robo1968 Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 Amusing to see this thread become a parody of itself. Angry people angrily using left-wing as a term of angry abuse while wallowing in collective hypocrisy and self pity. And yes perhaps I've misunderstood what right-wing commonly means, because if this pile of steaming collective woes are 'right' I need to find a new definition for small state, pro people ideals. Here's a nice example of our fair and reasonable 'right-wing' government: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/britain-is-too-tolerant-and-should-interfere-more-in-peoples-lives-says-david-cameron-10246517.html The Typical lefty resorts to being a victim without any form of substantive response, not the first to say it but here is a good example Re the article, how dare Cameron stop people preaching hate and division, bout time it happened, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest_northshore_* Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 (edited) The Typical lefty resorts to being a victim without any form of substantive response, not the first to say it but here is a good example Re the article, how dare Cameron stop people preaching hate and division, bout time it happened, Can you explain how I'm lefty or claiming any substantive response - or is that just your stock-copy paste response to anyone who doesn't agree with you? I said I found it amusing which means I'm laughing at you, not feeling victimised. I'll ignore the irony in your hate/division comment, but perhaps you could explain how interfering with and legislating against people's right to peacefully believe what they like is anything but statist. Is there any limit to your advocacy of authoritarian Government or are you just a closet Stalinist? Edit: Stalinist not communist, because your outlook seems so pro-authoritarian it's an offence to Communist ideology to imply that bias. Edited May 14, 2015 by northshore Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robo1968 Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 (edited) Can you explain how I'm lefty or claiming any substantive response - or is that just your stock-copy paste response to anyone who doesn't agree with you? I said I found it amusing which means I'm laughing at you, not feeling victimised. I'll ignore the irony in your hate/division comment, but perhaps you could explain how interfering with and legislating against people's right to peacefully believe what they like is anything but statist. Is there any limit to your advocacy of authoritarian Government or are you just a closet Stalinist? Edit: Stalinist not communist, because your outlook seems so pro-authoritarian it's an offence to Communist ideology to imply that bias. The title of this thread is civilised debate, as with so many opinions coming from a 'non right' opinion it is always the non right who bring up 'hate' and 'racism' (I appreciate you didn't add that) . I see you are desperate to pigeon hole me with a name/class and I am sure you are tempted for it to be a rude one, when people have nothing left to argue with that is what they do Further to the article. I don't feel victimised at all, I just want people in this country to pull in the right direction, it is clear that with no in the past intervention this has been abused hence the need for this action. Same goes for work dodgers too. Being deemed the 'nasty' party is fine for me, the fact that it is imposing more restriction on those who choose to divide or con the system is again, fine by me. Of course the bankers will be brought up next Edited May 14, 2015 by robo1968 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest_northshore_* Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 The title of this thread is civilised debate, as with so many opinions coming from a 'non right' opinion it is always the non right who bring up 'hate' and 'racism' (I appreciate you didn't add that) . I see you are desperate to pigeon hole me with a name/class and I am sure you are tempted for it to be a rude one, when people have nothing left to argue with that is what they do Further to the article. I don't feel victimised at all, I just want people in this country to pull in the right direction, it is clear that with no in the past intervention this has been abused hence the need for this action. Same goes for work dodgers too. Being deemed the 'nasty' party is fine for me, the fact that it is imposing more restriction on those who choose to divide or con the system is again, fine by me. Of course the bankers will be brought up next I'm not desperate about anything. Note that you first replied to my post not vice-versa. In broad policy terms I couldn't care less between our mainstream choices, and I'm certainly not expecting forum posts to make any substantive difference to debate. I'll admit I'm disappointed by what 'the right' has evolved into, but as I said above (and I meant it) perhaps my interpretation of the core left-right divide as one primarily about the extent of the State is wrong. If you're not sure what you believe that's fair enough. If you have different views on different things like most people, that's also fair enough. But having read a number of your comments over the years, you shouldn't be surprised by pushback against claims of Government influence, intervention and incentives while also championing them. That's a circular argument to nowhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robo1968 Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 I'm not desperate about anything. Note that you first replied to my post not vice-versa. In broad policy terms I couldn't care less between our mainstream choices, and I'm certainly not expecting forum posts to make any substantive difference to debate. I'll admit I'm disappointed by what 'the right' has evolved into, but as I said above (and I meant it) perhaps my interpretation of the core left-right divide as one primarily about the extent of the State is wrong. If you're not sure what you believe that's fair enough. If you have different views on different things like most people, that's also fair enough. But having read a number of your comments over the years, you shouldn't be surprised by pushback against claims of Government influence, intervention and incentives while also championing them. That's a circular argument to nowhere. I think there is a difference between being sure about what you believe and having a willing to listen to others opinions especially on HPC including yours here. I don't read the papers, they are either left or right, I might as well go and stand on a football terrace The problem as I see it is that so many comments have been so polarised during the election to the extend that it is football fan like. Anything the tories come up with is wrong and vice versa. Fact is Labour and their form of left wing politics lost, it wasn't popular enough for one reason or another, it is a time for them to consult with the electorate about what they might support and suggest accordingly, not the unions or from the party within. For this seems to me to be arrogance. Regarding your comment about state intervention, for me it does not make sense to point fingers at the government over whether they are going to be one or the other, this is where they should intervene, recent history has shown that it has been necessary, if it stopped one more suicide bomber and saved people from extremism it would be worth it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiveinHope Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 Isn't it just about whether your heritage is coal mining. It's all Maggie's fault (from https://twitter.com/kncukier/status/596982794435321856) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest_northshore_* Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 I think there is a difference between being sure about what you believe and having a willing to listen to others opinions especially on HPC including yours here. I don't read the papers, they are either left or right, I might as well go and stand on a football terrace The problem as I see it is that so many comments have been so polarised during the election to the extend that it is football fan like. Anything the tories come up with is wrong and vice versa. Fact is Labour and their form of left wing politics lost, it wasn't popular enough for one reason or another, it is a time for them to consult with the electorate about what they might support and suggest accordingly, not the unions or from the party within. For this seems to me to be arrogance. Regarding your comment about state intervention, for me it does not make sense to point fingers at the government over whether they are going to be one or the other, this is where they should intervene, recent history has shown that it has been necessary, if it stopped one more suicide bomber and saved people from extremism it would be worth it I don't interpret either Labour or the Conservatives as left or right, and view both as arrogantly similar. I explained in a previous post why I grumble more about the Conservatives, so won't repeat myself. If, with democratic mandates, that implies I have a disdain for all the establishment and much of the population then and now that's probably about right. I understand what you're saying on intervention although don't share the stance, but that's exactly what every other person says about their pet peeves with similarly passionate justification. I don't think any progress will be made towards personal autonomy, responsibility and opportunity until fingers are pointed at ourselves and each other rather than Government. However like everyone else I also succumb to hypocrisy by conceding that ideologically and practically money and land demand either absolute state direction or none at all. Given that the later infers an extent of anarchy that's just not going to happen I capitulate to the former. That's pragmatism over ideology but I don't pretend otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R K Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 Isn't it just about whether your heritage is coal mining. It's all Maggie's fault (from https://twitter.com/kncukier/status/596982794435321856) Correlation not causation. Coal was needed to power local industry. Tisn't needed to power land rentierism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robo1968 Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 Isn't it just about whether your heritage is coal mining. It's all Maggie's fault (from https://twitter.com/kncukier/status/596982794435321856) I spent some time with a chap the other day, a couple of days in which as part of another couple we spoke about all issues and we agreed on all, the state of the UK, immigration, manufacturing, education and deficit etc, I didn't say my political leanings but I tend to support UKIP more than others, The subject cropped up about about the election and someone asked how he'd vote and he replied 'Labour, because all our family have always voted Labour', he is from one of those areas and that just about summed up some peoples' reasons.... rightly or wrongly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EUBanana Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 The subject cropped up about about the election and someone asked how he'd vote and he replied 'Labour, because all our family have always voted Labour', he is from one of those areas and that just about summed up some peoples' reasons.... rightly or wrongly Democracy doesn't really have much chance to shine when that's the sum total of people's motivations. This is why a lot of the post colonial African democracies immediately went to hell in a handbasket. They vote along tribal lines come what may, they assume the absolute worst motivations of the other tribes come what may. Donkeys with a red rosette make a very poor basis for effective government. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robo1968 Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 (edited) Democracy doesn't really have much chance to shine when that's the sum total of people's motivations. This is why a lot of the post colonial African democracies immediately went to hell in a handbasket. They vote along tribal lines come what may, they assume the absolute worst motivations of the other tribes come what may. Donkeys with a red rosette make a very poor basis for effective government. or opposition, Ed Miliband in particular The Labour party election process was flawed, the Union vote ruined everything and if the right person had been elected I suspect there would be a different scenario today Edited May 14, 2015 by robo1968 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XswampyX Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 The subject cropped up about about the election and someone asked how he'd vote and he replied 'Labour, because all our family have always voted Labour', he is from one of those areas and that just about summed up some peoples' reasons.... rightly or wrongly Hehe! What did he say? "Life here has always been hard, we are ignored, exploited and are very poor. I've always voted Labour and it's always the same, terrible.... I'm voting Labour again, my dad did and his life was s**t as well!" Oh my sides. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robo1968 Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 Hehe! What did he say? "Life here has always been hard, we are ignored, exploited and are very poor. I've always voted Labour and it's always the same, terrible.... I'm voting Labour again, my dad did and his life was s**t as well!" Oh my sides. He is a parent of my partner, really interesting guy and I enjoyed his company, There seems to be a disconnect between what some people think about society and the tradition they follow when voting, it might be the same for Righties but I have only ever experienced it with left wingers Another classic- Interviewer: Who are you voting for? Voter: Anyone but the tories, I hate Maggie Thatcher Interviewer: How old were you when she resigned? Voter: 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EUBanana Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 That's just the power of propaganda. She did win four general elections after all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.