the mid 1960s but now you're attempting to index from 2012!? Get out lol. But anyway, let's see your workings. Total tax take (and therefore effective tax rates) are higher than they've ever been while Boomers were in work. Final point I only partially agree with. You can salary sacrifice a lot of your income. £60K/year limit on pensions, cycle to work scheme and EV schemes are also avilable. Especially sensible for anyone earning more than £100K a year. Puts people in the perverse situation of literally trying get rid of this income which is otherwise taxed at a marginal rate of 62%. It's an insane political trap set by Gidiot Brown in the dying days of his failed PM project. Shame on the Tories for not fixing this. Final point - no Boomer was saddled with university debt either which is essentially a graduate tax and many Boomers got maintenance grants and were even able to sign on over the summer holidays! Those student loan repayments aren't considered here - more dark accounting by the governemnt. The burden for shouldering the cost of the ever growing and demanding olides (as a voting block, not personal obvs) is not all set out in plain sight. How any society deems it resonable to give everyone over a certain age a universsal basic income which is triple locked versus financially screwing kids starting out their lives with insane student debt and ridiculous interest rates on that debt is beyond me!

Come on mate, you've been banging that drum nearly as long as the Count of Nowhere was banging the HPC imminent one (I exagerate of course). One bank's profit warning and one economist's opinion are not a banking collapse. Many banks are reporting record profits!. In the UK banking profits for 2023 were roughly couble those in 2022. One bank having a crisis is not a banking crisis.

Incorrect on a couple of fronts. First off, the tax take hasn't been higher for boomers than it is for today's workers. Second the NI rate was 9% in the 1990s so most Boomers paid lower rates regardless. Boomers are also receiving a triple locked state pension younger than today's workers will recieve it. There are more and more people receiving an ever increasing state pension. It's insane. Outside of PAYE I recall there being 4 different classes and each having A and B. I'm a chartered accountant and even I can't be arsed rememebring it all. You touch on another point. a corporation budgets £X for a headcount. If e'ers NI stays where it is then it's all included in that budget. Again, incorrect on boomers paying more for the pension - as explained above. Note fiscal drag too. % can be lower but if the rate kicks in at a lower level of income how is thhat paying less overall? What matters is the efffective tax rate. The last post in my reply quotes the graph by Si1 demonstrating this clearly. I think reasonable people don't blame the Boomers as such, it's really the poltiical system buying their votes which is enabled by younger people not voting in the same numbers. There you go.

Look who's talking lol. Possibly the most egregious example of quantity over quality on any forum I've visited. How's your imagineary banking crisis going? I'm staggered you're still here after getting such a public whipping. PMSL.

Bumper grain harvests mean prices are plummeting lol. The biggest short bet in 20 years on corn, wheat and soy futures suggests market slump could continue. There is not a good chance inflation could get worse. It's looking increasingly likely that it'll keep falling, especially food inflation. Headline inflation in the USA now at 2.4%. You can believe what you like but the methodology for calculating CPI in the UK is clearly set out by the ONS. Perhaps you've got your own measure of it you'd share with the Forum? The only thing I could see for prices rising is an escalation of the Ukraine-Russia war.

Excactly who that is aimed at! I admit far from all retriees are in this position, but some are taking a final salary pension AND a triple locked state pension. These people have never had a higher income in their lives and yet it's working people with mortgages and children who should pay to get inflation under control and foot the bill for the lockdowns? It's utterly insane.

Have discussed people in this scenario at length with friends (all finance backgrounds but from fairly normal, lower middle class families). People from a welathy background can afford to take much bigger risks that we can so they also put themselves in a situation where they can reap much bigger rewards.

Need to insulate pensioners in all of this don't we. Can't have them paying anytihng like their fair share. I hope you're wrong but sadly I don't think you are.

Sounds like BS lol.

Cynically I've had the view that high house prices are designed to keep people working as hard as possible to be able to borrow enough to buy a place. The side effect of this is a huge amount of tax revenue. It's all very short sighted. The brightest are either leaving the UK or waiting until much later to have fewer children. Apples don't fall far from teh tree imho (old fashioned I know) so we have those from lower social-economic backgrounds outbreeding those (and staying in country) from higher social-economic backgrounds and it's all because the poltiicans fear the oldies who vote themselves largesse from the young. If the young could be bothered to vote things would change and pretty damn quickly. My advice is to put as much into your pension while you can. I susepct Labour will tinker with allowances or even the whole system and prevent further salary sacrifice contributions. The other reason is that there wont be enough people earning enough money to give millenails anything like the boomers/gen x have as their retirement entitlements.

Hits a record high for those in work. Not so much for those not in work. The generational transfer of wealth is a joke. About time retirees were placed well and truly inside the scope of NI.

Seems like we get closer and closer to that scene in The Matrix with humans in stasis in pods. WTAF is happening to people's quality of life? I don't want to wish my life away but I am so glad I'm not twenty years younger when i see stuff like this. Graduating with £50K of debt to get a job and end up living in one of these places. No wonder people aren't bothering. I'm not sure I would tbh.

I love the idea of it and I've spent time in campervans. They're a lot of fun! I think I would get bored living in one full time though. My idea is, instead, to max out my savings and pension and give myself a hard end of work date. At that point I sell up everything and relocate somewhere by the sea (Cornwall or maybe Devon). Clear the moretgage and burn down my savings pile until I'm able to take private pension. Same as you re kids and wife. I have a serious GF though who is seven years younger and I'm turning 42 this year. She might keep working either in what she does now or pehaps something else (she's quite arty so ideal for Cornwal in that sense). Then we can head out in the campervan while the weather is good and rent the house out as a holiday let. Not taking up another property with a perm air bnb and making a little money on the side. Hopefully between that and ISAs it'll be a tax free existence from that point on.

By which time we're all two years older As above, but during 2013 I had a couple of uni friends (married to each other) who bought a flat in Reading. I told them it was all BS with HTB etc and they agreed but they also pointed out (rightly in hindsight) that it'll jack prices. By not participating I missed out on an equity accrual and instead lived at home/rented for the four years until I did buy. Exactly. The number of posts I've seen on here bascially saying they're out of ammo is too big to count. Each time anyone corrects by coming up with additional ideas there's a level of vitriol levied at them. We're not even at MIRAS or government owned mortage products yet. I do dispare for the generation behhind mine. It was hard for us but it will be all but impossible for them. Many in my cohort just aren't bothering any more. Capable people who could be running businesses and generating employment would sooner just party and live in a van or some hovel spending the absolute minimum and doing a load of stuff cash in hand. They see themselves outside of the system and tbf the system has done a great job of seemingly excluding them.

I've thought about this a lot. First off, you can't retire young if you haven;t filled your pension. At least you can't have a decent standard of living without good investments behind you. If I worked hard, sacrificed a load of incoe today for income tomorrow etc and I am in fine health at 70 having enjoyed 20 years of retirement I'd be very grateful to younger me. If I dropped dead at 51 I'd be dead so I could care. It's also nice knowing that the money would go to my neices nad nephews (8 of them) which would be enough to get them all a decent deposit (if not a modest flat/terrace somewhere cheaper). Life is for living !

I didn't say cheaper than a year ago, I said cheaper than approx 6 months ago. CPI index agrees with me.