Kingston Upon Thames

[worried1]

Isnt KOT in danger from all the no-go areas in south london that are surrrounding it?

I actually think that Kingston is very well insulated. It's main neighbours to the north are Richmond and Wimbledon, which are still amongst the nicest and safest area in London. The rougher parts of these boroughs (Colliers Wood, Streatham etc) are miles away from Kingston. The only slightly bad place that is nearby is Roehampton, and that is still a good few miles away. This is one of the advantages of Kingston being so far out. Elmbridge is to the south, and I think it will be a good few years before anyone can describe any part of that borough as being a no-go area!

The only real downside to Kingston comes from within the borough itself. The council seems to lack the power to say no to the development of massive nightclubs, and the problems emanating from those dominate large parts of the town centre at night. The vast majority of people involved in incidents are attracted from outside the borough by the clubs, but that does not help the 'normal' local people who come out to the town centre to go to the cinema etc.

The council are also to blame for the lack of investment in the large council estates around the borough, and they have become much worse than they should be.

In the scheme of things, these are very minor downsides and I would expect most people that don't live right in the town centre or near one of the estates to enjoy a very good standard of life in Kingston. Certain parts of the area really are excellent. This situation is bound to decline in the coming years as it does everywhere, but I am not worried about Kingston being worse affected than anywhere else.

[kittingerjump]

Isnt KOT in danger from all the no-go areas in south london that are surrrounding it?

I hope you are having a joke?! I think we are a little way off barbed wire fences with searchlights and security teams from dusk onwards! Kingston has it's pro and cons like all suburbs of London. It has been overpriced and still is imo. I've lived in far worse places than KT.

The only real downside to Kingston comes from within the borough itself. The council seems to lack the power to say no to the development of massive nightclubs, and the problems emanating from those dominate large parts of the town centre at night. The vast majority of people involved in incidents are attracted from outside the borough by the clubs, but that does not help the 'normal' local people who come out to the town centre to go to the cinema etc.

I agree with you on the attitude of the council. I think they havne't though clearly about how this area should be developed and have made some shocking decisions in terms of development. Basically putting short term money gains ahead of long term planning. There is however only one massive nightclub (that has been shut now for six months) and that came a long time ago. Kingston does attract people from other areas and a well known club does bring all sorts but compared to areas such as Croyden it's not a complete disaster! Kingston has crime but tell me a place that doesn't (in London!) I also think don't tar the majority but the actions (or threats) of the few, most of the kids out all come from well to do backgrounds and the bravardo comes from chatter and being excited being out. In some respects the center feels a little better than a few years back.

The council are also to blame for the lack of investment in the large council estates around the borough, and they have become much worse than they should be.

Ever since I've known Kingston the estates have run down. I reckon they could do with proper investment.

On another note, has anyone else had a problem with the recyling collection? It seems random in terms of collection days/times/some things get collected others left for no apparent reason.

[worried1]

I agree with you on the attitude of the council. I think they havne't though clearly about how this area should be developed and have made some shocking decisions in terms of development. Basically putting short term money gains ahead of long term planning. There is however only one massive nightclub (that has been shut now for six months) and that came a long time ago. Kingston does attract people from other areas and a well known club does bring all sorts but compared to areas such as Croyden it's not a complete disaster! Kingston has crime but tell me a place that doesn't (in London!) I also think don't tar the majority but the actions (or threats) of the few, most of the kids out all come from well to do backgrounds and the bravardo comes from chatter and being excited being out. In some respects the center feels a little better than a few years back.

There is more than one massive nightclub - I can think of three off hand; Oceana, The Works and McCluskys. I hope it is The Works that has shut as that seemed the most troublesome of the three. If you add Lloyds number 1 bar to the list, I think you would be talking about the four places that attract 80-90% of the police call outs in the whole borough after dark!

In some respects, it is ridiculous even to talk about 'trouble' in Kingston. I have lived in the area for years, and I have never seen as much trouble in Kingston as I have in places like Guildford and Brighton. I actually can't thing of a similarly sized town (London or not) where there is much less trouble than in Kingston. I agree with you about the bravado, but I can understand how that would be very threatening to people who are not used to it. It is mainly the student community and those from surrounding areas rather than the local kids that seem to cause the problems.

Unfortunately, the current government seems to have further converted the largest 100 or so town centres into regional hubs that are designed to attract people from further away rather than provide amenities for those who actually live there. Kingston isn't as badly affected as some as there are still certain areas you can go to in an evening without being surrounded by thousands of 18-20 year old kids.

[worried1]

Ever since I've known Kingston the estates have run down. I reckon they could do with proper investment.

On another note, has anyone else had a problem with the recyling collection? It seems random in terms of collection days/times/some things get collected others left for no apparent reason.

Absolutely. The Cambridge Estate is one of the worst council estates I have ever seen, you would expect it to be in Hackney rather than Kingston. The problem is that it has dragged the whole of that locale with it. Houses on Kingston Road are half the price of similar equivalents in better parts of town.

Recycling and refuse collection has always been bad in Kingston, but has got worse in the last couple of years because they continue to fragment it rather than have one consolidated approach for the area. We often dont get a collection at all when we are supposed to, but the thing that amazes me is that they don't even recycle some of the basics like cardboard. Not good for the borough with the highest council tax in London.

[crm114]

I was surprised today to receive a findaproperty update with 5 new houses in North Kingston satisfying my criteria (>3 beds + < £600k). Over the past few months I've been lucky to have been apprised of one of two a week. All of these new ones have peak asking prices however. I have a feeling that there's a lot of pent-up supply :-) out there and perhaps the recent nationwide (or was it Halifax; I can't remember) blip has enticed them out.

BTW I notice more and more vacated commercial premises in Kingston. Of course this is inevitable.

[worried1]

I was surprised today to receive a findaproperty update with 5 new houses in North Kingston satisfying my criteria (>3 beds + < £600k). Over the past few months I've been lucky to have been apprised of one of two a week. All of these new ones have peak asking prices however. I have a feeling that there's a lot of pent-up supply :-) out there and perhaps the recent nationwide (or was it Halifax; I can't remember) blip has enticed them out.

BTW I notice more and more vacated commercial premises in Kingston. Of course this is inevitable.

Some people are starting to chase the market down now. This house has been reduced from £770k to £559k in about a year on the market. That is a 27% drop, although I think this may be an error as the other agents that this is on with have both reduced it to £599k rather than £559k!

http://www.findaproperty.com/displayprop.a...amp;pid=3293674

This is not in the most expensive part of Surbiton, but would probably have sold for £700k at peak. I guess they would accept £500k now.

This is one of the only decent reductions that I have seen in the £500k+ section of the market. It does not take too many before the vendors asking 2007 prices start to look a bit silly. I am not too sure about pent up supply in this area of the market. I can't see that many people having an appetite to sell at 30% less than they could have got 2 years ago, so it will only be forced sellers and the few enlightened sellers who have managed to negotiate a similar discount elsewhere.

The amount of vacant retail units in Kingston (and Surbiton) seems to increase on a daily basis. It will be interesting to see if they go ahead with the much delayed 'K+20' scheme to add even more retail space into the town centre.

[worried1]

I have just heard an interesting story that seems very indicative of the current market.

Those who have lived in the area for some time may remember a small Shell petrol station situated on the main Portsmouth Road on the border with Surbiton. This shut down (along with about 80% of the filling stations in the area) about 6 or 7 years ago, and has been surrounded by high blue 'temporary' fences ever since.

The owner of the site gained planning permission for 6 houses (3 bed semis), and put the plot on the market about 3 years ago for £3m. Even at the height of the boom, this seemed ridiculously high. The location is great (right on the river, under 10 mins walk to both Kingston and Surbiton), but it is on a very main road, and the plot sizes were tiny as the whole site is no more than a quarter of an acre).

Unsurprisingly, no one was interested in buying this site and having to sell each 2,000 sqft house with tiny garden for well in excess of £750k to make a small profit.

Kingston council have just approved permission for a 'temporary car washing business' to use the site until 2011. Is this the start of Kingston council trying to turn the riverside area into an industrial estate, similar to the one Elmbridge council have created just over the border in Long/Thames Ditton?

[Bosh]

We got hitched on Ravens Ait Island and I understand that that as a buisness has gone bust now. I know the garage you are talking about and we have always commented on those poor suckers behind who will soon have buildings blocking the view of the river much more than a petrol station ever would.

We kept saying it for years but thanks to you, now we know why it has not happened.

[worried1]

We got hitched on Ravens Ait Island and I understand that that as a buisness has gone bust now. I know the garage you are talking about and we have always commented on those poor suckers behind who will soon have buildings blocking the view of the river much more than a petrol station ever would.

We kept saying it for years but thanks to you, now we know why it has not happened.

Ravens Ait went bust just before Christmas - not really surprising considering that it hardly ever seemed to host more than one event per week outside of the busy wedding season. Rumour has it that it is to be reopened as a pub/restaurant during the week, and still doing the weddings on the weekends. I doubt it will happen for a while.

Noise is the problem for river view houses and flats in South Kingston/Surbiton. It is a great view as you can see right across Bushy/Home Parks to the palace, BUT you have to contend with the roaring Portsmouth Road all of the time. I would not be surprised if some of the residents of the flats behind don't mind something being built to shield them from the noise!

Prices are actually more expensive in the roads leading off Portsmouth Road as you lose most of the noise. It is a very convenient location and you can walk to the river in seconds, but view-wise you could be living in any suburban road.

[kittingerjump]

I have just heard an interesting story that seems very indicative of the current market.

Great, I've finally learnt the history of that place. To be fair anything is better than a boarded up place, but it's just another example of Kingston council squeezing any remaining bit of land into either flats/bars/industry. I know it's down to the owner, but even a temporary play area / garden / something a little more atheistically interesting wouldn't be the worst thing in the world. I imagine a hellish view that Kingston must be to anyone that lived here a while back. I also don't mind building new and tastefully designed buildings but those riverside flats are a joke and even more so to the people that have paid full whack for them. I feel a rant coming on!....

[quine]

Oops not been able to paste the picture (doh).

This property, on Lower Ham Road, was originally on with Palladin Properties for over £1m (about 9 months ago). Now reduced to £675 with Waterview!

http://www.waterview.co.uk/details.dtx?pro...AD-0794F93A8A02

Lower Ham Road, Kingston, KT2

Slideshow Map Printable

Price: £675,000

Status: For sale

Tenure: Freehold

4 Bedrooms

A three/four bedroom detached home situated on a corner plot, built circa 1917 with the extended ground floor offering several rooms which could be used as treatment rooms/offices, spacious main reception room, kitchen and bathroom. The ground floor has D1 consent in place and there is off street parking for several cars and a garage.

- Three/Four Bedrooms

- Corner Plot

- 150 Yards from the River Thames

- D1 Consent

- Extended Ground Floor with Several Spare Rooms

- Off Street Parking and Garage

Contact Information

Waterview

Thames Ditton Marina Portsmouth Road

Thames Ditton

KT6 5QD

Telephone: 020 8398 8550

Email: thamesditton@waterview.co.uk

Email a friend Arrange a viewing

Call me back Register with us

[worried1]

Great, I've finally learnt the history of that place. To be fair anything is better than a boarded up place, but it's just another example of Kingston council squeezing any remaining bit of land into either flats/bars/industry. I know it's down to the owner, but even a temporary play area / garden / something a little more atheistically interesting wouldn't be the worst thing in the world. I imagine a hellish view that Kingston must be to anyone that lived here a while back. I also don't mind building new and tastefully designed buildings but those riverside flats are a joke and even more so to the people that have paid full whack for them. I feel a rant coming on!....

Exactly my view. I am hoping that the currently boarded up area on Maple Road will turn into this type of play/public area on a temporary basis. It hasn't happened in the past, but now that the builders cannot afford to build on these sites it might just change.

It would be interesting to see what Kingston would have looked like 50 years ago. The council seems to have become particularly lax in the 1960's and 70's by allowing a lot of ugly concrete blocks of flats and offices to be built. Since then, it just seems to have given up and anything goes now.

This is a great shame as Kingston actually has some of the best and most interesting architecture of anywhere in the local area. You can still see a lot of it as you walk around the town, but it is so dominated by overbearing modern developments that the overall feeling is lost.

It is the same in the residential areas. Somewhere like Lovelace Road in Surbiton used to be a fabulous street of large, detached houses. Now it is a street of 1970's concrete blocks of flats with the odd house left there. This is repeated to a lesser extent all over Kingston and Surbiton.

I can understand the need for flats, given that this is now a London suburb rather than the outlying area it was 50 years ago, but conversions of the original houses would have at least maintained a lot of the look and feel of the area that is now lost.

[Mrs Bear]

Absolutely. The Cambridge Estate is one of the worst council estates I have ever seen, you would expect it to be in Hackney rather than Kingston. The problem is that it has dragged the whole of that locale with it. Houses on Kingston Road are half the price of similar equivalents in better parts of town.

Recycling and refuse collection has always been bad in Kingston, but has got worse in the last couple of years because they continue to fragment it rather than have one consolidated approach for the area. We often dont get a collection at all when we are supposed to, but the thing that amazes me is that they don't even recycle some of the basics like cardboard. Not good for the borough with the highest council tax in London.

Very late replying to this - been on hols for a couple of weeks.

We've been getting cardboard collection for a few months now - they reorganised it a while back, giving us new wheelie bins for landfill, a brown bin for food waste, a white bag for cardboard, plus the old green boxes for paper, glass, textiles etc. Haven't they rolled this out yet where you are? I'm in KT2. They're now collecting all the recyclables once a week, with the landfill collected on alternate weeks, but at least all on the same day.

First few weeks were unreliable, different collectors turning up 2 days late*, etc. but it seems to be working reasonably OK now.

*Our day is Monday - I phoned the council when various stuff still hadn't been collected by Weds. morning - person I spoke to asked me to be patient! I said, 'I think I have been pretty patient since it was supposed to have been collected 2 days ago.' !!!

[worried1]

Very late replying to this - been on hols for a couple of weeks.

We've been getting cardboard collection for a few months now - they reorganised it a while back, giving us new wheelie bins for landfill, a brown bin for food waste, a white bag for cardboard, plus the old green boxes for paper, glass, textiles etc. Haven't they rolled this out yet where you are? I'm in KT2. They're now collecting all the recyclables once a week, with the landfill collected on alternate weeks, but at least all on the same day.

First few weeks were unreliable, different collectors turning up 2 days late*, etc. but it seems to be working reasonably OK now.

*Our day is Monday - I phoned the council when various stuff still hadn't been collected by Weds. morning - person I spoke to asked me to be patient! I said, 'I think I have been pretty patient since it was supposed to have been collected 2 days ago.' !!!

Well it is good to hear that it is working relatively well in some parts of the borough. As I understand it, flats are excluded from the new process, but quite a number of streets in KT6 and KT1 have been excluded altogether, regardless of property type.

We get a weekly landfill collection and a fortnightly recycling collection. It is on the same day, and seems reasonably reliable, but only the green box is collected so cardboard and food waste are not.

[Mrs Bear]

Heard today from a colleague that her neighbour's house (one of the 3 bed terraces in the Tudor Drive area, close to 3 very good primaries) has tentatively sold for £305K. Or at least, the offer's been accepted.

It's a probate sale - kids of the old boy had previously refused to budge from £340k-ish, but decided recently to get shot since it was all too much hassle. He died at Christmas 07, I think, so it had been up for sale for a good while.

The house (which needs modernising) was originally priced at £395K and other similar were selling at the peak for £425K. A few similar are still on the market at £339K+ - this is a recent new low by quite a margin.

Edited March 4, 2009 by Mrs Bear

[worried1]

Heard today from a colleague that her neighbour's house (one of the 3 bed terraces in the Tudor Drive area, close to 3 very good primaries) has tentatively sold for £305K. Or at least, the offer's been accepted.

It's a probate sale - kids of the old boy had previously refused to budge from £340k-ish, but decided recently to get shot since it was all too much hassle. He died at Christmas 07, I think, so it had been up for sale for a good while.

The house (which needs modernising) was originally priced at £395K and other similar were selling at the peak for £425K. A few similar are still on the market at £339K+ - this is a recent new low by quite a margin.

Interesting. That is a 30% reduction from peak. Do you know if the place was in bad condition?

[Mrs Bear]

Interesting. That is a 30% reduction from peak. Do you know if the place was in bad condition?

Liveable, I gather, but dated k&b etc., and garden somewhat overgrown. Nothing you couldn't do bit by bit.

On another tack, the house next door to me has been rented out for over 20 years - current tenants (young family) have been there for around 2 yrs. They moved out at the weekend - had taken a house a few doors away, bigger and with better parking, for a cheaper rent. Former LL would apparently not negotiate.

Sign of the times...

[Bosh]

IF YOU USE THE ROYAL PARKS THEN THIS AFFECTS YOU.....

Hi All - Do you know there are plans afoot to charge to park in the Royal

Parks. The proposed plan is £1 p/h in Richmond and 50p p/h in Bushy, as

well as limiting the amount of time you can stay there. Some of us think

that is awful. Imagine have to pay to walk your dog, play with the kids,

have a picnic or just take a stroll. Imagine having to time your activities

incase you come back to find one of those awful yellow stickers costing you

a fortune stuck to your windscreen. At a time when we are all struggling

financially and we are all being encouraged to get out and about and keep

fit and healthy, here we are yet again going to be charged for the

privalege.

If you feel the same then please find the time to follow the two links below

which will take you to the two E petitions we have started, please sign up

to both. You will receive an email from Downing Street and you will need to

confirm your signature.

Please forward this to everyone you can think of who visits the parks.

Here's the link for Bushy.

http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/Deerparkparking

And here's the Richmond one.

http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/RicmondPark/

You can also visit the Royal Parks website and have your say direct to them.

The more people who say NO the less likely it is that they'll be able to

push this through.

Cheers

Bosh

[quine]

IF YOU USE THE ROYAL PARKS THEN THIS AFFECTS YOU.....

Hi All - Do you know there are plans afoot to charge to park in the Royal

Parks. The proposed plan is £1 p/h in Richmond and 50p p/h in Bushy, as

well as limiting the amount of time you can stay there. Some of us think

that is awful. Imagine have to pay to walk your dog, play with the kids,

have a picnic or just take a stroll. Imagine having to time your activities

incase you come back to find one of those awful yellow stickers costing you

a fortune stuck to your windscreen. At a time when we are all struggling

financially and we are all being encouraged to get out and about and keep

fit and healthy, here we are yet again going to be charged for the

privalege.

If you feel the same then please find the time to follow the two links below

which will take you to the two E petitions we have started, please sign up

to both. You will receive an email from Downing Street and you will need to

confirm your signature.

Please forward this to everyone you can think of who visits the parks.

Here's the link for Bushy.

http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/Deerparkparking

And here's the Richmond one.

http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/RicmondPark/

You can also visit the Royal Parks website and have your say direct to them.

The more people who say NO the less likely it is that they'll be able to

push this through.

Cheers

Bosh

I know I'll get shot down but personally I'd love to see cars banned from these two beautiful parks altogether. Seems like there is nowhere safe for pedestrians/cyclists and people that want to get away from bloody vehicles these days!

[worried1]

I know I'll get shot down but personally I'd love to see cars banned from these two beautiful parks altogether. Seems like there is nowhere safe for pedestrians/cyclists and people that want to get away from bloody vehicles these days!

I agree, but it will never happen. Richmond Park especially provides several key routes through this part of the SW London suburbs, and would cause traffic carnage if it were to be closed.

I think that the parking charges need to be thought through carefully. There does need to be some sort of deterrent against the type of people who drive half a mile to get to the park, but this has to be balanced against penalising those who do need to drive either because of longer distances or disability etc.

One of my major problems with the Kingston area is that people drive too much. Ok, it is not like central London, but everything is reasonably accessible by foot in a suburban area like this. I know several people who live near me and routinely drive to Surbiton station to park every day and Kingston town centre on the weekends. Both of these are well under a mile from where they live, but they are prepared to go to the hassle and cost of driving and parking. This must run into £1000's a year.

One of the reasons that I live in this area is that I don't have to rely on the car to get everywhere, but some people think differently.

[Bosh]

I know I'll get shot down but personally I'd love to see cars banned from these two beautiful parks altogether. Seems like there is nowhere safe for pedestrians/cyclists and people that want to get away from bloody vehicles these days!

No Flaming from me. It`s all about opinion

The problem you refer to is the through traffic. I agree it would be ideal if the only reason a vehicle was in the park was to use the designated car parks.

I live too far away to walk or even cycle and use Bushy park on a regular basis with my children.

If you banned even parking then this would only blight the lives of those lucky few, maybe you?, who live within walking distance. The surrounding roads would be clogged and people would moan even more.

I know that resident parking restrictions are evident surrounding both Bushy and Richmond RP`s

The Royal parks should be available to all people. All commercial vehicles are banned anyway. Bushy Park is apart from Diana pond just one straight road and there are acres and acres of safe cycling, walking areas available.

The point of these charges is nothing to do with traffic but another reason to tax the people. If they want less traffic in the park then close the gates between 8 and 10 am and 4 and 7pm to reduce rush hour Q-ing traffic.

Local residents in the posher areas of Hampton Court, Richmond, Teddington, Hampton Wick etc will soon kick up a stink if they could not get to and from the properties through gridlock.

No easy anwsers I`m afraid.

Bosh

[kittingerjump]

No Flaming from me. It`s all about opinion

....No easy anwsers I`m afraid.

Bosh

Actually you are correct as my immediate reaction is with quine. I don't really have an answer but I do think that it's a shame to have a stroll through richmond being ruined by the heavy sound of traffic, or smell of exhust. But, it's having people able to access places like this that keeps it going.

Parking generally in Kingston is a rip off and you get fleeced with the parking permit. I certainly don't want my mates to have to pay just to park up and see me on a saturday, so I pay for their permit but these things are all taxes and don't improve roads etc...a big con and a rip-off. In fact, by introducing a fee in the parks they are making it exclusive...

[Bosh]

Actually you are correct as my immediate reaction is with quine. I don't really have an answer but I do think that it's a shame to have a stroll through richmond being ruined by the heavy sound of traffic, or smell of exhust. But, it's having people able to access places like this that keeps it going.

Parking generally in Kingston is a rip off and you get fleeced with the parking permit. I certainly don't want my mates to have to pay just to park up and see me on a saturday, so I pay for their permit but these things are all taxes and don't improve roads etc...a big con and a rip-off. In fact, by introducing a fee in the parks they are making it exclusive...

Shame really, I also think what the car parks would look like with all the Pay and display signs, machines, painted car parking spaces and over enthusiastic parking attendants pouncing on any car whose owner spent 2 minutes longer walking Rex.

I am guilty of also using Bushy Park to get to and from work Actuallty it is choice. I can either go through Surbiton and then the famous Kingston one way system or over Hampton court bridge and through the park as I work in Teddington.

I choose the least stressful route and the most picturesque.

I though would accept a ban from using the park as a so called rat run if they agreed not to charge for parking. I have some fantastic memories of Bushy park with my wife and kids.

Unfortunately, the parks will get busier with the Recession/Depression as people will see a day at the park as a cheap, enjoyable day out in the summer.

[Mrs Bear]

I know I'll get shot down but personally I'd love to see cars banned from these two beautiful parks altogether. Seems like there is nowhere safe for pedestrians/cyclists and people that want to get away from bloody vehicles these days!

We live about 2 mins' walk from a pedestrian gate to Richmond Park. We walk and cycle there, one or other of these almost daily in summer. However, we also drive through the park when en route to Richmond, Kew or the M4 or M1. I would hate to lose this facility - driving through the park lifts the spirits and God knows we all need a bit of spirit-lifting these days.

Banning cars would also ban a large category of users. I often take my mother (90, and with Alzheimer's) for a drive round R Park and maybe to Pembroke Lodge for a cup of tea, or for an ice cream at the Isabella car park in the summer. She has no disabled badge but is very frail and I couldn't possibly take her without the car. Because of her condition there aren't many things she's able to enjoy any more, but she does enjoy a drive around the park. There are many, many more people (including friends of ours who love the park and use it a lot) who might not be disabled as such but couldn't possibly access the park to any extent on foot.

Also, I just don't understand this bit about not being able to get away from cars. Once you're in the park and have crossed the perimeter road, you only have to walk for a very few minutes to be right out of eye- and earshot of any of them. Cars on the p. road have never once bothered us in over 20 years.

IMO by far the worst hazard in the park is the sizeable %age of selfish, lycra-clad cyclists who power down the shared cycle-pedestrian paths at top speed, expecting everybody including the elderly, small children on tricycles and deaf old dogs to get out of their way instantly, at the trill of a bell, and make absolutely no allowances. We cycle in the park but these people are an absolute menace. If they are trying to break their own speed records I don't see why on earth they can't use the roads. It is only a matter of time before one of these kills a small child - at least one dog has already been killed.

I hate them!

Edited March 14, 2009 by Mrs Bear

[rentedroof]

IMO by far the worst hazard in the park is the sizeable %age of selfish, lycra-clad cyclists who power down the shared cycle-pedestrian paths at top speed, expecting everybody including the elderly, small children on tricycles and deaf old dogs to get out of their way instantly, at the trill of a bell, and make absolutely no allowances. We cycle in the park but these people are an absolute menace. If they are trying to break their own speed records I don't see why on earth they can't use the roads. It is only a matter of time before one of these kills a small child - at least one dog has already been killed.

I hate them!

I am on of those (non lycra clad in my case) menaces Mrs Bear but i feel your pain. That track around the park is the only unpaved path us bikies are allowed on by the Royal Parks lot, pedestrians have the run of all of the rest of the park! I take your point about using the road but it's just so damn dull.

I tend to stay off the track at busy times as it's so popular and crowded and I take no pleasure in frightening folks out for a stroll - but I certainly do make allowances - I have the scars to prove it, I also agree it's only a matter of time there's a nasty prang - but it won't be my fault! I've been thinking of starting a campaign for a parallel bike only track, at the end of the day Richmond Park is simply a victim of it's own success.

peace!