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If he wasn't so small, Ian Hislop could have that printd on a t-shirt to wear on HIOGNFU

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How many people does that employ? We also have the problem of manufacturing and engineering skills dying and not bein replaced, due to lack of apprenticships, poor salaries and engineering/manufacturing being seen as dirty, old hat and not an area to be proud to be working in. IT and Financial Services is the future for bright young things dontcha know! Manufacturing, euurrh, thats so last century and don't poor foreigners do that for us now instead?!

True, but the man on the street who only listens to headline figures and little to the detail behind it should make them think again. Most people I know arent a bull or a bear, they just listen to the headlines and have little to no interest in listening to explainations of why in either direction. They hear "Halifax reports 1.2% rise in house prices last month" and dont care about volumes relative ti historic ones, they type of houses selling or the area. They just hear that and are happy and start bleating on about how its true because Halifax have said so. By the same token, they don't understand when the reverse happens either, although they try a bit harder. But in the main, its the initial positive/negative which has the lasting impact.

I think the main issue is a negative has been returned on one of the index. We know non of them are particularly reliable in either direction, but its the sentiment aspect which is important. Just look at how some of the perma bears were bottling it a few months back after a few m-o-m positive results from halifax/nationwide. If that could spook them, then what was it doing for the positivity of the vast majority who think rising house prices are a good thing? Accurate or not, we need some negative reports just to drip in that element of doubt again. The amount of people I've heard of late proclaiming its all over now and prices will rise forever once again has been ridiculous!!

Quick quick, before you are left behind again forever http://uk.news.yahoo.com/21/20091009/tuk-most-renters-better-off-buying-home-6323e80.html

John Smiths non cream flow 4% to 3.8%. Boddingtons creamflow 3.8% to 3.5%. Carling 4.1% to 4% are just a few I've noticed. Also, £14 for 20 packs now rather than 24 packs. Bull brand fag papers were 10 for a quid in the pound shop, now 8 for a quid (still same size box, just 2 less in).

Don't get too optimistic, the last comment Osborne made on Radio 4 this morning was something along the lines of not allowing high interest rates again due to them causing unemployment They might be forced to raise them due to external issues, but it sounds like it's something they will only do grudgingly . Looks like my dream of instantly jacking them up to 5% plus is purely that!

I've twice had my local Natwest branch call me about this, first to let me know, second to chase me up to see if I'm interested. I don't really want my money tied up for 2 years, but compared with what is out there, I'm thinking of putting a bundle in, plus maybe withdrawing a years worth of ISA contributions to go in there as well. If I can leave it for 15 months so at least get 12 months at that rate, then if its worth taking out to put into something with a better rate, it will at least offset some of the interest lost due to early closure. If things haven't changed much interest wise it can stay. The money is intended for a house, so I shouldn't be needing it any time soon!!

Solves the UK's problems by the looks of things.

I cant even see the poll to be able to vote! This is shite.

Very true. I happened to get lucky first time round and am more than happy to travel an hour each way to keep with her, rather than find myself a new dentist closer to where I am now. Some things are worth it! Plus she is very fit which is an added bonus and it does take your mind off what she is actually up to somewhat! Same with my car. Its hassle using the garage I have for many years as no longer live in the same town, but I'm far happier to majke the efforts to get it back there than just trust it to any old place near by. My mechanic isnt fit though, although as its noty me being operated on, I don't need something to take my mind off it!

As with everything, there are good ones and bad ones, honest and dishonest. You just have to hope you drop luckily thats all.

I fancy the **** off my dentist, I wish I could see her more often than every 6 months. Trouble is I'm usually slurring too much after to ask for her phone number.

50K isnt enough for that.....yet

Just been on the phone with the Natwest, they were trying to get me to tie into their new 2 year fixed rate bond. Anyway, the lady asked what my longer term plans were for my money and would I like to look at something longer term. No, I said, I want to keep it pretty free as its all for a house and I dont want it tied up. She then starts creaming herself asking when I'm intending on buying. I dont know, but not until the election is out the way at least as I expect significant falls still to come, maybe 12 to 18 months and then I'll see. Oh, she says, but I heard only this morning on the BBC that house prices are going back up again. Could I interest you in our 90%, 5 year fix, no fee, 5.95% mortgage? No, I replied, I'm not interested in what the BBC say, the fact is housing is being underpinned by low volume and cash buyers panicing about inflation due to the government pumping billions of pounds of printed money into the economy. There are still significant falls to come and I can wait longer than the government can prop it up for. There was a few seconds of silence as this flew over her head before she asked if I would still like to make an appointment with her! I politely declined

And not just quality. Lead time, the ability to get product in days not weeks. Fleibility, the ability to be able call up a supplier who has cocked up and get them on site within hours to rectify the problem, rather than wait 14 wks for some more to be sent over by sea. The ability to get an engineer to come up and discuss better/more efficient designs. Everyone just thinks China = cheaper = we can't compete. On low quality high volume maybe, but there is plenty more where we are streets ahead and can remain so if the image of "filthy old manufacturing is soooooo last century, its all about shiney service sectors and banking" was tackled and its wealth creating benefits sold to the nation.

With due respect, I prefer to use my own experince rather than cooked government figures when it comes to the state of the industry. Re-badging and re-packaging and slapping 'made in the UK' stickers on things is not what I consider high value creating manufacturing.

So you get a net energy balance of zero. But surely the benefit is in providing work, which will be taxable and will give more people money to spend in the economy? Ok, its a bit like paying people to dig holes and others to fill them in again, but surely people working doing this is better than them sat on their sofa claiming benefits?

Well in the last decade I've noticed all the engineers are 10 years older, there has been no youth or apprentiships coming through anywhere where I've seen. I do believe like you it will come back for the same reasons. I also said a couple of years ago we should look to re-open some pits. Might as well employ people to do something benefical for the country than just sit on their back sides claiming dole and watching Trisha! Its funny, I was thinking only this weekend what a benefit my other halfs Dad's house has with both central heating and open fires downstairs. Once its too expensive to run the central heating you can still ensure you have a lovely warm room or two!!

Absolutely +1!! Even back in the early part of this decade as I was having to break the news to yet another high quailty fabricator or machine shop that we would now be going elsewhere (Poland, China) for the products, I said that eventually this will turn around again as prices would start to rise out there due to demand and once poor quality, the loss of responsivness and delayed shipping times started to highlight the true bottom line cost, rather than just the piece price quoted cost, then manufacturing would start to come back to these shores once again. I still live in hope. I just fear all the experience will have will have died by the time our folly is fully realised, as we aint passing these skills onto anyone as the industry is slowly wound down.

+1

Well GOMR all I can do is like you, use my eyes, ears and experience. I've been a buyer in the manufacturing sector for over a decade. All I've seen is quality companies closing down and the work shifting abroad to lesser quality, but far far cheaper sources which means parts shipped from the other side of the world is still far more cost effective than making them in the UK. I've worked in aerospace, rail, hydraulics and heavy industry and I've yet to see any of the suppliers I've used over the years actually grow in size. I've seen many shed jobs, I've seen a number go under. I've been made redundant twice, one due to offshoring of jobs, the second due to the loss of a big contract overseas. Luckily they were during the 'good times' and I managed to find re-employment reasonably quickly afterwards. All I'm hearing from my suppliers now is utter doom and gloom. I fear should redundancy number 3 come along, that will be the end of my time in the manufacturing sector.

Look, at the end of the day, the fox hunting ban, like the smoking ban, only ever had a very small number of real, genuine supporters. However, both provided a fantastic bandwagon for people to exude sanctimony which just couldnt be missed. Glad to hear fox hunting still continues in the main. Shame the ethos of the great British boozer has been completely destroyed though.

There was a homosexual, a hetrosexual and bisexual having a drink in a bar. They had a great night.........