EUBanana Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 "In the long run we'll all be dead." Cheers, Keynes. Nothing is forever - nothing to do with Keynes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tahoma Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 All I am asking is that you stop demanding I be shot for disagreeing with you. Can you extend me that courtesy? Mate, to be quite honest I would probably want to shoot you whether we agreed or not. You've got the whiff of one of those 'revolutionaries' that are kissing babies one minute, and shooting their fathers the next for counter revolutionary thoughts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Injin Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 Mate, to be quite honest I would probably want to shoot you whether we agreed or not. You've got the whiff of one of those 'revolutionaries' that are kissing babies one minute, and shooting their fathers the next for counter revolutionary thoughts. Then why pretend you are moral or rational? You are just another in a long line of dickheads with an opinion and the willingness to use a gun to enforce it. Evil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tahoma Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 Then why pretend you are moral or rational? You are just another in a long line of dickheads with an opinion and the willingness to use a gun to enforce it. Evil. You'd reach for a gun the second it suited you. You would 'know' you were 'right' to go down that route. It would be one of your newly minted 'facts'. I was joking about shooting you btw. In reality, I would just avoid you like the plague. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Injin Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 You'd reach for a gun the second it suited you. You would 'know' you were 'right' to go down that route. It would be one of your newly minted 'facts'. Nope. I was joking about shooting you btw. In reality, I would just avoid you like the plague. You are deadly serious about shooting me for disagreeing with you. That's what you saying you want "limited government" means. It means that you, Tahoma, want to shoot me for not wanting the same things that you do. You want to take from me againt my will to provide for yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tahoma Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 You want to take from me againt my will to provide for yourself. Your biggest fear, Injin, is that I don't want to take from you. Even if I were that way inclined, you have nothing I want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluffy666 Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 That's what you saying you want "limited government" means. It means that you, Tahoma, want to shoot me for not wanting the same things that you do. No, that's just a pretty stupid use of a false dichotomy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Injin Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 No, that's just a pretty stupid use of a false dichotomy. No, it's the factual reality of what a government is. if you ask a government for anything at all, you are asking for someone somewhere to be bullied to get you what you want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Injin Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 Your biggest fear, Injin, is that I don't want to take from you. Even if I were that way inclined, you have nothing I want. Sure I do. You want me to avoid certain places on the earth that is my home. You call it "your front room" or "my garden" but you ain't paying me for my lost freedom, instead you are demanding my movement be changed especially for you, or else you will have me hurt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tahoma Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 Sure I do. You want me to avoid certain places on the earth that is my home. You call it "your front room" or "my garden" but you ain't paying me for my lost freedom, instead you are demanding my movement be changed especially for you, or else you will have me hurt. I did wonder what your position was on houses. You are saying there is no such thing as a private house? You should be able to enter at will? Your posts have denied me free space on a MySQL database. I demand compensation of £1 per post. Being a kind man, I will accept one Kilo of Gold instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Injin Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 I did wonder what your position was on houses. You are saying there is no such thing as a private house? You should be able to enter at will? Why not? Your posts have denied me free space on a MySQL database. I demand compensation of £1 per post. Being a kind man, I will accept one Kilo of Gold instead. I'm not preventing you from doing anything. By all means, remove or replace my posts. Just make sure you compensate me when you do so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tahoma Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 By all means, remove or replace my posts. I can but dream. Your posts have prevented me from having posts appear exactly where yours are. I want my posts to be where yours are. I want compensation. £1 per post. Or you are evil. And want to kill me. People have to scroll further to see my posts. Because of your posts. You are killing their mouse wheels. Compensate them. I know you think you are a great thinker Injin, but your position is completely ludicrous. Your blog would not be a ghost town if you had such valid things to say, but in the free market of ideas so keenly measured by your blog's lack of visitors, you are wanting. Having been denied affirmation there, you instead machine gun this board with posts, the internet equivalent of junk mail. If you post below, you are denying others the space to post. £1. Now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Injin Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 I can but dream. Your posts have prevented me from having posts appear exactly where yours are. I want my posts to be where yours are. I want compensation. £1 per post. Or you are evil. And want to kill me. People have to scroll further to see my posts. Because of your posts. You are killing their mouse wheels. Compensate them. I know you think you are a great thinker Injin, but your position is completely ludicrous. Your blog would not be a ghost town if you had such valid things to say, but in the free market of ideas so keenly measured by your blog's lack of visitors, you are wanting. Having been denied affirmation there, you instead machine gun this board with posts, the internet equivalent of junk mail. If you post below, you are denying others the space to post. £1. Now. I'm not preventing you from posting in those places, nor am I denying you anything. Go for it. I am more than happy for you to overwrite them, if you do so the moral and rational thing is to then pay me for my loss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tahoma Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 I'm not preventing you from posting in those places, nor am I denying you anything. Go for it. Yes you are. You are preventing me from posting in certain places. I had big plans for post #311 on this thread. You've taken it and I want compensation. Now. My having a garden does not prevent you having a garden. However, you seem to think my garden is some sort of affront to your liberty. You're the big man of principle, so pay up. Now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Injin Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 Yes you are. You are preventing me from posting in certain places. I had big plans for post #311 on this thread. You've taken it and I want compensation. Now. My having a garden does not prevent you having a garden. However, you seem to think my garden is some sort of affront to your liberty. You're the big man of principle, so pay up. Now. I'm not preventing you in any way shape or form. Go for it, post away. If you do overwrite my existing stuff (I got there first) the moral thing is to pay me up for it. (I'm sorry your plan to show my hypocrisy or whatever it is you are up to isn't going to plan, but theres no point repeating the same failed approach again.) In addition - I don't want you to not have a garden. I just want to walk over it when I want to without you shooting me. I am quite happy to pay for any damage I do while doing that, but if there is no damage I want free movement and no charge. This is rational, moral and sane. Your approach "I WANT A GARDEN! EVERYONE ELSE MUST OBEY OR DIE! WAH!! WAH!" is childish. evil and insane. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tahoma Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 I'm not preventing you in any way shape or form. Go for it, post away. If you do overwrite my existing stuff (I got there first) the moral thing is to pay me up for it. (I'm sorry your plan to show my hypocrisy or whatever it is you are up to isn't going to plan, but theres no point repeating the same failed approach again.) In addition - I don't want you to not have a garden. I just want to walk over it when I want to without you shooting me. I am quite happy to pay for any damage I do while doing that, but if there is no damage I want free movement and no charge. This is rational, moral and sane. Your approach "I WANT A GARDEN! EVERYONE ELSE MUST OBEY OR DIE! WAH!! WAH!" is childish. evil and insane. Gotcha. Bye, Injin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Injin Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 Gotcha. Bye, Injin. Read the whole post, maybe? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluffy666 Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 No, it's the factual reality of what a government is. No, it isn't. if you ask a government for anything at all, you are asking for someone somewhere to be bullied to get you what you want. Yeah, but they'll get something too, so it should all balance out, especially as the existence of a stable (and accountable/democratic) state* ensures greater prosperity for all - so indeed the net result is that we are all better off, and hence have a higher degree of practical freedom. I mean, technically you'd have greater freedom if no one else existed on the planet, but the lights wouldn't come on and the car wouldn't start. [*Insert vast ongoing argument about the size and extent of such state here] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Injin Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 No, it isn't. yes, it is. All government is force. Get over it. Yeah, but they'll get something too, so it should all balance out, especially as the existence of a stable (and accountable/democratic) state* ensures greater prosperity for all - so indeed the net result is that we are all better off, and hence have a higher degree of practical freedom. I mean, technically you'd have greater freedom if no one else existed on the planet, but the lights wouldn't come on and the car wouldn't start. [*Insert vast ongoing argument about the size and extent of such state here] Nope. If you force someone they lose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mirage Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 yes, it is. All government is force. If you force someone they lose. You never explain what you mean by force. Do you restrict it to injury-causing physical violence? Deprivation of physical mobility? Or extend it to subtler curbs on freedom, perhaps by economic means? What do you mean? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluffy666 Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 If you force someone they lose. Prove it, for all possible cases. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Injin Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 You never explain what you mean by force. Do you restrict it to injury-causing physical violence? Deprivation of physical mobility? Or extend it to subtler curbs on freedom, perhaps by economic means? What do you mean? One human physically attacking another without being under direct physical threat themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Injin Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 Prove it, for all possible cases. You lose whatever it was that you did want to do, which must always be a higher value than the thing you were made to do. Therefore if you force someone, they always lose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluffy666 Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 You lose whatever it was that you did want to do, which must always be a higher value than the thing you were made to do. Therefore if you force someone, they always lose. So if I force my kids to eat something other than chocolate biscuits, they lose? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mirage Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 One human physically attacking another without being under direct physical threat themselves. Thanks. So that's a pretty narrow definition - physical violence only. So how immoral is a government if, say only 1% of the population are unwilling to participate as tax payers? What about buying up all local food stocks and letting someone poorer starve? Would that be a legitimate move in the game of life? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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