Guest mattsta1964 Posted June 30, 2006 Share Posted June 30, 2006 Engage VENT SPLEEN MODE It's official! Question Time is an utter load of ******. The headline programme for political debate in the UK is a laughing stock Dimbleby! I'd kick your **** up to your shoulder blades If I had the chance The headline issue last night on Question TIme was regarding The Scottish minister's remarks about England's progress in the World Cup. Meanwhile, 42% of people's take home salaries are soaked up paying off mortgages and 100,000s people are priced out of the market altogether. I am absolutely fuming about this and I'm gonna do my Angry of Tunbridge Wells bit and write to the Beeb to tell what I think. SPLEEN VENTED VENT SPLEEN MODE DISENGAGED Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casual Observer Posted June 30, 2006 Share Posted June 30, 2006 Engage VENT SPLEEN MODE It's official! Question Time is an utter load of ******. The headline programme for political debate in the UK is a laughing stock Dimbleby! I'd kick your **** up to your shoulder blades If I had the chance The headline issue last night on Question TIme was regarding The Scottish minister's remarks about England's progress in the World Cup. Meanwhile, 42% of people's take home salaries are soaked up paying off mortgages and 100,000s people are priced out of the market altogether. I am absolutely fuming about this and I'm gonna do my Angry of Tunbridge Wells bit and write to the Beeb to tell what I think. SPLEEN VENTED VENT SPLEEN MODE DISENGAGED There is a higher than ever proportion of owner occupation in this country, so why should Question Time see house prices as an issue? People are still buying them, which means they are still affordable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mattsta1964 Posted June 30, 2006 Share Posted June 30, 2006 There is a higher than ever proportion of owner occupation in this country, so why should Question Time see house prices as an issue? People are still buying them, which means they are still affordable. Well! I'm gobsmacked. You've made 2499 posts on this site and that is the best response you can think of! LOL LOL! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apom Posted June 30, 2006 Share Posted June 30, 2006 There is a higher than ever proportion of owner occupation in this country, so why should Question Time see house prices as an issue? People are still buying them, which means they are still affordable. A pin lies in wait for every bubble and when the two eventually meet, a new wave of investors learns some very old lessons. less FTB's then ever Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casual Observer Posted June 30, 2006 Share Posted June 30, 2006 Well! I'm gobsmacked. You've made 2499 posts on this site and that is the best response you can think of! LOL LOL! Right though aren't I? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apom Posted June 30, 2006 Share Posted June 30, 2006 (edited) Right though aren't I? Never ask the barber if you need a haircut. and no you are not right.. to say that people are still buying makes things affordable only shows when they pay for it.. They have not bought property, they have bought credit... This is the important thing.. When you combine ignorance with leverage you get some pretty interesting results. Oh and less FTB's then at any time in history. Even durring massive recessions. Affordable? Edited June 30, 2006 by apom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casual Observer Posted June 30, 2006 Share Posted June 30, 2006 Depends how you define affordable. Affordable enough for people to be buying lots and lots of them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apom Posted June 30, 2006 Share Posted June 30, 2006 Affordable enough for people to be buying lots and lots of them? so, this market is not cyclical, house prices are not dropping.. and the IMF does not warn even more times then Merv about it.. and prices are not dropping.. lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichM Posted June 30, 2006 Share Posted June 30, 2006 "Affordable" if people take huge risks and make no provision for paying off the debt, yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casual Observer Posted June 30, 2006 Share Posted June 30, 2006 Never ask the barber if you need a haircut. and no you are not right.. to say that people are still buying makes things affordable only shows when they pay for it.. They have not bought property, they have bought credit... This is the important thing.. When you combine ignorance with leverage you get some pretty interesting results. Oh and less FTB's then at any time in history. Even durring massive recessions. Affordable? You are missing the point APOM. The original poster implied that he was incredulous that QT didn't focus on the subject of house prices. Why would they, with so many people demonstrating that they are able to buy them (on mortgages, just like they always have)? I would expect QT to deal with the subject if the percentage of owner occupation in the UK was falling, but it's not, it's rising. People who are buying now may be proven to be foolhardy in the future, but then again they may not. (2 years ago people on this forum described their colleagues who bought a house as "muppets", wheras in fact, with the benefit of hindsight, the abstainers could be better described as such!) Don't expect QT to see this as being the issue you think it is. Not everyone outside of HPC sees this as a problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xurbia Posted June 30, 2006 Share Posted June 30, 2006 (edited) Next that bunch of fully-pensioned-bombastic-fat-cun*ts in the Commons will be discussing whether tennis-players are be unfairly treated. Who cares if there is an unfettered immigration policy so long as some ball-hitting lesbos models are being slightly underpaid. Edited June 30, 2006 by Xurbia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casual Observer Posted June 30, 2006 Share Posted June 30, 2006 so, this market is not cyclical, house prices are not dropping.. and the IMF does not warn even more times then Merv about it.. and prices are not dropping.. lol. No, on average they are most certainly not dropping, unfortunately. They are rising slowly, or at least they are in the SE, and on average in the UK (I don't subscribe to the hysterical HPC conspiracy theory that figures are fiddled) "Affordable" if people take huge risks and make no provision for paying off the debt, yes. Maybe, but that is why prices are still rising. So I can't understand why people are denying it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCUMBAG Posted June 30, 2006 Share Posted June 30, 2006 (edited) Right though aren't I? I don't think so. FTBs account for 7.8% of the market compared to over 50% only 5 years ago, the average age of the FTB is around 35 and mortgages account for 42% of take home pay (comparable to the height of the boom in 1991). Average house prices are at a historically high multiple of average salary. Mortgage debt now equates to the GDP of our country. I earn 24k and the maximum the bank will lend me is 120k. I have a 20k deposit and the cheapest house in my town I can find is 150k (small 1 bed starter home). I am 10k short. I can't buy. I earn well above the average wage for my area. It's not affordable. You keep making the same point on posts over and over again and people keep shooting your argument down in flames and you don't seem to get it. A couple years ago everyone at work thought I was crazy when I said house prices are unnafordable. Now it is accepted all over the site that you just can't get on the ladder now unless you come into some serious money somehow. They must all be people of your age group and they have changed their outlook. Why is it taking you so long for the penny to drop even when you peruse this site every day? Are you playing some sort of psychological game? No, on average they are most certainly not dropping, unfortunately. They are rising slowly, or at least they are in the SE, and on average in the UK (I don't subscribe to the hysterical HPC conspiracy theory that figures are fiddled) Maybe, but that is why prices are still rising. So I can't understand why people are denying it. The Land Registry figures are the most accurate but are quite out of date. They show completed sales. They show falls over most of the country with the exception of Scotland and NI which are still rising. Those two figures are dragging up the annual average figure. The repossesion rate is rising. Unemployment is rising. Inflation (real inflation) is rising. It is really so stupid to assume that house prices will eventually come down against this economic backdrop? Edited June 30, 2006 by SCUMBAG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casual Observer Posted June 30, 2006 Share Posted June 30, 2006 I don't think so. FTBs account for 7.8% of the market compared to over 50% only 5 years ago, the average age of the FTB is around 35 and mortgages account for 42% of take home pay (comparable to the height of the boom in 1991). Average house prices are at a historically high multiple of average salary. Mortgage debt now equates to the GDP of our country. I earn 24k and the maximum the bank will lend me is 120k. I have a 20k deposit and the cheapest house in my town I can find is 150k (small 1 bed starter home). I am 10k short. I can't buy. I earn well above the average wage for my area. It's not affordable. You keep making the same point on posts over and over again and people keep shooting your argument down in flames and you don't seem to get it. The Land Registry figures are the most accurate but are quite out of date. They show completed sales. They show falls over most of the country with the exception of Scotland and NI which are still rising. Those two figures are dragging up the annual average figure. Your post is a bit self-contradictory! If prices are in fact falling, surely you have no problem? And I think you're missing the point. Just because you can't afford a house doesn't mean that the UK has an affordability problem - there are plenty of people still buying, that's why prices haven't crashed. You will know when prices become too high - they will drop in price. Surely to God, you can understand that?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GAL BEAR Posted June 30, 2006 Share Posted June 30, 2006 I watch QUESTION TIME every week (well most weeks) and NEVER is the issue of HOUSE PRICES ever mentioned. All they ever drone on about is bloody IRAQ! It really winds me up. Its' all they think people care about. It amazes me. It is without any doubt at all the most serious problem this country faces at present and no-one in the media seems to get it. People around me (at work) are now starting to realise that their kid won't be able to (or can't at the moment) afford thier own homes, the message is just starting to get thru, yet it is never considered a 'debatable' subject on these sort of programmes. I suppose what we want is to have the 'housing minister' on there. Who the hell is that at present (it was Precott wasn't it?) The main problem is too many MP's have a vested interest in NOT mentioning it as most of them have BTL's (icluding the PM). No-one 'high up' seems to realise the 'time bomb' this is creating. With no affordable housing lots mroe young people won't be able to afford to ;- 1. Leave home 2. Get married (or the equivlant) 3. Have kids This will create a huge burdon on Pensions etc surely. It has all kinds of negative connotations. And before anyone says that private renting is 'affordable' it bloody well isn't ! The average rent for an ex-council house round here (ROMFORD) is about £1200 a month. That is a hell of a lot of money! When I was renting a council flat only about 13 years ago is was costing me and my sister approx £70 - £80 each a month! Private renting was more but nothing to what it is now. I reckon if one of us did manage to get on the stupid programme and offer the question up some BBC exec would say 'Sorry no time left, we'll have to leave that question this week!'. :angry: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casual Observer Posted June 30, 2006 Share Posted June 30, 2006 I watch QUESTION TIME every week (well most weeks) and NEVER is the issue of HOUSE PRICES ever mentioned. All they ever drone on about is bloody IRAQ! It really winds me up. Its' all they think people care about. Yes, innocent civilians being killed in the name of our country is nothing compared to the house prices being too high, and people risking negative equity. Muppets, aren't they? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mattsta1964 Posted June 30, 2006 Share Posted June 30, 2006 Your post is a bit self-contradictory! If prices are in fact falling, surely you have no problem? And I think you're missing the point. Just because you can't afford a house doesn't mean that the UK has an affordability problem - there are plenty of people still buying, that's why prices haven't crashed. You will know when prices become too high - they will drop in price. Surely to God, you can understand that?? I take your point about the forthcoming crash not being an issue at the moment. Watching QT in 2-3 years time will be a different story I suspect! A lot of sob stories! It's still pretty shocking that the potential fiscal armageddon facing a lot of borrowers is not being discussed AT ALL in the media OR politics. I find this conspiracy of silence very surprising and deeply worrying.... to the point where I am almost beginning to suspect that there is a genuine conspiracy not to discuss it. I'm not a paranoid axe wielding UFO and 'Jesus raised a family in France' conspiracy theorist but the silence in the media is deafening. Galbear Your absolutely right of course and your frustrations are shared by many. I've mentioned before in this forum that if you remove the ability of decent law abiding, tax paying citizens to enjoy a small stake in society, ie, the right to affordable housing where they can do thye normal stuff like raise a family and afford a couple weeks holiday in Ibiza every year, then what is the bl*ody point of contributing to society at all. If property remains unaffordable to future generations, then people will just refuse to contribute. People will stop working, emigrate, become dole bludgers or buy a caravan and stick it on someone elses land. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GAL BEAR Posted June 30, 2006 Share Posted June 30, 2006 I take your point about the forthcoming crash not being an issue at the moment. Watching QT in 2-3 years time will be a different story I suspect! A lot of sob stories! It's still pretty shocking that the potential fiscal armageddon facing a lot of borrowers is not being discussed AT ALL in the media OR politics. I find this conspiracy of silence very surprising and deeply worrying.... to the point where I am almost beginning to suspect that there is a genuine conspiracy not to discuss it. I'm not a paranoid axe wielding UFO and 'Jesus raised a family in France' conspiracy theorist but the silence in the media is deafening. Well said, it really is the great 'unmentionable' subject isn't it. I swear to god it is more 'sensitive' to mention house prices falling than it is to discuss religion or politics! It is the one thing guaranteed to get peoples' gander up (even if they do not have a noticable 'vested interest) like BTL etc. We even had one ex-uni graduate (early 20's) working in our call centre. (in fact his degree is in economics and all he can get is temporary callc centre work). Any-way he reckons that house prices won't ever fall. I explained to him that if they don't he will NEVER be able to afford to buy a home. He just said "my salary will eventually catch up so i can". He's a grauduate in exonomics for Gods sake !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCUMBAG Posted June 30, 2006 Share Posted June 30, 2006 (edited) Your post is a bit self-contradictory! If prices are in fact falling, surely you have no problem? And I think you're missing the point. Just because you can't afford a house doesn't mean that the UK has an affordability problem - there are plenty of people still buying, that's why prices haven't crashed. You will know when prices become too high - they will drop in price. Surely to God, you can understand that?? Prices might be falling but still not enough for me to be able to buy. My point is that when the above average earner can't afford a house then the majority are priced out. What stage will we reach? Will you have to be high court judge before you can afford to buy a small one bed house? The people still buying are people using equity in their current homes. If FTBs aren't coming into the market (7.8%) and BTLs only account for 22% of the market then who else is buying? People are playing pass the parcel with houses. The only thing propping up the market at the bottom end is BTL and FTBs that are being subsidised by their parents. Without anyone at the bottom of the ladder then the people at the next rung can't sell, so can't buy the next rung up. BTLs won't want to move up the ladder so chains collapse. This is what I am seeing now in my local paper. This leads to over supply. The problem with most of the house price surveys is that they don't reflect the number of houses that aren't selling. Rightmove is a joke. They only report asking prices. You can ask £250k for a shoe box but that doesn't mean that you'll get it. A house is worth only as much as you are prepared to pay for it. The situation with house prices is very precarious not just in this country but globally. It is very sensitive to external economic stimulus. All it needs is a trigger. People said the river Mississippi wouldn’t burst its banks just because it hadn’t happened for years. All that happened was that the build up of water became so great that in the end when it did burst its banks it was just a lot worse. As any financial advisor worth his salt will tell you, if an asset is capable of making a lot of money then it is capable of loosing a lot of money as well. I will know when house prices are too high because they will fall in price? Well according to the most accurate house price survey, house prices are falling regionally. So they must be too high then. The last slump took 7 years to play out. This boom has been the longest and biggest in history. So any slump will take years to play out. Edited June 30, 2006 by SCUMBAG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GAL BEAR Posted June 30, 2006 Share Posted June 30, 2006 Next that bunch of fully-pensioned-bombastic-fat-cun*ts in the Commons will be discussing whether tennis-players are be unfairly treated. Who cares if there is an unfettered immigration policy so long as some ball-hitting lesbos models are being slightly underpaid. You are so right, that is just the sort of stupid 'topic' they think it is acceptable to discuss! And just for the record I am femle and I don't think women players should get as much dosh as the men as they only play 3 sets, when they play 5 sets then they will have something to complain about! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casual Observer Posted June 30, 2006 Share Posted June 30, 2006 Prices might be falling but still not enough for me to be able to buy. My point is that when the above average earner can't afford a house then the majority are priced out. What stage will we reach? Will you have to be high court judge before you can afford to buy a small one bed house? These 2 points are contradictory again! If prices are falling, albeit slowly, how will we reach the point when only judges will be able to afford a 1-bedder?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GAL BEAR Posted June 30, 2006 Share Posted June 30, 2006 Yes, innocent civilians being killed in the name of our country is nothing compared to the house prices being too high, and people risking negative equity. Muppets, aren't they? Well your right about the 'muppets' bit ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mattsta1964 Posted June 30, 2006 Share Posted June 30, 2006 You are so right, that is just the sort of stupid 'topic' they think it is acceptable to discuss! And just for the record I am femle and I don't think women players should get as much dosh as the men as they only play 3 sets, when they play 5 sets then they will have something to complain about! When it all goes Pete Tong, we'll have to have a national 'Sarah Beeny Night'. Every village in the country will burn effigies of her and let off a few fireworks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casual Observer Posted June 30, 2006 Share Posted June 30, 2006 Well your right about the 'muppets' bit ! And not the other bit? I thought we were agreeing that high house prices was the most important problem in the UK? I will know when house prices are too high because they will fall in price? Well according to the most accurate house price survey, house prices are falling regionally. So they must be too high then. The last slump took 7 years to play out. This boom has been the longest and biggest in history. So any slump will take years to play out. At last - you've come around to my way of thinking... ..which is that you can't buck the market; prices can't get too high, because when they do, prices fall, just like you say they are now doing. So no need for a Question Time debate, or questions in the House, the market will provide the solution. So glad we agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GAL BEAR Posted June 30, 2006 Share Posted June 30, 2006 And not the other bit? I thought we were agreeing that high house prices was the most important problem in the UK? Correct again ! I'm glad we agree on so much. There are 3 topics which I think are important in this country. Global warming Pensions Immigration House prices 3 out of the 4 are regualarly discussed but the 4th one is not. Seems to me the basic need of a roof over ones' head is an issue worth discussing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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