NO PARTICULAR VESTED INTERESTED

[GAL BEAR]

In case anyone wonders I am a 40 + homeowner who has no particular interest in whether the market goes up or down. I have made over £150,000 profit on my house in 10 years (bought in the last crash 1992) but I don't care how much my house is worth as I will still have to pay more to move up the ladder. What is happening with house prices is absolutley scandalous, just greedy estate agents , banks etc mostly, they are the only ones that gain, but ironically their own kids won't be able to buy homes so they are all shooting themselves in the foot!!!

I am praying for a crash and although I could have easily become a BUY TO LET LANDLORD myself I honestly could not rob young people blind the way they are doing, it is obcene and the government should do something about it before there is a riot or something, if I were a young First time buyer I would be organising marches in London (similar to the protest against petrol prices, poll tax marches, IRAQ war etc etc - get the press and government to sit up and take note!!!!!)

[gilf]

Problem is that its a free market, nobody is forcing people to buy at these high prices, I think we all know a correction is on the way what form that takes who's to say.

It think you have 2 types of BTL's the serious boys and the recent one or two property types, its the later thats causing the problems, not that I wish harm on anybody but we can console ourselves that the second type will be the worst effected in any serious down turn.

Maybe if there is a crash the country will learn a lesson but of course we all have short memories in this country when it comes to the property market.

[Time to raise the rents.]

In case anyone wonders I am a 40 + homeowner who has no particular interest in whether the market goes up or down. I have made over £150,000 profit on my house in 10 years (bought in the last crash 1992) but I don't care how much my house is worth as I will still have to pay more to move up the ladder. What is happening with house prices is absolutley scandalous, just greedy estate agents , banks etc mostly, they are the only ones that gain, but ironically their own kids won't be able to buy homes so they are all shooting themselves in the foot!!!

I am praying for a crash and although I could have easily become a BUY TO LET LANDLORD myself I honestly could not rob young people blind the way they are doing, it is obcene and the government should do something about it before there is a riot or something, if I were a young First time buyer I would be organising marches in London (similar to the protest against petrol prices, poll tax marches, IRAQ war etc etc - get the press and government to sit up and take note!!!!!)

How on the same forum can we have people saying how great it is that rent is historically low (and that maint is covered by the owner etc), yet others claiming landlords are robbing people blind?

Renters pay for what they get, there's no robbery in that, none whatsoever. And the fact is that they now have a choice and cango elsewhere if they don't like what they're getting. I'd say that is an efficient market at work!

[GAL BEAR]

Yes, but as I see it this is what has helped put the price of houses out of the reach of most young people. if buy to let landlords had not bought up all the properties young people would not need to rent (or only for short term) and could afford to buy a home of their own. Some renting properties should be available but in the last couple of years people have just got greedy., there should be a limit on how many one person can buy and they should have to pay some extra tax on them to make it more unattrative.

I only had to rent for a couple years before i bought i house, it was just accepted that you could buy whenever you wanted as long as you saved up a small deposit I have friends who's children are in the ir 30's and still renting or worse living at home with parents - some even have kids, it has got totally out of hand. I regularly have arguments at work with people who gleefully tell me how their property has gone up £100,000 in the last 2 yrs and then tell me they have 3 kids aged between 25 - 35 still living at home , its ludicrous.

Around Christmas time a new development of about 30 new flats went up near me, i enquired on behalf of a young girl at work and was staggered when the Salres agent told me that nearly he whole lot was bought by one BUY TO LET INVESTOR. It should not be allowed, he helped stop many young couples owning their first home.

[Time to raise the rents.]

There is an extra tax making it unattractive (to sell that is), it's CGT.

BTL is supplying a demand that exists as in any decent economy, there's nothing immoral about it.

[Muppet]

I have made over £150,000 profit on my house in 10 years

You mean you've actually sold your house and pocketed/invested/banked that money then?

If not, you've made nothing. Your house has risen in percieved value by that much, but that's all.

I'm sorry but people like you who seem happy to quote how much 'money they've made' out of the last crash really piss me off. Many many people were forced out on the street and lost everything they had through the last crash, I myslef was lucky and managed to ride it out.

You're coming across as very gloating in your post, please don't. Whilst we (nearly) all want a reduction in house prices here, I, and I'm sure many others, would not want to see a repeat of the misery that was endured by thousands who got caught out in the last crash. Even BTL'rs

[BBB]

GAL BEAR..........i actually prefer housing benefit tenants to working people.(from abusiness point of view) there isnt enough council houses to go round. where do you propose these people would live if the likes of my self didnt give them a roof over their heads? dont get me wrong i'm not making myself out to be a 'new age' charity or anything, but a by product of my business is i provide a very valuable service to these needy people, who for many reasons, will probably never , ever own a house, regardless of whether the market go's up, down or sideways.

we are not all in it to rip off the young. (and i suspect very few are)

regards BBB

[RJG18]

TTRTR:>"BTL is supplying a demand that exists as in any decent economy, there's nothing immoral about it. "

I don't accept that, simply on the basis that property is not and open or free market, hence BTL activity can cause severe hardships. In an open market if a products price become over inflated beyond it's fundamental value, another supplier will enter the market with an equivilent product at a lower price, undercutting the overpriced suppler, and taking away their market share. This market economics ensures that prices of things remain affordable. This cannot happen with property, prices can go up and up and up on speculation (with no-one able, or willing, to enter the market and undercut them), before crashing and spiralling all the way back down again.

Housing is essential. Image if this happen with other essential supplies, bread? water?

If waelthier people bought up all the bread supplies, restricting them from poorer people and artificially pushing the price up, making huge profits, and using these huge profits to continue to buy bread at ever higher prices, to charge the rest of the population ever more for it, until only the very wealthiest could afford to buy bread, and there was no demand left in the market, then the whole lot came crashing back down. You couldn't argue that this scenario was "supplying a demand", and we wouldn't accept it. So why accept it as "supplying a demand" with property.

"So let them eat cake."

(and before anyone points out that bread is not comparable to property, and you cannot invesnt in it as it is in now way a persistant asset.... I am aware of this, it's just painting an example).

[RJG18]

BBB>"i actually prefer housing benefit tenants to working people."

But BBB, most local authorities (and all of them by the end of this year I believe) set a mximum cap on the amount of housing benefit they will pay towards the rental of a property. They will not pay an unemployed person £700pcm to rent a £35,000 property. In an area like, for example Middlesborough, the local authority will pay housing benefit of around £250-300 a month to a tenent to rent a £35k flat or terrace. Where do/are your unemployed tenents find/going to find the extra £400-500 a month they need to pay you out of their own pockets to make up the difference if they unemployed.

I'm assuming you must be operating in authority areas where housing benefit is currently less capped. You might be in for a shock when the new housing act is introduced later this year and the current patchy limits on housing benefit of nationally more standardised. If you feel something moving beneif your feet, looking down, it might be a rug subjected to some pulling....

[Time to raise the rents.]

"(and before anyone points out that bread is not comparable to property, and you cannot invesnt in it as it is in now way a persistant asset.... I am aware of this, it's just painting an example). "

And it's a very poor example at that.

BTL landlords are creating a supply of rental properties and tenants now enjoy the ability to choose where they live (when renting) and can generally afford the rent which is essentially a good thing. Compared to the terrible place I rented when I arrived in the UK, tenants now enjoy comparative luxury. Is that such a bad thing?

The supply of properties to purchase that is eaten up by BTL is another issue.

[BBB]

rjg........

the £700 pcm was for 2 properties (pair of flats). i wish it was £700 pcm for one , but hey even i cant find ''that'' property. so my example was 35k prop £350 pcm. tenant will get approx £300 of local authority , and 'top' the rest up themselves.

soz, still on ''terra firma''

regards BBB.

[BBB]

sorry, i did'nt quite grasp that

[RJG18]

BBB>

"the £700 pcm was for 2 properties (pair of flats). i wish it was £700 pcm for one , but hey even i cant find ''that'' property. so my example was 35k prop £350 pcm. tenant will get approx £300 of local authority , and 'top' the rest up themselves."

Ok, I'll accept that, although I still think it's a bit odd that you started telling us about your £70k property with £700pcm rent, and then only revealled you were talking about two properties as if they were one when pushed on it.

However, your unemployed tenent is having to "top-up" his housing benefit rent in order for you to even make aprofit on a £35,000 property. In many places (like South East) the equivilent LA properties are currently selling for over £140,000.

On such a property a typical mortgage (Interest Only) would be £750-£850 per month, and over £1000 for capital repayment. You're going to need to rent this property for over £1000pcm to make a real profit. If the LA are paying £300-400 in housing benefit, then is the unemployed tenent going to be able to top up the rest of the rent to the tune of £600-700 a month out of their own pocket?

Or is it possible that (in the highest priced area) the prices of these properties at the "least desirable" end of the spectrum are goung to need to fall by 70% to be able to retain tenent demand? I'm not suggesting anything, just working with the numbers as they stand.

[GAL BEAR]

MUPPET, I think you missed my point, i was saying that the money i have "made" out of the house means nothing to me, if my house dropped in value to what i paid for it I would be very pleased as it would mean that others could afford to buy!!

As I said earlier I am always arguing with people at work and showing them newspaper clippings to prove to them that house prices are dropping, I am the only person in my office that thinks like this.

I do feel sorry for people who lost their homes in the last recession, but i think this house crash will be 10 times worse as everyone is in so much debt, but we need it to bring some normality back to the housing market and if my house ends up being less than I paid for it so be it!! It will be a small price to pay.

And KIRSTY will be out of work so that will make me feel better.