Tax Take From City Firms Falls By Half

[interestrateripoff]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2009/ju...-tax-take-falls

The tax contribution from City firms has plunged by half over the past two years, following multibillion-pound losses suffered by banks in the credit crunch.

City firms contributed £32.5bn to the tax coffers in the year to March 31, 2009, it emerged today – less than half the £67.8bn they brought in two years earlier.

The amount generated this year is still enough to pay for the entire public security budget – including police, fire brigade, law courts and prisons – or a sizeable chunk of the £79.9bn a year spent on education.

The government is to disclose the latest contribution from City firms in a response to a parliamentary question from Malcolm Pearson in the House of Lords. Pearson, a member of the UK Independence Party, raised the question to highlight the contribution of Britain's financial services to the economy, he told the Guardian.

City employees have been dismayed by the recent increase in the top rate of personal income tax and by public scrutiny of their bonuses. However, hedge funds and private equity firms have found support from the government and the City of London in their attempts to soften a planned European Union directive that would have imposed tougher regulation. Lord Myners, the City minister, has lobbied in Brussels to change the directive that could have made it more difficult for London to retain its role as the European centre for buyout and hedge funds.

"The taxes that hedge funds pay are very significant – the government needs to have a closer look in terms of the contribution that hedge funds make to the UK," said Raymond O'Neill, a founding member of Kinetic Partners, a hedge fund advisory firm.

Over the past year, his firm has advised numerous hedge funds on relocation, mostly to Switzerland, he said. He added there were "considerable" numbers of other funds looking at the question.

At the peak of the market, in 2007, City firms contributed about 13.9% of the total UK tax take, according to a report by PricewaterhouseCoopers and the City of London Corporation, released in February this year. The contribution plunged to 7.5% in 2009, according to Guardian calculations.

The City employed 324,000 people in 2008, some 29,000 less than the previous year, according to the City of London.

No wonder the govt is panicking the fantasy money generated by City based on debt expansion was clearly very profitable, but ultimately not sustainable.

I suspect this is why the govt is trying everything it can to ramp up lending again and get this fantasy money tax take back from the city.

That's one big fall in taxes that either need making up elsewhere or services need to be cut.

[Rachman]

Apparently, we don't need the City, it's full of disingenuous liars, cheats and probably nonces.

We'll ignore how it supports a lot of 'worthy' things in society...... because we quite like the idea of others who earned more than us 'suffering'.

[cue lots of people wishing me to die or at least attempt to kill myself, cue people saying, "no, it's not that, it's that we own them" or "no, they got us into this mess"]

but in simple terms, this government (and others) needs the tax revenues from the City, whether we can make the way the City operates more 'acceptable and ethical' is a different question, but we most definitely need the money it generates, if only to feed our 'Untermensch'.

[interestrateripoff]

but in simple terms, this government (and others) needs the tax revenues from the City, whether we can make the way the City operates more 'acceptable and ethical' is a different question, but we most definitely need the money it generates, if only to feed our 'Untermensch'.

By creating mass debt?

[@contradevian]

but in simple terms, this government (and others) needs the tax revenues from the City, whether we can make the way the City operates more 'acceptable and ethical' is a different question, but we most definitely need the money it generates, if only to feed our 'Untermensch'.

We need the tax revenues of the City, providing the City is serving the needs of industry and commerce (as originally intended) rather than feeding off it.

Looking at some of the other threads I'm not sure if some of the City institutions have any point any more given the dependence on speculation, and inserting themselves pointlessly into "trades" that rip everyone else off

[Guest X-QUORK]

but in simple terms, this government (and others) needs the tax revenues from the City, whether we can make the way the City operates more 'acceptable and ethical' is a different question, but we most definitely need the money it generates, if only to feed our 'Untermensch'.

You see, it's this sort of 'tude that causes so much hatred of the City. Or was it a stab at irony?

[interestrateripoff]

Also why is a high cost economy in everyone's interest?

What we need is a low cost flexible economy, but the City only operates on bigger and bigger figures to prove what a success it is.

[Rachman]

You see, it's this sort of 'tude that causes so much hatred of the City. Or was it a stab at irony?

you know full well it was sarcasm at least, meaning our social detritus, the unworking, never worked underclass who cause 90% of our crime, who fill up our hospitals with obese people and heavy smokers and alcoholics, the junkies, those who choose not to work but choose to breed, who swallow up a third or so of the total tax take of this country.

The phrase has horrific connotations, I understand that, but they really are a total and complete underclass to our society, in a way that the people to whom the word was first applied clearly were not.

[Bloo Loo]

Apparently, we don't need the City, it's full of disingenuous liars, cheats and probably nonces.

We'll ignore how it supports a lot of 'worthy' things in society...... because we quite like the idea of others who earned more than us 'suffering'.

[cue lots of people wishing me to die or at least attempt to kill myself, cue people saying, "no, it's not that, it's that we own them" or "no, they got us into this mess"]

but in simple terms, this government (and others) needs the tax revenues from the City, whether we can make the way the City operates more 'acceptable and ethical' is a different question, but we most definitely need the money it generates, if only to feed our 'Untermensch'.

stupid post.

course the government needs money.

pity the city didnt really make any.

they provided 32.5bn in tax but took twice that in bailouts, and 4 times that in QE.

[Minos]

Apparently, we don't need the City, it's full of disingenuous liars, cheats and probably nonces.

We'll ignore how it supports a lot of 'worthy' things in society...... because we quite like the idea of others who earned more than us 'suffering'.

[cue lots of people wishing me to die or at least attempt to kill myself, cue people saying, "no, it's not that, it's that we own them" or "no, they got us into this mess"]

but in simple terms, this government (and others) needs the tax revenues from the City, whether we can make the way the City operates more 'acceptable and ethical' is a different question, but we most definitely need the money it generates, if only to feed our 'Untermensch'.

If you do decide to kill yourself, can it be something spectacular please so we know it's you?

[Rachman]

stupid post.

course the government needs money.

pity the city didnt really make any.

they provided 32.5bn in tax but took twice that in bailouts, and 4 times that in QE.

What real cash has been ploughed in, in reality, the QE has been used to fund the government issuing debt for its own borrowings and the rest of it (at 12%) has mostly been forced onto bank balance sheets.

A guarantee or underwriting costs nothing till it's called upon.

There is a massive difference between actually putting money in and what the government has done. And the government ignores that it's been collecting and spending 40% plus of what was 'spuriously' made and spending it on misguided social projects and electorate jerrymandering.

[Guest X-QUORK]

you know full well it was sarcasm at least, meaning our social detritus, the unworking, never worked underclass who cause 90% of our crime, who fill up our hospitals with obese people and heavy smokers and alcoholics, the junkies, those who choose not to work but choose to breed, who swallow up a third or so of the total tax take of this country.

The irony of course is that the City has largley been responsible for adding huge numbers of people to the above group. Unemployed blue collar workers might well turn to the bottle in what they see as a hopeless world, where hard work is rewarded with a P45 and directions to the Job Centre Plus.

Funny old world.

[Minos]

The irony of course is that the City has largley been responsible for adding huge numbers of people to the above group. Unemployed blue collar workers might well turn to the bottle in what they see as a hopeless world, where hard work is rewarded with a P45 and directions to the Job Centre Plus.

Funny old world.

Socialist filth.

[Guest X-QUORK]

Socialist filth.

Capitalist filth.

[Rachman]

The irony of course is that the City has largley been responsible for adding huge numbers of people to the above group. Unemployed blue collar workers might well turn to the bottle in what they see as a hopeless world, where hard work is rewarded with a P45 and directions to the Job Centre Plus.

Funny old world.

you're joking there right ?

The social safety net is precisely for the people that get laid off. It's the never had a job, the people who think it's good to be on "Streetcrime UK" that I am on about, the City has haad nothing to do with them being on the dole, they could easily have had jobs in the last decade, but they didn't - they just got a bad back/depression/asthma and lived off us.

People lose jobs, white and blue collar, the difference is the people who then find another one - and we have millions of people who have never worked or refuse to support themselves - as it cuts their benefits - you can have a go at the City all you want (and even claim it's because of the City these people's ambitions are so low), but I'd suspect most of the laid off City workers (and other decent people) will be getting another job and supporting themselves - the underclass don't and never will.

[lowrentyieldmakessense(honest!)]

and the city produces what of value exactly

bankers make profit someone else makes a loss - usually the poorest

[fluffy666]

Apparently, we don't need the City, it's full of disingenuous liars, cheats and probably nonces.

We'll ignore how it supports a lot of 'worthy' things in society...... because we quite like the idea of others who earned more than us 'suffering'.

[cue lots of people wishing me to die or at least attempt to kill myself, cue people saying, "no, it's not that, it's that we own them" or "no, they got us into this mess"]

but in simple terms, this government (and others) needs the tax revenues from the City, whether we can make the way the City operates more 'acceptable and ethical' is a different question, but we most definitely need the money it generates, if only to feed our 'Untermensch'.

We need the tax revenues from the city so that we can afford to bail the city out?

[Guest X-QUORK]

but I'd suspect most of the laid off City workers (and other decent people) will be getting another job and supporting themselves - the underclass don't and never will.

You do see that you're just as bigoted about the bottom of society as those you accuse of blind hatred for the City?

[pablopatito]

I had a big row with my mate whose a City banker. His argument was that the City is the UK economy, nothing else matters, and therefore we should do everything we can to save it. As someone who has spent his whole life working for a small British manufacturing firms I found his argument pretty offensive. But a figure of 13.9% means that the rest of the economy contributes a whopping 86.1%, right?

There is all this talk of preventing city firms moving to Switzerland and Dubai, but no-one seems to give a crap about manufacturing firms moving to China and Eastern Europe. When heavy regulation and taxation makes it cost effective to move a manufacturing plant to Turkey its called free market capitalism, when proposed heavy regulation and taxation makes it cost effective to move a bank to Switzerland its called a left-wing disaster. Banks are important, but I just don't understand why politicians seem to think they're more important that other British industries.

[Rachman]

You do see that you're just as bigoted about the bottom of society as those you accuse of blind hatred for the City?

absolutely, but am I as wrong as others are about the City ?

Are you suggesting it's 'right' that we have our inner cities full of single mothers and feral kids, who are totally supported by the State, who burgle us, who cause the antisocial behaviour, who do fill up the hospitals with unnecessary cases, who wuite frankly cost us an absolute fortune for no benefit to the country and are growing in number. Please tell me, what good do they do ? (and I know the obvious comeback to that....).

[xux42]

You do see that you're just as bigoted about the bottom of society as those you accuse of blind hatred for the City?

How has scum managed to form at the top and the bottom of British society.

I don't want my family to be the filling in a scum sandwich.

Where is the exit? I want to leave.

[Guest X-QUORK]

Are you suggesting it's 'right' that we have our inner cities full of single mothers and feral kids, who are totally supported by the State, who burgle us, who cause the antisocial behaviour, who do fill up the hospitals with unnecessary cases, who wuite frankly cost us an absolute fortune for no benefit to the country and are growing in number. Please tell me, what good do they do ? (and I know the obvious comeback to that....).

I don't see a serial welfare abuser as any worse than those who created and sold toxic debt "packages". Both are a drain on the rest of us.

[Minos]

I don't see a serial welfare abuser as any worse than those who created and sold toxic debt "packages". Both are a drain on the rest of us.

What would you have done with them?

[Guest X-QUORK]

What would you have done with them?

Who?

[Minos]

Who?

Single mothers with feral kids, who are totally supported by the State, who burgle us, who cause the antisocial behaviour, who do fill up the hospitals with unnecessary cases, who quite frankly cost us an absolute fortune for no benefit to the country and are growing in number.

[Guest X-QUORK]

Single mothers with feral kids, who are totally supported by the State, who burgle us, who cause the antisocial behaviour, who do fill up the hospitals with unnecessary cases, who quite frankly cost us an absolute fortune for no benefit to the country and are growing in number.

I thought this thread was about the City?

I don't claim to have the answers to solve the problems of social deprivation, but I'm fairly sure that destroying blue collar jobs won't be helping.

What's your solution Minos? Does it involve a long train ride in cattle trucks and working on a camp where "Arbeit macht frei"?