Those Who Can Do Those Who Cant Teach

[fiddlethefigures]

Having known a few secondary education teachers over the years i have come to the conclusion they are the most deluded set of individuals you will ever come across.

They are so far detatched from reality with their parisitical pay packets most of them who i know still think that property only ever goes up and are actively buying houses as if this is the case.

Anyone else noticed this or have I just been unlucky knowing these "i work hard - do nothing" teachers?

[Guest AuntJess]

Having known a few secondary education teachers over the years i have come to the conclusion they are the most deluded set of individuals you will ever come across.

They are so far detatched from reality with their parisitical pay packets most of them who i know still think that property only ever goes up and are actively buying houses as if this is the case.

Anyone else noticed this or have I just been unlucky knowing these "i work hard - do nothing" teachers?

There are good teachers around, but maybe they got burned off by twenty years of educational meddling. The good teachers failed to give 110% that they were asked to do, so left, whilst the dossers who rarely gave more than 30% managed to hang on. Thsat kjs one pssibilty. The chance that 100% of teachers are crap is a bit of a stretch.

[laurejon]

Teaching is very similar to the Health Industry.

As is the case the best Doctors and Surgeons go to work in private practice, the same is the case with Teaching.

And who can blame them, who in their right mind is going to spend each and every day taking their life in their hands teaching in a comprehensive school?

[billy-g]

Those who can, do, those who can't, teach. Those who can't teach, teach P.E.

As said to me by a friends wife who is a P.E. teacher.

Or then their is my niece; spent most of Uni on her back, had to repeat a year, finally came out with a third.

Now then, guess what she's spent the last year training to become.......

[fiddlethefigures]

I acknowledge that not all teachers are crap however why pay for crap teachers when you can give every kid a laptop and let them use the internet.

I saw this episode of click on bbc news 24 this week about experimental microsoft schools in the usa which uses technology to educate.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/clic...ine/6917156.stm

[crystal ball]

I acknowledge that not all teachers are crap however why pay for crap teachers when you can give every kid a laptop and let them use the internet.

I saw this episode of click on bbc news 24 this week about experimental microsoft schools in the usa which uses technology to educate.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/clic...ine/6917156.stm

I have often wondered why pay thousands of teachers on good salaries to deliver the same lesson when you can distribute an interactive programme/video which can be used on a laptop.

Laptops cost 400 pounds and the programmes say £20 per lesson.

kid taking 5 exams software/hardware investment £500

Better than what any teacher could deliver at secondary education level with its archaic teaching practices and alot cheaper for the beleaguered tax payer who has to foot the bill.

[Guest AuntJess]

I acknowledge that not all teachers are crap however why pay for crap teachers when you can give every kid a laptop and let them use the internet.

I saw this episode of click on bbc news 24 this week about experimental microsoft schools in the usa which uses technology to educate.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/clic...ine/6917156.stm

I feel the same about many in medicine. I only ever met one doctor who could diagnose - my old GP - and he died 20 years ago, bless him. All the rest I tell THEM what I've got and I haven't struck out yet. They are often clueless. On two occasions when I differered with consultants, *I* was right. If I'd listened to either of them, one of my children would have been in a wheelchair, the other in the morgue"

It is scary when people who hold your life in their hands are not as competent as they might be.

[gilf]

Or then their is my niece; spent most of Uni on her back, had to repeat a year, finally came out with a third.

Now then, guess what she's spent the last year training to become.......

I know a few teachers, without exception they are all teachers because they failed to get the degree need for their chosen occupation and then decided that teaching was the easy option.

The other problem I find with career teachers is their total lack of real world experience. At school I never realised this was an issue but then I went back in to education having been in full time employment for some years it was obvious. We often challenged our Maths teacher, she claimed everything we learnt was applicable and used in the real world of work when it wasn't, don't get me wrong I had no problem with doing the work but the idea that anything more than 10% of the stuff we did would ever be useful was plain rubbish. The reason it was significant was that the course was a vocational one therefore designed explictly to give you work skills.

[gilf]

I feel the same about many in medicine. I only ever met one doctor who could diagnose - my old GP - and he died 20 years ago, bless him. All the rest I tell THEM what I've got and I haven't struck out yet. They are often clueless. On two occasions when I differered with consultants, *I* was right. If I'd listened to either of them, one of my children would have been in a wheelchair, the other in the morgue"

It is scary when people who hold your life in their hands are not as competent as they might be.

I'd agree, I suffered with Asthma for years, moved so therefore got a new GP within a month he had totally changed my life. Nothing more than good management of the problem, I now don't take any medication for Asthma, had I been under the other doctor I have little doubt I would still be puffing away.

[wickywackywoo]

I feel the same about many in medicine. I only ever met one doctor who could diagnose - my old GP - and he died 20 years ago, bless him. All the rest I tell THEM what I've got and I haven't struck out yet. They are often clueless. On two occasions when I differered with consultants, *I* was right. If I'd listened to either of them, one of my children would have been in a wheelchair, the other in the morgue"

It is scary when people who hold your life in their hands are not as competent as they might be.

I've become completely disillusioned with GPs. Most of them are useless f*ckwits who simply sit there fobbing off people with 'it's a virus', 'you've pulled a muscle'. This is GP code speak for 'I haven't got a clue and I don't want to waste time/money finding out what's wrong with you'.

I've noticed a very definite shift over the last ten years where they wait until a problem is so severe that they have no choice but to treat it. Until then they fob you off with useless pills and nonsense hoping you'll go away.

The vast majority of GPs do not deserve their ridiculously large pay packets.

[oracle]

Most of the teachers/nurses/doctors I know are very well meaning folk,and really only want a kind of utopian society.

Problem is,they are all,bar none,HOPELESSLY NAIVE.They don't figure that this utopia has to be PAID FOR,by providing tradeable goods and services to other people overseas......in order to have the money to PAY THEM.

...and of course they all moan about how crap their pay is.

[Guest AuntJess]

I've become completely disillusioned with GPs. Most of them are useless f*ckwits who simply sit there fobbing off people with 'it's a virus', 'you've pulled a muscle'. This is GP code speak for 'I haven't got a clue and I don't want to waste time/money finding out what's wrong with you'.

I've noticed a very definite shift over the last ten years where they wait until a problem is so severe that they have no choice but to treat it. Until then they fob you off with useless pills and nonsense hoping you'll go away.

The vast majority of GPs do not deserve their ridiculously large pay packets.

I agree about GPs. I think the major problem is that students opt for medicine cos it is well paid and a status occupation. They don't go into it for the right reasons. One needs more than A grade sciences to do it. The best diagnostician I ever knew - reputedly the best in the North-West of England - was not an exceptional scholar, but he had insight into people and their conditions, gained by 13 years of surgery as a registrar, before he went into GP work.

I agree about teachers and medics. They need to see a bit of life before they do the job. I left school and did several jobs along with voluntary work before going to Uni. and studying, after my children were born.

The only rider I would add to my original post, is that not ALL consultants are useless, or my children's lives really would have been screwed up. I had misgivings about the original consultants and got a second opinion, thankfully, which nailed it. I think if ever you doubt a "specialist", never be afraid to seek alternative advice. A wise friend once told me to 'go with your gut... always' and I have never regretted heeding her words.

Soz about getting off the "teacher" topic.

[Guest absolutezero]

I'm one of those who actually chose to become a teacher but I am not the biggest fan of teachers.

Most of them haven't got a clue about how the world works and they do have some idealistic view of how the world actually is according to them. They also tend to be whingers.

That said, there are some brilliant people who have become teachers and are genuinely interested in teaching the kids something. Problem is, these days everything is so target oriented and exam results are the be all and end all.

The person who suggested using the computer programs and the internet instead of teachers fails to consider one major point: Kids don't actually want to be at school and if left unsupervised on a computer they'll be up to 'no good' within a few minutes.

The teacher is there to keep reasonable discipline and ensure they learn something. Machines tend not to be too good at explaining when the kids don't understand. Plus, good teachers will try to tailor things to the group and even individual kids. Not something a machine is very good at.

For those who think teaching is a nice, cushy job, remember this: Some schools are teetering on the brink of anarchy.

Spend a few days in a secondary school. That group of ten chavs you saw on the street corner tonight smoking and drinking? Imagine being shut in a room with them and some trigonometry. It's no walk in the park.

[CrashedOutAndBurned]

I come from something of a teaching family so naturally I was brought up to be a bit anti-teacher!

My Dad was always full of ales of some failing headteacher he knew who'd be off sick with stress for six months but somehow re-emerge as an educational advisor on silly money with the LEA, or teachers who just took vast amounts of stress-related time off even though they worked in pleasant-enough rural junior schools. Free holiday milkers, most of them - if you could take off sixth months from work on full pay then swan back in to warmth and cuddles you would, wouldn't you?

When I was at secondary shool in the 90s - a well thought of middle-class slanted comprehensive - some of the teachers were a complete joke. One psychics guy would just slap up notes from 1975 onto an overhead projector and have us copy them down for most of the lesson while he's walks out of the room and returns half an our later with a big mug of coffee. Another mad old bat of a teacher took issue with an essay I wrote because it was 'too good' inferring I'd cheated! Plenty of teachers were just nutters who would occasionally 'lose it' with some kid who'd been talking too much, ranting and screaming at them like schizos leaving us terrified.

Then you get the snob teachers who think they're some sort of social elite intellectual and make nasty snide comments about the 'little Kylies' and 'Waynes' in their class. Yeah, they're going to really inspire kids off the estate, aren't they?

Oh, and then you get the delusions of grandeur teachers who think they are paid peanuts and should be on Doctor or lawyer money, never mind the fact that if they hadn't ambled into a PGCE they'd probably be selling knickers in M&S or working as an office-monkey like most other common or garden graduates. They often assume that in the 'private sector' we get all sort of perks, while they get generous super-annuation even if they've spent the whole year being generally crap at their job.

[Guest absolutezero]

I come from something of a teaching family so naturally I was brought up to be a bit anti-teacher!

My Dad was always full of ales of some failing headteacher he knew who'd be off sick with stress for six months but somehow re-emerge as an educational advisor on silly money with the LEA, or teachers who just took vast amounts of stress-related time off even though they worked in pleasant-enough rural junior schools. Free holiday milkers, most of them - if you could take off sixth months from work on full pay then swan back in to warmth and cuddles you would, wouldn't you?

When I was at secondary shool in the 90s - a well thought of middle-class slanted comprehensive - some of the teachers were a complete joke. One psychics guy would just slap up notes from 1975 onto an overhead projector and have us copy them down for most of the lesson while he's walks out of the room and returns half an our later with a big mug of coffee. Another mad old bat of a teacher took issue with an essay I wrote because it was 'too good' inferring I'd cheated! Plenty of teachers were just nutters who would occasionally 'lose it' with some kid who'd been talking too much, ranting and screaming at them like schizos leaving us terrified.

Then you get the snob teachers who think they're some sort of social elite intellectual and make nasty snide comments about the 'little Kylies' and 'Waynes' in their class. Yeah, they're going to really inspire kids off the estate, aren't they?

Oh, and then you get the delusions of grandeur teachers who think they are paid peanuts and should be on Doctor or lawyer money, never mind the fact that if they hadn't ambled into a PGCE they'd probably be selling knickers in M&S or working as an office-monkey like most other common or garden graduates. They often assume that in the 'private sector' we get all sort of perks, while they get generous super-annuation even if they've spent the whole year being generally crap at their job.

Did you have the same physics teacher as me?

I'll admit, some teachers are terrible and it's easy to slag teachers off in general.

As far as pay goes I'll be absolutely honest. It's bloody good money.

But that good money comes at a price. The job does your head in. A friend of mine recently left teaching. She's had loads of different jobs ranging from arthritis research, admin, managerial jobs and she said teaching was the most draining job she's ever had. That's why she left.

The other price of the good money is the group of chavs i mentioned in an earlier post. Someone has to teach them. Anyone fancy it?

[CrashedOutAndBurned]

Yes, teaching a group of yobs is hard and it's true that teachers have been stripped of any ammo to deal with them. Also, they're not equipped to mop-up every social problem.

If you want to know what young 'chav kids' think just sit near a group of them on a bus in North London. In between the inane jabber about mobile phone ringtones and who's nobbing who's ex-boyfriend you can get some good sociological insights.

A while back some kids who looked about 15-16 were talking about some sort of careers day and said things like, 'My brother did this college course but he just works in B&Q for shit money, f**king boring', 'Yeah, it's no better off than being on the social', 'Yeah, my Mum's never worked and we did alright', 'You have to be an effing brain surgeon to get decent money', 'Yeah, or dealer, mate'.

Teachers are up against a whole load of perverse incentives and disincentives that kids face. Most jobs out there are less than a living wage and there's no social housing until you start playing the points game by pumping out kids or claiming to be sick. I'm sure if these kids were told they could hop on a Ryanair flight and have a working holiday for a couple of years making 5 times what they could in the UK' they'd be busy as Poles. If they thought they could get a decent council flat as a normal working person on 13-16k they wouldn't try and shirk and make themselves at least employable for low-level jobs that at require basic literacy and numeracy. If they had parents pushing them to do well at school not just acting as living proof that you can succeed as a couch potato they'd maybe set their sights much higher.

Teachers can't untangle all that.

[oracle]

Yes, teaching a group of yobs is hard and it's true that teachers have been stripped of any ammo to deal with them. Also, they're not equipped to mop-up every social problem.

If you want to know what young 'chav kids' think just sit near a group of them on a bus in North London. In between the inane jabber about mobile phone ringtones and who's nobbing who's ex-boyfriend you can get some good sociological insights.

A while back some kids who looked about 15-16 were talking about some sort of careers day and said things like, 'My brother did this college course but he just works in B&Q for shit money, f**king boring', 'Yeah, it's no better off than being on the social', 'Yeah, my Mum's never worked and we did alright', 'You have to be an effing brain surgeon to get decent money', 'Yeah, or dealer, mate'.

Teachers are up against a whole load of perverse incentives and disincentives that kids face. Most jobs out there are less than a living wage and there's no social housing until you start playing the points game by pumping out kids or claiming to be sick. I'm sure if these kids were told they could hop on a Ryanair flight and have a working holiday for a couple of years making 5 times what they could in the UK' they'd be busy as Poles. If they thought they could get a decent council flat as a normal working person on 13-16k they wouldn't try and shirk and make themselves at least employable for low-level jobs that at require basic literacy and numeracy. If they had parents pushing them to do well at school not just acting as living proof that you can succeed as a couch potato they'd maybe set their sights much higher.

Teachers can't untangle all that.

FWIW I agree,teachers don't have the authority to back it up anymore.

the problem society has is systemic,if the bad stuff ain't trained out at an early age,then it manifests in the wider world.They made a big mistake letting kids get away with whatever they liked in the 70's and 80's....we now have the offspring of these,who are absolutely feral...for want of a better word.

...but let's not place the blame on the public,let's place it where it truly belongs....with our illustrious leaders/corporations/politicians.

A lot of the bad stuff we have now is a symptom of the "I want it NOW,at any price" culture we have....in conjunction with the ruthless business acumen which hires and fires at will,without regard to the circumstances of the staff....and I'm capitalist.

..it needs to be dealt with more like a family.Would YOU allow your kids to steal someone elses trainers/phone etc....and would YOU boot them out of the house because you wanted to go to the pub??....thought not.

[Guest absolutezero]

FWIW I agree,teachers don't have the authority to back it up anymore.

the problem society has is systemic,if the bad stuff ain't trained out at an early age,then it manifests in the wider world.They made a big mistake letting kids get away with whatever they liked in the 70's and 80's....we now have the offspring of these,who are absolutely feral...for want of a better word.

...but let's not place the blame on the public,let's place it where it truly belongs....with our illustrious leaders/corporations/politicians.

A lot of the bad stuff we have now is a symptom of the "I want it NOW,at any price" culture we have....in conjunction with the ruthless business acumen which hires and fires at will,without regard to the circumstances of the staff....and I'm capitalist.

..it needs to be dealt with more like a family.Would YOU allow your kids to steal someone elses trainers/phone etc....and would YOU boot them out of the house because you wanted to go to the pub??....thought not.

Maybe the Government's 'Respect Agenda' will work...