The Protests At The Boe Yesterday

[Gone baby gone]

Not quite.

The real trick is to perform a move which I shall call the reverse kettle. Lots of smaller groups trapping policemen.

That's kind of what I was thinking, and also popping up where you are not expected so the police have to change plans on the hoof. If you look at some of the footage shot yesterday, it looks like the police were often surrounded in smallish groups by a large number of protesters. When this happens they bash their way out using shields and truncheons. I would advise any protesters to take a shield of their own. The police tactics only work if the front line of the protectors is unprotected. If they had a bunch of people with say, motorbike helmets and body armour standing in front of the baton wielding-cops, it would be easier to advance on them.

The problem with yesterday's protest was the plan was available to the police months in advance. A bit of creative thinking is what's required.

[0q0]

I'm telling you, because I saw it with my own eye's it was NOT a peaceful protest. The police don't kettle in 99% of protests in this country. Only the violent ones.

I've great respect for your opinions KB, but you need to read some news reports including The Guardian's, there seem to be plenty of reports suggesting what you saw may not be universal and the command took the decision to kettle everyone; that is frankly disgraceful if true.

There needs to be an investigation into why this kettling was implemented, there needs to be concrete certainty that only offenders are penned in like that, not ordinary people who came out to democratically protest and needed to leave because they had to collect kids from school, take their medication, go to the loo, whatever.

I am very concerned, KB.

[Britney's Piers]

There was a good post by cells the other day, about how when you help a man by giving huim money at first he is grateful, but keep on giving him money and he will look at it not as help, but a right. Then start to hate the person giving it to him if the money is ever cut off.

This was is reference to the doleys but clearly the same principle obviously appllies to these RBS workers and whoever else in the city is safe in their jobs because of other people's tax money. They are treating the tax payer with contempt just like the dole scum do, even though they are both happy to take the handouts/bailouts.

[Guest sillybear2]

I was at work in the City of London making money for me and my bank so that I could pay loads and loads of tax (minus the avoidance scheme) to pay for the police operation and the cleanup operation. How can you condone smashing up the windows and looting a government office? Why can't the protestors take their litter home? Do the protestors have a clue about financial markets, derivatives etc? No.

Do the "market participants" or the banks have a clue about financial markets, derivatives? No! As for litter, if your little chums hadn't of dumped billions of toxic sh1t on the tax payer I'd take lessons from you about rubbish and civil behavior.

[evictee]

That's kind of what I was thinking, and also popping up where you are not expected so the police have to change plans on the hoof.

http://www.xkcd.com/426/

[Britney's Piers]

Do the "market participants" or the banks have a clue about financial markets, derivatives? No! As for litter, if your little chums hadn't of dumped billions of toxic sh1t on the tax payer I'd take lessons from you about rubbish and civil behavior.

They are the "masters of the universe" dontcha know.

[missedtheboat]

So would it be a bit wimpy of me to be angry about the bailouts? Am I a bit of a drip to be angry about a house costing a kings ransom, and having no backbone because I am funding my landlords pension, but not able to have one of my own? The whole point of protesting is because one is pissed off and wants to demonstrate that!

The thing is, yes there were a few nobs there, but the old people and people on their own like me could have easily been let out with an escort one by one AGES BEFORE it really did start to go off! They were very much trying to put us off demonstrating again, at the risk of lives, and it was unneccesary!!

Also, I really didn't know that they did that penning in thing, it was terrifying to be in, people were being crushed(I actually didn't mind the being held part, it was the crushing and panic that was dreadful and vindictive) as far as I was concerned, I was behaving legally to go down there and have my presence felt. And you know what, I was part of something that caused great embarrassment to the person I employ to run my country, I am glad I got off my **** to go and protest about something I have been 'crying' about since 2005, I am just surprised at my lack of freedom really.

Alright tw@t?

Well now you know. I saw it first hand last time, and it's amazing how many socialist action people there always are, along with some prone to violence anarchists.

If you didn't know you were mixing yourself in with them, then poor you. Now you know.

[libspero]

I doubt many people on this site can explain exactly what derivatives have brought the system down.

Not an expert in the area.. but as an outside guess CDS on ABS?

[smiffy1967]

Do the banks? No.

At least I had the decency to stop working in financial services when it all blew up. Get a proper job you unwashed, handout(bailout)-scrounging hippie.

Get a proper job you unwashed coke snorting, handout(bailout)-scrounging hippie.

[giveusthefacts]

So would it be a bit wimpy of me to be angry about the bailouts? Am I a bit of a drip to be angry about a house costing a kings ransom, and having no backbone because I am funding my landlords pension, but not able to have one of my own? The whole point of protesting is because one is pissed off and wants to demonstrate that!

The thing is, yes there were a few nobs there, but the old people and people on their own like me could have easily been let out with an escort one by one AGES BEFORE it really did start to go off! They were very much trying to put us off demonstrating again, at the risk of lives, and it was unneccesary!!

Also, I really didn't know that they did that penning in thing, it was terrifying to be in, people were being crushed(I actually didn't mind the being held part, it was the crushing and panic that was dreadful and vindictive) as far as I was concerned, I was behaving legally to go down there and have my presence felt. And you know what, I was part of something that caused great embarrassment to the person I employ to run my country, I am glad I got off my **** to go and protest about something I have been 'crying' about since 2005, I am just surprised at my lack of freedom really.

Alright tw@t?

You have hit the nail on the head - Thank you

[Guest UK Debt Slave]

At the BOE protesters had written slogans in chalk, and one protester scaled the columns and hung 2 anti capitalist banners. No permanent damage done.

The storming of RBS. I am not surprised, RBS staff were stood in the windows goading the anarchists on, waving wads of cash and making gestures. That's not an excuse, it's an explanation.

I was watching that guy climbing the columns around the BoE too so you were probably only a few yards from me

Pretty scary watching him up there it was too

My biggest lasting impression was a copper in a bit of a panic saying to his colleague, "They are worse than terrorists." implying that everyone there was there to cause trouble and destroy property which of course is ridiculous

I said to him, "Are you comparing me to a terrorist?"

To which he replied, waving a baton in my face, "Are you listening to a private conversation?"

I didn't want to get a battering and moved on, managing to slip through the cordon and retreat to a pub.

[Guest UK Debt Slave]

I am truly shocked and shaken to read that. This is not the Britain I had ever expected to see as I grew up, this reads like a nightmare from some communist or oppressive state.

It is!

[KingBingo]

I've great respect for your opinions KB, but you need to read some news reports including The Guardian's, there seem to be plenty of reports suggesting what you saw may not be universal and the command took the decision to kettle everyone; that is frankly disgraceful if true.

Actually I don't think I do need to read the Guardians reports. I was there, I saw it with my own eyes. Even before lunch time you had small gangs of trouble makers throwing glass bottles, plastic bottles full of piss etc at police. I saw right in front of my own eyes groups egging on the police, screaming abuse at them. These groups just got bolder and bolder and their numbers grew as by-standers decided they would have a go too. I saw pelnty of the protest area on the southside of threadneedle and around cannon street and bank.

There needs to be an investigation into why this kettling was implemented,

There was back in 2000 I think, the Oxford square one.

there needs to be concrete certainty that only offenders are penned in like that, not ordinary people who came out to democratically protest and needed to leave because they had to collect kids from school, take their medication, go to the loo, whatever.

Ordinary people vote at the ballot box, something in the region of 25m of them I believe.

What we had yesterday was maybe 5000 people who wanted to be disruptive. They did not hesitate to disrupt the place of work for thousands of people who work in the City. I am glad that some of the inconvenience they merrily inflicted on City workers got dealt back to them. If they wanted to protest in an open space like a field outside the M25 they would not have been kettled. No, they came into the middle of the financial sector with their masks on and attempted to intimidate those of us going about our lawful business just like we do on every other working day of the year.

Well I bloody well refuse to be intimidated by these idiots, which is why I did not stay away and why I wore a suit.

I asked quite a few why they were there and none of them could articulate why. The closest i got was a old fashioned leftie stood around Cannon street, who had the good sense to distance himself from the trouble makers who confensed he was ashamed of the modern left, he explained they don't stand for anything, they are only against stuff. He was'nt kettled, because he had the sense to give the violent ones a width birth.

[Guest UK Debt Slave]

Actually I don't think I do need to read the Guardians reports. I was there, I saw it with my own eyes. Even before lunch time you had small gangs of trouble makers throwing glass bottles, plastic bottles full of piss etc at police. I saw right in front of my own eyes groups egging on the police, screaming abuse at them. These groups just got bolder and bolder and their numbers grew as by-standers decided they would have a go too. I saw pelnty of the protest area on the southside of threadneedle and around cannon street and bank.

There was back in 2000 I think, the Oxford square one.

Ordinary people vote at the ballot box, something in the region of 25m of them I believe.

What we had yesterday was maybe 5000 people who wanted to be disruptive. They did not hesitate to disrupt the place of work for thousands of people who work in the City. I am glad that some of the inconvenience they merrily inflicted on City workers got dealt back to them. If they wanted to protest in an open space like a field outside the M25 they would not have been kettled. No, they came into the middle of the financial sector with their masks on and attempted to intimidate those of us going about our lawful business just like we do on every other working day of the year.

Well I bloody well refuse to be intimidated by these idiots, which is why I did not stay away and why I wore a suit.

I asked quite a few why they were there and none of them could articulate why. The closest i got was a old fashioned leftie stood around Cannon street, who had the good sense to distance himself from the trouble makers who confensed he was ashamed of the modern left, he explained they don't stand for anything, they are only against stuff. He was'nt kettled, because he had the sense to give the violent ones a width birth.

Yote for WHAT a$$hat?

[KingBingo]

Yote for WHAT a$$hat?

If you believe Labour can do the right thing vote for them.

If you believe the Tories can do the right thing vote for them.

If you believe the lib dems or other minor parties can do the right thing vote for them.

If none of them fit your views stand for office yourself, it only cost £500. If you stand for office and not enough people vote for you perhaps you need to accept that your view is not widely shared, and at that point you either need to accept democracy or try and overthrow it. I suspect a large number of those there yesterday fall into the latter camp. If they are an enemy of democracy, then they are my enemy too, because democracy is the least worse system we have.

[0q0]

Actually I don't think I do need to read the Guardians reports. I was there, I saw it with my own eyes. Even before lunch time you had small gangs of trouble makers throwing glass bottles, plastic bottles full of piss etc at police. I saw right in front of my own eyes groups egging on the police, screaming abuse at them. These groups just got bolder and bolder and their numbers grew as by-standers decided they would have a go too. I saw pelnty of the protest area on the southside of threadneedle and around cannon street and bank.

I don't question what you saw, and I don't blame you for not wanting to be intimidated. But people have a democratic right to protest, and doing so in a field or doing so in Threadneedle Street is their right.

There was within the BBC1 main 6pm news an eyewitness claiming to have been penned in, and she was no trouble-maker.

Can't get away from the fact that this kettling went too far, far too far.

Sorry KB, can't allow some urine-chucking yobs to suppress other people's right to protest. That wrong doesn't make a right, otherwise you could just make the excuse at every turn that such and such has been banned because there are a few who make it necessary. So bang go a whole raft of freedoms. No! Our democracy is about maintaining our peaceful freedoms, no matter how inconvenient to you and other City workers etc that might be.

[Guest UK Debt Slave]

If you believe Labour can do the right thing vote for them.

If you believe the Tories can do the right thing vote for them.

If you believe the lib dems or other minor parties can do the right thing vote for them.

If none of them fit your views stand for office yourself, it only cost £500. If you stand for office and not enough people vote for you perhaps you need to accept that your view is not widely shared, and at that point you either need to accept democracy or try and overthrow it. I suspect a large number of those there yesterday fall into the latter camp. If they are an enemy of democracy, then they are my enemy too, because democracy is the least worse system we have.

Are you insane?

There is no democracy.

There's nobody to vote FOR.

You're right. I could form my own political party. It would be a waste of money and time because if it was successful, the political elite and the media would crush it. Just look at what has happened to the BNP and UKIP. They can't make any inroads into the system. I don't support the BNP because they are socialists at heart and I'm NOT a socialist. UKIP was more of a danger but the elite infiltrated it and destroyed it from the inside out before it had a chance of becoming too powerful.

Your quaint notions of democracy are a bit pathetic mate. There is no fekkn democracy.

[50%deposit]

personally i always think that the government want people to protest and that protest is a trap. they want to be able to demonstrate that they are in charge. If everyone inored the government and refused to deal with them that would be far more effective. If a politician knocked on my door I would tell them to go away and that i dont deal with evil people. i might not use those words but thats what i would mean.

I view protest like resistance in a circuit. I remember it clearly fro when i worked in a call center, they wanted me to resist. I was reading about CMOS at the time and in there they use resistors to help boost voltage across transistors and diodes etc. Essentially, the resistance allowed them to use higher voltage/current that would otherwise melt the system. In short, they want it, and giving them what they want is counter productive.

What they dont want is for it to be common knowledge that there is no faith, and we could, in theory all achieve that. We could all put NO FAITH stickers in our windows, refuse to talk to MPs, the police, council staff etc etc. Alienation is a far stronger weapon. Polititians will always use the fact that they are working for the people as their main reason detre, but if it was unequvicably clear that that was false they wouldn't have a leg to stand on.

How much ecconomic stimulus do yesterdays marches achieve?

How much did it justify their totalitarian police regiem?

It was, in effect, counterproductive.

I will never vote for anyone that does not have the death sentance on their agenda, and as such i will never vote. I see this as straight forward as a girl refusing to smile while she is being raped. the result is that she will never smile again, therefore she is cutting off her nose to spite her face and she should learn to make the most of things. NO.

Yesterday a dude was jailed for 4 years for killing a man in a supermarket. 4 years.....? wow. Thats not long. That could have been your friend. in 4 years he'll be out and laughing, telling jokes about how he killed someone, what a character. This country is EVIL. QED.

[Guest UK Debt Slave]

personally i always think that the government want people to protest and that protest is a trap. they want to be able to demonstrate that they are in charge. If everyone inored the government and refused to deal with them that would be far more effective. If a politician knocked on my door I would tell them to go away and that i dont deal with evil people. i might not use those words but thats what i would mean.

Totally agree

And this is the most likely outcome

Once that starts to happen, the state will show its real colours and they will be exposed for the fascist scumbags they really are.

Not a great outome either.

Ultimately, I fear there will not be a peaceful outcome to all of this. More and more people will be forced into conflict with the state as people decide they have dhad enough of being treated like cattle, having their assets and wealth seized and their freedoms and liberties steamrollered into history.

[smiffy1967]

I was watching that guy climbing the columns around the BoE too so you were probably only a few yards from me

Pretty scary watching him up there it was too

My biggest lasting impression was a copper in a bit of a panic saying to his colleague, "They are worse than terrorists." implying that everyone there was there to cause trouble and destroy property which of course is ridiculous

I said to him, "Are you comparing me to a terrorist?"

To which he replied, waving a baton in my face, "Are you listening to a private conversation?"

I didn't want to get a battering and moved on, managing to slip through the cordon and retreat to a pub.

So he was having a private convesrsation in public, what a **** he must have been to come out with such rubbish, they certainly have lowered the bar to enter the police these days, ******ing t*****ers the lot of them, brain dead tools of the state.

[Guest UK Debt Slave]

So he was having a private convesrsation in public, what a **** he must have been to come out with such rubbish, they certainly have lowered the bar to enter the police these days, ******ing t*****ers the lot of them, brain dead tools of the state.

Apart form being an ignorant dick, people like this are enforcing 'the law' in this country

If you ain't terrified AND outraged, you bloody well ought to be.

[KingBingo]

Are you insane?

There is no democracy.

There's nobody to vote FOR.

You're right. I could form my own political party. It would be a waste of money and time because if it was successful, the political elite and the media would crush it. Just look at what has happened to the BNP and UKIP. They can't make any inroads into the system.

Because the people do not support them.

The version of democracy we have is far from ideal, but its still better than any alternative I have ever seen.

What political system do you propose?

[bobmo]

As far as i know the police first used the kettling tactic in Oxford Circus about 6 or 7 years ago. Demonstrators and a lot of people who had being going about their daily business were trapped for hours on end. There were some court cases and it was ruled that kettling is legal.

I was there yesterday and was constantly looking behind me to see what the police were upto. I didn't get trapped but got the afternoon off work by telling my boss that I was.

[bobmo]

Because the people do not support them.

The version of democracy we have is far from ideal, but its still better than any alternative I have ever seen.

What political system do you propose?

I would reform the voting system so a party can't get a majority in the house of commons by winning a minority of the vote.

[Pindar]

The whole thing was an operation designed to quell popular resentment at the banks and the bailouts. The crowd control was arranged so that the crowd would be forced towards the RBS building and the media machine was standing by to film it for the world. British people see RBS building on TV with a few windows smashed and think "oh, they got their come-uppance" and hey presto, you've placated most of the opposition to more handouts for these parasites. It's shameful that the control freaks who orchestrated this stunt are in power but their days are numbered, just like those of communist Russia were numbered in 1989. The cat's out of the bag now.