Iran

[Rod Polisher]

Two interesting stories about Iran...

- Iran mulls "interest-free" banking (wish our government would do the same here)

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/499423-iran...q-banking?ln=en

- Nippon Oil to buy Iran oil in yen

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/6981375.stm

I wonder how long before American bombs start dropping on Iranian heads? A not too widely publicized fact about Iraq was Saddam's insistence on being paid in Euro's rather than US Dollars.

The other story that caught my eye today was about the city of Nagoya having the last laugh, with their belief that "Debt is Evil". I for one would go along with that.

[mobeyone]

I thought the Iranians had already started to trade in Euros? and yes, this fact was well hidden by the press during the build up to the Iraq war and even to date, I don't think we have seen anything in the British media regarding trade in Euros...

[mobeyone]

Maybe not in the left wing press but it was advertised in the Torygraph.

Can't see America having a pop perhaps Israel then yeap, why not, they've got the most to lose if Iran get the bomb IMHO and its not like they have not been provoked in recent times is it.

Israel are itching to start something... I dont think the Bush administration have the ability to get involved in another war but the next president.. who knows.. especially if rudy gets in..

[Solvent Celt]

Usury is against Islamic teaching (just as it is against Christain teaching).

Unfortunately the muslims tend to levy a "fee" as opposed to "interest" but it's the same amount of money that gets debited from your account AFAIK. It's just a semantic gymnastic flip as far as I can make out. If it wasn't and the loans were genuinely interest free wouldn't everybody be trying to borrow from an islamic bank?

The most high profile "islamic bank" operating in this country was BCCI and we all know how that worked out.

[Justice]

Israel are itching to start something... I dont think the Bush administration have the ability to get involved in another war but the next president.. who knows.. especially if rudy gets in..

You mean you can get worse than GW-Bush having killed 3,000 of his own people on 9/11 that was used to kick all this off.

Russia is not going to sit on it's hands when it knows america would be backing Israel and will give all the arab nations state of the art missiles that are ten years ahead of anything the americans have.

[Solvent Celt]

You mean you can get worse than GW-Bush having killed 3,000 of his own people on 9/11 that was used to kick all this off.

Russia is not going to sit on it's hands when it knows america would be backing Israel and will give all the arab nations state of the art missiles that are ten years ahead of anything the americans have.

Justice get it into your head Bush didn't do 9/11! Disparate "anomalies" do not a conspiracy make!

Russia doesn't have missiles 10 years ahead of the Americans. Russia only invested in major SAM systems because it knew it's own aircraft weren't up to taking on NATO. Gulf War 1 horrified the Russians because of the ease with which the USAF took apart the Iraq air defences and Army.

Israels wars with the Arabs have shown how even their second line western planes were more than a match for the best anti aircraft systems the Warsaw pact could provide.

Since the Korean War the US has been pulling away from the former communists in air systems. Of course that's not to say they are invincible.

[Rod Polisher]

"The most high profile "islamic bank" operating in this country was BCCI and we all know how that worked out."

BCCI - Bank of Crooks and Conmen International

I think the jist of the whole Iran interest free business is that Ahmadinejad has said they shouldn't charge interest but charge a fee for services. However, this fee cannot just be the same as what the interest was. The banks are gonna have to get used to less profit. If I'm not mistaken, most if not all of the banks in Iran are state-owned. That would make things easier to implement.

I was aware that usury is against Christian teachings too. I don't know why more (any) Christians don't protest the fact. I think the only time Jesus used violence (of sorts) in the Bible was to throw out the moneychangers / moneylenders / pharisees out of the temple for desecrating it.

I don't think our current crop of Islamic banks are doing too well neither.

Islamic Bank of Britain - Has not turned in a profit since inception about 3 years ago. Always made a loss. Although to be fair, they have been rolling out a branch network, setting up internet banking systems and the like, so I guess those sorts of things would eat up into capital. Their IPO price was 25 or 30 pence and shot up as high as 90 pence on rumours of a takeover from Qatar. They are languishing at about 9 pence.

European Islamic Investment Bank - A strange one this. They have been profitable from day 1 and their interims are out soon. However, the share price has just drifted down. The only thing I can think of is the fact they haven't paid a dividend on the profit. It was all reinvested back into the business. I think their book value is something like 11 pence and they are trading at about 8 pence. Very strange.

I am tempted to have a punt. I think even I can afford to lose 8 pence. Any opinions?

[Rod Polisher]

Russia doesn't have missiles 10 years ahead of the Americans.

Er...I wouldn't count on that.

Check out...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BrahMos

The high speed of the BrahMos enables it to inflict more damage than slower cruise missiles such as the Tomahawk. Being twice as heavy and almost four times faster than the Tomahawk, the Brahmos has almost 16 times the kinetic energy of a Tomahawk missiles, which ensures far more lethal hits than a subsonic missile.

[RichB]

Justice get it into your head Bush didn't do 9/11! Disparate "anomalies" do not a conspiracy make!

Quite right. It wasn't the most powerful clique in the western world, with a multiplicity of secret agencies at their beck and call with a hundred years of black ops experience in destabilising and sabotaging regimes all over the world and an effectively unlimited budget. It was a dozen guys who lived in a cave in afganistan.

[Solvent Celt]

Quite right. It wasn't the most powerful clique in the western world, with a multiplicity of secret agencies at their beck and call with a hundred years of black ops experience in destabilising and sabotaging regimes all over the world and an effectively unlimited budget. It was a dozen guys who lived in a cave in afganistan.

So by that train of logic all the street shootings in Britain must be being perpetrated by the SAS and not street hoodlums?

[Rod Polisher]

Justice get it into your head Bush didn't do 9/11! Disparate "anomalies" do not a conspiracy make!

Check this out...

http://www.opednews.com/articles/genera_al...__top_gun__.htm

Too many unanswered questions about 9/11...

- The collapse of WTC 7, no plane hit, hardly any damage or fire before it collapsed

- The burning temperature of aircraft fuel is less than half what is required to make steel melt

- The Empire State Building was built in 1931. In 1945 a B25 bomber crashed into the Emprire State Building. Fire burned for 40 mins. It's still standing last time I looked.

- The Twin Towers were built in 1970 (must be a Barratt Homes newbuild compared to the Empire State) and designed to withstand a Boeing 707 plane crash (almost identical in size / weight to 767)

- Fires burned for 56 and 102 minutes before towers collapsed

- Fires in other skyscrapers have never caused a collapse (Windsor Tower in Madrid burned for 24 hours - http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/news_web/video...71_nb_16x9.ram)

- Some of the alleged 9/11 hijackers alive and well in Saudi and other countries (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/1559151.stm) (http://guardian.150m.com/september-eleven/hijackers-alive.htm)

- Mobile phone calls from Flight 93 (Why would AA test a mobile phone system if they already work on planes - http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/cell_air.html)

- Loads of architects, engineers, physicists, pilots, professors, PhD's are all questioning the official version and "facts"

- Refusal to release the video of the "plane" crashing into the Pentagon

- Loads of Israeli spys deported after 9/11, all the evidence linking them to 9/11 has been made "classified". To become classified, the evidence has to have existed in the first place!

- Huge increase in Put Options on United and American Airlines (A bit like the Israeli Army Chief selling all his share before invading Lebanon last year!)

- Ad infinitum

Watch "Loose Change" and "Zeitgeist The Movie" on Google Video

http://www.ae911truth.net/ppt/index.php

If you believe the US government that has a long history of faking incidents (Gulf of Tonkin, Operation Ajax in Iran etc) you are a sheeple!

[Solvent Celt]

Er...I wouldn't count on that.

Check out...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BrahMos

The high speed of the BrahMos enables it to inflict more damage than slower cruise missiles such as the Tomahawk. Being twice as heavy and almost four times faster than the Tomahawk, the Brahmos has almost 16 times the kinetic energy of a Tomahawk missiles, which ensures far more lethal hits than a subsonic missile.

Hmmn I'm not convinced by this. I'm not sure you're comparing like with like here.

It's like saying an assault rifle with the longest barrel is better because you have more reach with it's bayonet.

A cruise missile isn't relying on speed to be effective - the clue is in the name. Nor is it a dedicated antiship missile, nor does it rely on kinetic energy to destroy its target. It's also twice as heavy which means you can only carry half as many reloads.

Probably the fairest comparison would be something like the Harpoon or Exocet - both battle proven systems.

Also both the above missiles are currently in service in their air launched configuration which the Brahmos isn't AFAIK.

The Russians also have the switch blade currently in service and the Chinese also have a very capable ASM which it is believed has been supplied to Iran.

Of course looking at individual weapons systems in isolation gives you no indication of how armed forces will perform.

The French tanks of WW2 were substantailly better than their German counterparts . They didn't have the doctrine to use them effectively.

[RichB]

So by that train of logic all the street shootings in Britain must be being perpetrated by the SAS and not street hoodlums?

what ? Don't you actually read?

[Solvent Celt]

Check this out...

http://www.opednews.com/articles/genera_al...__top_gun__.htm

Too many unanswered questions about 9/11...

- The collapse of WTC 7, no plane hit, hardly any damage or fire before it collapsed

- The burning temperature of aircraft fuel is less than half what is required to make steel melt

- The Empire State Building was built in 1931. In 1945 a B25 bomber crashed into the Emprire State Building. Fire burned for 40 mins. It's still standing last time I looked.

- The Twin Towers were built in 1970 (must be a Barratt Homes newbuild compared to the Empire State) and designed to withstand a Boeing 707 plane crash (almost identical in size / weight to 767)

- Fires burned for 56 and 102 minutes before towers collapsed

- Fires in other skyscrapers have never caused a collapse (Windsor Tower in Madrid burned for 24 hours - http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/news_web/video...71_nb_16x9.ram)

- Some of the alleged 9/11 hijackers alive and well in Saudi and other countries (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/1559151.stm) (http://guardian.150m.com/september-eleven/hijackers-alive.htm)

- Mobile phone calls from Flight 93 (Why would AA test a mobile phone system if they already work on planes - http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/cell_air.html)

- Loads of architects, engineers, physicists, pilots, professors, PhD's are all questioning the official version and "facts"

- Refusal to release the video of the "plane" crashing into the Pentagon

- Loads of Israeli spys deported after 9/11, all the evidence linking them to 9/11 has been made "classified". To become classified, the evidence has to have existed in the first place!

- Huge increase in Put Options on United and American Airlines (A bit like the Israeli Army Chief selling all his share before invading Lebanon last year!)

- Ad infinitum

Watch "Loose Change" and "Zeitgeist The Movie" on Google Video

http://www.ae911truth.net/ppt/index.php

If you believe the US government that has a long history of faking incidents (Gulf of Tonkin, Operation Ajax in Iran etc) you are a sheeple!

Hiya Rodpolisher. I've sparred with Justice over this a few times and I've dealt with many of the points raised. It's a bit like playing whack-a-mole. You deal with one apparent anomaly and another raises it's ugly head. Deal with that and the conspiracy theorists move on to another. They never come around to acknowledge that you've destroyed their arguments because they are based on faith not reason.

That said I'll try to address some of the points you raise...

The collapse of WTC 7, no plane hit, hardly any damage or fire before it collapsed

No plane hit... just huge chunks of the building that was hit by the planes...yep hardly any damage there!

Now we know that the twin towers collapsed and rained debris over a significant area. Is it not the most credible explanation that that might... just might be something to do with the collapse of WTC7?

The burning temperature of aircraft fuel is less than half what is required to make steel melt

Obfuscation - who claims that the steel melted?

The Empire State Building was built in 1931. In 1945 a B25 bomber crashed into the Empire State Building. Fire burned for 40 mins. It's still standing last time I looked

Irrelevant. Different building - different plane - different speed of impact - different building construction.

The size of a B-25 bomber is much smaller than a Boeing 767, with smaller wingspan and smaller fuel capacity. A B-25 bomber has a wingspan of 67 feet, compared with 156 feet for a Boeing 767. The fuel capacity of the B-25 bomber was 1,000 gallons, as compared with 24,000 gallons for a Boeing 767. As well, the speed at which a B-25 bomber traveled was far less than the ~500 mph than the speed that the two Boeing 767's were traveling when they hit the World Trade Center.

The Twin Towers were built in 1970 (must be a Barratt Homes newbuild compared to the Empire State) and designed to withstand a Boeing 707 plane crash (almost identical in size / weight to 767)

The design envisaged a 707, lost in the fog and traveling at a relatively slow speed of 180 miles per hour accidental hitting the tower.

What happened is that the larger 767 laden with fuel ploughed in to the buildings at far greater speeds than the designs had envisaged. They hit between 470-590 miles per hour. Now as we all know from basic physics energy=mass*velocity. The towers were NOT designed to withstand this size of impact.

Fires burned for 56 and 102 minutes before towers collapsed

So what? Whats the significance?

Fires in other skyscrapers have never caused a collapse (Windsor Tower in Madrid burned for 24 hours - http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/news_web/video...71_nb_16x9.ram)

So what? had they been hit by large aircraft traveling at high speed? Had the fireproofing on the steel been destroyed. Are they the same design of building? Your're setting up a "straw man" arguement here. Nobody is claiming the WTC's collapsed solely because of fire.

Some of the alleged 9/11 hijackers alive and well in Saudi and other countries (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/1559151.stm) (http://guardian.150m.com/september-eleven/hijackers-alive.htm)

Pick one of the men you claim to still be alive and we'll have a look. Believe me I've done this exercise with all the terrorists and it's always the same. A guy with a very similar name is alive and well but it isn't the guy the FBI have identified. In one case CNN actually ran an incorrect picture in error. Which also caused confusion.

Mobile phone calls from Flight 93 (Why would AA test a mobile phone system if they already work on planes - http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/cell_air.html)

Possibly because they want to provide a high quality reliable service? There's no reason ordinary mobiles shouldn't work on a plane flying near mobile masts at low altitude. I've made mobile calls from mountain tops. Have we any reason to disbelieve the testimony of those family members who spoke to people on board flight 93. Are we to dismiss them all as liars?

Loads of architects, engineers, physicists, pilots, professors, PhD's are all questioning the official version and "facts"

Good! questioning the facts is normal and healthy

- Refusal to release the video of the "plane" crashing into the Pentagon

They have released a film showing the plane hitting. The quality isn't great but analysis I've seen seems to show a plane hitting the Pentagon. Then theirs oodles of eye witness testimony and the remains of a plane. Seems pretty cut and dried to me.

- Loads of Israeli spys deported after 9/11, all the evidence linking them to 9/11 has been made "classified". To become classified, the evidence has to have existed in the first place!

Ah so the Jooos did it Actually I have some time for the idea that Israeli intel might have got wind of something in advance - nothing specific but something in offing. I'm sure they get this kind of unactionable intel all the time. How do you know the explusions were related to 9/11 if the reasons for the expulsions is classified???

Huge increase in Put Options on United and American Airlines (A bit like the Israeli Army Chief selling all his share before invading Lebanon last year!)

So what? A single U.S.-based institutional investor with no conceivable ties to al Qaeda purchased 95% of the UAL puts on September 6 as part of a trading strategy that also included buying 115,000 shares of American on September 10, the Commission said. Similarly, the Commission said, much of the seemingly suspicious trading in American on September 10 was traced to a specific U.S.-based options trading newsletter, faxed to its subscribers on Sunday, September 9, that recommended these trades. So it would seem that whilst they gained by the puts they would have lost with the share purchase. Seems like a hedging your bets to me.

Even though the levels of puts were unusual the amount of money made was relatively small.

Ad infinitum

Watch "Loose Change" and "Zeitgeist The Movie" on Google Video

I seriously hope you don't base you're opinions on these videos!

[Solvent Celt]

what ? Don't you actually read?

Are you suggesting young Rhys Jones was killed by Sabre Squadron out on a shooting spree from Hereford?

[Solvent Celt]

Stop it. You are killing me!

I'm on a roll!!!

[Rod Polisher]

Hiya Rodpolisher. I've sparred with Justice over this a few times and I've dealt with many of the points raised. It's a bit like playing whack-a-mole. You deal with one apparent anomaly and another raises it's ugly head. Deal with that and the conspiracy theorists move on to another. They never come around to acknowledge that you've destroyed their arguments because they are based on faith not reason.

I haven't seen your threads with Justice about this but I guess the best thing is to agree to disagree.

Personally, if the US government were open and honest about the whole affair, there wouldn't be so many intelligent people out there doubting them.

Their hush-up of the USS Liberty affair was disgraceful. They have a track record of duplicity, dishonesty and false flag operations as long as yer arm.

Personally, the only hope I see for the US is if Ron Paul gets elected. The rest of the Democans and Republicrats candidates are two cheeks of the same smelly backside. They are all big government, big taxes, war-mongering waste of space.

Mind you, can anyone here tell the difference between Labour and Tories anymore?

[RichB]

Are you suggesting young Rhys Jones was killed by Sabre Squadron out on a shooting spree from Hereford?

Not at all. Are you suggesting I suggested the US government was behind the WTC attack?

[RichB]

I don't get it - I say it wasn't a conspiracy by the government but a conspiracy by a bunch of middleeastern nutters and I get this ?

[RichB]

[Solvent Celt]

I completely and unreservedly apologise. It appears as bugger lugs mis read what you were driving at. I took your post to be dripping with sarcasm.

A thousand apologies and a dozen camels for I have wronged you.

Me too! I take it all back! To assume makes an ass of u and me. Mostly me in this case.

[Solvent Celt]

I haven't seen your threads with Justice about this but I guess the best thing is to agree to disagree.

Personally, if the US government were open and honest about the whole affair, there wouldn't be so many intelligent people out there doubting them.

Their hush-up of the USS Liberty affair was disgraceful. They have a track record of duplicity, dishonesty and false flag operations as long as yer arm.

Personally, the only hope I see for the US is if Ron Paul gets elected. The rest of the Democans and Republicrats candidates are two cheeks of the same smelly backside. They are all big government, big taxes, war-mongering waste of space.

Mind you, can anyone here tell the difference between Labour and Tories anymore?

I agree with most of that. 9/11 can be explained. Israels delibrate strike on USS liberty could not be an accident AFAIK.

I thought they refused false flag in Cuba.

I agree Ron Paul is the man the USA desperately needs!