Email Exchange With Ea

[frenchy]

Edit, please start reading from the bottom, got pretty annoyed with the tone of a so called professional...

Edited again to remove names...

-------- Forwarded Message --------

From:

Reply-to:

To:

Cc:

Subject: RE: xxxx

Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2011 14:16:06 +0100

Dear zzz,

Thanks for getting back to me.

As we both know the market value of a house is what it actually sells for. Asking prices are just that: asking prices!

Time will tell what the market value of this house, if or when is actually sells. The land registry data paints a very different story though and so does Property Bee.

If it is of any interest, over the past year I have heard this line many times, on 4 bed detached on the market at 290k in XXXXX. Surprisingly enough in all cases the houses sold between 225k and 250k (please check the land registry for details). Needless to say that I never heard back from the EA involved after having been lectured on market value...

We have plenty of time and a 226k deposit, so if you believe the market is not where I think it is yet then I will wait a little longer... in the mean time best of luck to the seller, but I would take that 200k offer if I was them.

Best Regards,

xxxx

On Tue, 2011-09-20 at 12:31 +0100, xxx wrote:

Dear xxx,

>

>

>

> Thank you for your email, however I must inform you that this offer is not acceptable and miles away from the current market value of this property. We have already turned down offers in excess of 200k for this property and to give you an indication as to what is acceptable then I would suggest a figure of 210k minimum would be more realistic. If this is not something you are prepared to go to then I would gracefully thank you for your interest and suggest you concentrate on finding something else.

>

>

>

> I look forward to hearing from you.

>

>

>

> Kind Regards,

>

> xxx

>

> Branch Manager

>

> Oxxxhome

>

> 01454 xxxx

>

>

>

>

>

> From: xxx

> Sent: 20 September 2011 09:59

> To: xxx

> Subject: xxx

>

>

>

>

> Dear xxx,

>

> Thanks for sending us a copy of the EPC of xxxxxx viewed on Monday with xxx. We have considered this house and will make an offer.

>

> However, based on the current market rate for large 4 bed detached (250k-260k) and small 4 bed detached (220k-230k), xxxxx is very much overpriced for a small 3 bed detached house.

>

> Considering that it is in need of some significant upgrading (kitchen, bathroom and decor) I am only prepared to offer 184k, this is a little more than my personal valuation but is a symbolic 100k more than was paid by the owner in 1998 which is a good offer considering current market conditions and an excellent offer based on my perception of future market conditions.

>

> As discussed in the past with your colleague zzzz, we are in a position to move straight away and complete very quickly as finance and solicitor have been in place for some time (having tried to purchase at auction recently) and are awaiting our next instruction.

>

> I will leave it with you to pass our offer on and should it be accepted I will need an additional viewing before instruction a survey.

>

> Many thanks and Best Regards,

>

Edited September 20, 2011 by frenchy

[Democorruptcy]

I would have said cash buyer without mentioning the £226k.

They didn't have to try looking over your shoulder because you put your cards face up on the table.

[frenchy]

Redhat

you are probably right but I don't want this house that much, so whether I can't pay more than asking price (219k BTW) I would not offer more than 190k for it.

I am pretty fed up with arrogant EA who can even behave professionally (and he is supposed to be Branch Manager).

On the subject of deposit, even though I can pay cash I would get a mortgage anyway as half of my savings is returning 4.5 or 5.5% tax free.

Edited September 20, 2011 by frenchy

[frenchy]

Mods: sorry I should have put this in anecdotal, please feel free to move accordingly

[bmf]

Mods: sorry I should have put this in anecdotal, please feel free to move accordingly

You redacted the address in the reply but not the original mail.

Love Wikileaks.

[leicestersq]

You redacted the address in the reply but not the original mail.

Love Wikileaks.

I trust that £226k was legit. If you have the documents to prove it, there wont be a problem.

Love HRMC.

[Dancake]

I had quite the oppsosite response from an EA yesterday after putting in an offer about 30% below 2007 prices. We pointed out much the same things. Cash buyer etc etc. He didn't even blink at the difference in price.

"Thank you very much Dan, I will stress your postion to the vendor with your offer and get back to you as soon as I have any news".

Still don't expect it to be accepted but I could almost smell the desperation in the air!

[leicestersq]

I had quite the oppsosite response from an EA yesterday after putting in an offer about 30% below 2007 prices. We pointed out much the same things. Cash buyer etc etc. He didn't even blink at the difference in price.

"Thank you very much Dan, I will stress your postion to the vendor with your offer and get back to you as soon as I have any news".

Still don't expect it to be accepted but I could almost smell the desperation in the air!

Try using deodorant, then it wont be so apparent to the EA.

[Butthead]

I had quite the oppsosite response from an EA yesterday after putting in an offer about 30% below 2007 prices. We pointed out much the same things. Cash buyer etc etc. He didn't even blink at the difference in price.

"Thank you very much Dan, I will stress your postion to the vendor with your offer and get back to you as soon as I have any news".

Still don't expect it to be accepted but I could almost smell the desperation in the air!

It could be that this EA is simply being professional as should be expected. I'd argue the stressed response of the EA in the OP is more a sign of desperation than what you received, no?

[General Melchett]

Here's the thing though, putting myself in the place of this vendor.

If it was my gaffe I'd be quite happy to sell it to the OP for, lets say the same as i paid for it waybackwhen, but I cant do that until the people selling the property that I want to buy are willing (or have to) do something similar. Otherwise I've sold my house and cant buy another. And seeing as I dont have to sell (in my case because any move is just to get a nicer house, plus the gubbermint has effectively removed the possibility of distressed sales through its policies), well.....

We're all in for a long wait.

Popcorn, anyone?

[frenchy]

You redacted the address in the reply but not the original mail.

Love Wikileaks.

sorted, thanks

[frenchy]

I trust that £226k was legit. If you have the documents to prove it, there wont be a problem.

Love HRMC.

sadly it is. I would love to work cash in hand but can't...

[Dancake]

It could be that this EA is simply being professional as should be expected. I'd argue the stressed response of the EA in the OP is more a sign of desperation than what you received, no?

Quite possibly, yes. I have had responses similar to the OP on other offers so maybe this was indeed just a bit of professionalism.

[frenchy]

Here's the thing though, putting myself in the place of this vendor.

If it was my gaffe I'd be quite happy to sell it to the OP for, lets say the same as i paid for it waybackwhen, but I cant do that until the people selling the property that I want to buy are willing (or have to) do something similar. Otherwise I've sold my house and cant buy another. And seeing as I dont have to sell (in my case because any move is just to get a nicer house, plus the gubbermint has effectively removed the possibility of distressed sales through its policies), well.....

We're all in for a long wait.

Popcorn, anyone?

EDIT: last sold in 1998 for 84k (and in 1996 for 65k)

you see the thing is that this house is empty, owners have moved several years ago to Cotswold and the house has been let since but had no tenant in the past few months (spoke to next door neighbor). Also here is the PBee details, it has already sold twice...

History

date event

Sun 18 Sep 2011 01:02:51 BST

Status changed: from 'Sold STC' to 'Available'

Sat 03 Sep 2011 21:24:23 BST

Status changed: from 'Available' to 'Sold STC'

Tue 23 Aug 2011 23:54:40 BST

Price changed: from '£219,950' to '£224,950'

Mon 22 Aug 2011 23:18:26 BST

Price changed: from '£224,950' to '£219,950'

Sat 13 Aug 2011 09:58:39 BST

Status changed: from 'Sold STC' to 'Available'

Tue 09 Aug 2011 18:43:39 BST

Status changed: from 'Available' to 'Sold STC'

Thu 07 Jul 2011 10:23:43 BST

Price changed: from '£229,950' to '£224,950'

Tue 14 Jun 2011 11:09:29 BST

Initial entry found.

Edited September 20, 2011 by frenchy

[General Melchett]

Yes, but it still seems most likely that they are renting somewhere now. So even if they want to, they cant sell for 65K or whatever whilst the old codgers they want to buy their new place in the Cotswolds from wont sell for a penny less then half a million quid....even though they paid 2 grand for it back in the day And so it goes on.

[frenchy]

Some updates after my last reply, again please read bottom email first:

Hi xxxx,

I know it went STC twice before but it has not sold yet (although it only takes one mug), whatever the RICS says:

History

date event

Sun 18 Sep 2011 01:02:51 BST Status changed: from 'Sold STC' to 'Available'

*

Sat 03 Sep 2011 21:24:23 BST Status changed: from 'Available' to 'Sold STC'

*

Tue 23 Aug 2011 23:54:40 BST Price changed: from '£219,950' to '£224,950'

*

Mon 22 Aug 2011 23:18:26 BST Price changed: from '£224,950' to '£219,950'

*

Sat 13 Aug 2011 09:58:39 BST Status changed: from 'Sold STC' to 'Available'

*

Tue 09 Aug 2011 18:43:39 BST Status changed: from 'Available' to 'Sold STC'

*

Thu 07 Jul 2011 10:23:43 BST Price changed: from '£229,950' to '£224,950'

*

Tue 14 Jun 2011 11:09:29 BST Initial entry found.

*

I also notice that they have tried to sell this house for years ( ****zoopla link to archive dating 2006 on at 236k**** ) so it can't be that great a buy.

As far as the LR is concerned, it is one month out of date not 5. The land registry is updated as soon a sale is completed and solicitors report the sale.

Current LR data was last made public on 31/08/2011 and include sales competed up to 31/07/2011.

What takes months is completion (not update of LR data) when there is a long chain.

The LR only lags NW, Halifax and RM indexes because those index bear very little resemblance to reality (clue average asking price in UK = 230k, average sold prices = 160k).

I would add, on the subject of LR data lagging other indicators, that in a falling market, future LR data are only going to be worse anyway.

Anyway, I trust you will have passed our offer to the owner and informed them that cash buyers with no chain were interested in handing them a 100k mark-up. And I hope that next time they will get their 210k (third time lucky and all that).

I wish you good luck too,

Many thanks,

xxxx

On Tue, 2011-09-20 at 15:26 +0100, xxx wrote:

Dear xxxx

>

>

>

> The value of a house is based on numerous comparable properties we have sold in the last three months, not just what somebody is prepared to pay for it. In this particular instance we have sold this property twice already and twice it has been valued by a qualified RICS surveyor at 210k so I would not be advising my client correctly to accept anything less given the surveyors professional opinion. Unfortunately on both occasions the bottom of the chain fell apart and the sale did not complete. Therefore I have no reservation that we will achieve the same again if not more.

>

>

>

> Please remember the data on land registry is also at best 5 months out of date.

>

>

>

> Thank you for your interest and good luck with your search.

>

>

>

> Kind Regards,

[General Melchett]

Never NEVER fall in love with a house you dont own, Frenchy. One of the cardinal rules of house hunting.

Save yourself a lot of pain and consider other properties.

[frenchy]

Never NEVER fall in love with a house you dont own, Frenchy. One of the cardinal rules of house hunting.

Save yourself a lot of pain and consider other properties.

like I said previously I am not all that bothered (it is smaller than what I would like to buy and am only considering a smaller house while waiting for what I want to drop further, while keeping a deposit obviously).

Anyway, this is making my day, I would like to see the EA fuming at the other end of the web, thinking that I am a t*sser in the same way I believe he is....

[grandmaster]

Having gone down the smart aleck route with EAs before, I think it's ultimately pointless to wind them up. At some point you might actually need them on your side. I groan now when a property I'm interested in pops up and it's Spicer McColl as the EA as my previous behaviour will make them very hostile to any offer I make.

I'd simply have stuck by the offer and asked the vendors to think carefully about it, then sit back and see what happens.

[frenchy]

Having gone down the smart aleck route with EAs before, I think it's ultimately pointless to wind them up. At some point you might actually need them on your side. I groan now when a property I'm interested in pops up and it's Spicer McColl as the EA as my previous behaviour will make them very hostile to any offer I make.

I'd simply have stuck by the offer and asked the vendors to think carefully about it, then sit back and see what happens.

Agreed but I couldn't resist.

Had the agent replied in a professional manner in the first place I would have left it there but even though I agree I may need them in the future, I am not actually sure I would want to view a house on with people like that. It is a tricky one I must admit.

[TheCountOfNowhere]

Well done to the OP.

The EA is being present with a new reality...i.e. a buyer that can actually proceed and is dictating the value of the house.

More people should take this tack.

I viewed a house a couple of weeks ago, it was £200K over-valued compared to houses that have sold.

I happily pointed this out to the EA. He told me I was wrong and he has a buyer willing to pay near asking.

It's not gone SSTC, funny that.

EA and Sellers need to hear the truth from buyers. Everyone on HPC should be viewing and offerring real feedback on a regular basis.

Edited September 20, 2011 by TheCountOfNowhere

[cybernoid]

Thanks for posting, interesting to see how they think. Sold it twice already? That's a new definition of sold. And a 'professional opinion' trumps a real world actual offer when evaluating the worth of something, again quite muddled thinking. And why did the chain collapse at the bottom i wonder, nothing to do with ftbs not being able to proceed based on an over estimate of what they could borrow, or what deposit could be raised...? Until the prices fall at the bottom of these collapsing chains, they will continue to collapse, preventing purchase all the way up, and of course propagating the price drops all the way up as well. This is all pretty obvious and logical thinking, but eas are not in that thankless hated job because they're smart are they.

Interesting, unfortunately we are some way away from reasonable offers being accepted, i wouldn't bother viewing until some sense returns to the market. I expect many eas to go broke before they start acting in accordance with the economic reality. Ill shed no tears but in the mean time they are slowing the progress to a healthier market with their stupidity. It's ingrained in the uk psyche... It will take time to change.

I think it's a waste of your time to do any viewings at the moment.

[InlikeFlynn]

I had quite the oppsosite response from an EA yesterday after putting in an offer about 30% below 2007 prices. We pointed out much the same things. Cash buyer etc etc. He didn't even blink at the difference in price.

"Thank you very much Dan, I will stress your postion to the vendor with your offer and get back to you as soon as I have any news".

Still don't expect it to be accepted but I could almost smell the desperation in the air!

We could be about to submit an insultingly low offer so your story pleased me. Good to hear that some EAs are being realistic. Could I ask a couple of questions, how much below asking price was your offer? had the house been on the market for some time? where in the country are you (just the first two letters of the postcode will do)?

Hope you don't think I'm prying, I'm just trying to get some idea of where asking prices are relative to the current market value!

[grandmaster]

The best way to do that is to use Land Registry data which in some cases is revelatory.

[InlikeFlynn]

The best way to do that is to use Land Registry data which in some cases is revelatory.

Good point grandmaster, the only problem I have is that for the sites I use for land reg. data (Rightmove, ourproperty.co.uk) there seems to be a long delay between the sale completing and data appearing.