Mr Yogi

I don't understand all the outrage that such stories generate. There is simply no moral imperative to repay a bank loan. When the bank lends the money it makes a calculation of the likelihood of the borrower defaulting and charges a rate of interest accordingly. Default is therefore built into the bank's business model. Most people pay their loans off in accordance with the agreement they have with the bank. Their reward is further availability of credit in ever increasing sums. Some people, through changes in circumstances, find themselves unable to maintain their repayments. Others, like our friend in the article, actively choose not to repay the debt and go bankrupt instead. Their 'punishment' is that further credit will not be available to them. Their choice however, is just as valid as the choice to keep up repayments. The bank doesn't really care either way - they have hedged their bets anyway. The decision whether or not to repay a bank loan is not a moral one - it is purely business.

But it is! The only debts not wiped out by bankruptcy are student loans and court fines. Everything else disappears - including any debts owed to a mortgage company following repossession. Get your facts straight!

But 99% of all the financial irresponsibility over the last decade has been perpetrated by the banks and by governments... ... the odd bit of silliness by a private citizen is totally irrelevent in the bigger picture.

They pay their mortgage off and live in their (nearly) free house feeling rather smug, I guess... I remember 25% inflation in the 1970s making big mortgages a rather good idea. I still think deflation is more likely over the coming years, however.

Bollock$! 150 hotel owners might be under threat but the hotels will still be there after the owners have gone bust. New owners will buy them up for peanuts from the liquidators, and because they didn't overpay for them they will have a good chance of turning a profit. Why does a hotel need to borrow its working capital anyway? They presumably buy their supplies on credit yet get paid by guests on the nail. Surely cash-flow should be positive. The suspicion has got to be that they are insolvent businesses and deserve to fail.

Ken, have you not thought about going self-employed and targetting the small business sector. With your Chinese connections and the number of Chinese businesses in the Manchester/Liverpool area I would have thought there was a definite opportunity. Most small businessmen and self-employed tradesmen have had terrible experiences with accountants. High Street firms typically charge premium rates yet give the work to the most junior staff while the partners concentrate on 'more important' clients. A guy wotking from home with minimal overheads can give a far better level of personal service at a fraction of the cost and will find himself in perpetual demand. My accountant works this way, has over 90 clients, no overheads other than transport, and must earn a minimum of £100k a year. And yes, he's in the Manchester area. 'Getting a job' is rarely the best way of making a living. Invent your own!

Or the poisoned steak the new neighbour tossed over the fence...

An important point. With every passing year, the proportion of votors who would benefit from lower house prices increases. Before long they will form the majority. I'm not just talking about potential first-time buyers; many middle-aged mortgage free parents like myself would also like to see lower prices so that our kids have the same opportunities that we did. The value of our own house is an irrelevence to us personally as we do not plan on ever selling it. The historic received wisdom that HPI = Votes is about to be reversed. I'm sure that the politicians have done the maths. Could it be that a HPC over the next few years could actually be a vote winner for the ConDems?

Not really. It is the liquidator who will have the job of disposing of the assets - and by definition he will only achieve a 'forced sale value' for them.

Well if that's true - and it probably is - then it hasn't even started round here yet!

Quite agree, Geoff. Where were all these middle class bleaters in the early 80's when true hardship was unloaded on the working class, pretty well destroying it as a recognisable entity? Now we just have 'Chav Dole Scum' and 'Tradesmen'. Perhaps because of our lack of reliance on financial services, most people up here in the north west have been almost totally unaffected by the events of the last few years. I make bespoke furniture and fancy kitchens for largely middle-class clients, and I have never been busier - I'm booked solid into next year. What amazes me is the number of relatively young couples in up and coming areas like Chorlton and Whalley Range planning families and spending tens of thousands on home improvements with money they've quite clearly saved up rather than borrowed. Happy days... Methinks it's a London problem. Fook 'em!

Apologies if this has been posted before. Young Paddy bought a donkey from a farmer for £100. The farmer agreed to deliver the donkey the next day.. The next day he drove up and said, 'Sorry son, but I have some bad news. The donkey's died.' Paddy replied, 'Well then just give me my money back.' The farmer said, 'Can't do that. I've already spent it.' Paddy said, 'OK, then, just bring me the dead donkey.' The farmer asked, 'What are you going to do with him?' Paddy said, 'I'm going to raffle him off.' The farmer said, 'You can't raffle a dead donkey!' Paddy said, 'Sure I can. Watch me.. I just won't tell anybody he's dead.' A month later, the farmer met up with Paddy and asked, 'What happened with that dead donkey?' Paddy said, 'I raffled him off. I sold 500 tickets at two pounds a piece and made a profit of £898' The farmer said, 'Didn't anyone complain?' Paddy said, 'Just the guy who won. So I gave him his two pounds back.'

I though the whole point was that the taxpayer was already picking up the bill, lining the pockets of landlords in the process. The more private landlords who chuck in their cards and sell to owner-occupiers the better. Housing associations seem to be able to build affordable rented housing reasonably efficiently. Surely every possible encouragement - both financial and political - should be given to housing associations to build more homes for rent. This would give employment in the construction sector a much-needed boost, too.

If the problems are caused by both partners losing their jobs what would you call it? 99% of people make financial planning decisions on the assumption that their future income stream is secure. Take the income away and everybody would be in the sh1t - apart from a peculiarly smug type of poster you only seem to find on HPC who has no idea about how most people are forced to juggle their finances. The banks have quite deliberately engineered a system whereby most people operate at the limits of their incomes - or in many cases beyond. They can have no complaint if an increasing number of people topple over the edge. It's the banks wot dunnit!

http://www.independent.co.uk/money/mortgages/repossessions-likely-to-rise-as-options-run-out-for-struggling-homeowners-2034686.html http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/analysis-and-features/was-the-last-fall-in-house-prices-just-a-warning-2034677.html Still too bullish IMO though. Why on earth would anyone expect house prices to reach 2007 levels in real terms again in our lifetimes? In the 90s crash, it took ten years for prices to recover in nominal terms. I expect it to take longer this time.

I pick this one out as it more typical of the position anyone can get into through misfortune and a slight lack of organisation. Very different to the oft quoted anecdotes of chavs running up massive store card debts or fading celebs not being able to pay the tax bill from their 15 minutes of fame. Such humdrum stories are also a lot more common. The 'advice' to go into an IVA is nearly always appalling advice, inevitably given by a 'debt counselling' service who make their profits from managing such schemes. The creditors see precious little after fees have been deducted anyway. Bankruptcy is intended precisely for people in Gail's position above. She cannot hope ever to pay off her debts while maintaining any sort of life for her young family. She should put her kids first, go bust, and enjoy life again. She's probably in negative equity so she'll get to keep the house anyway...

I remember when self-cert mortgages first appeared in the 1980s. They were intended for self-employed tradesmen, small business owners and the like who would typically have accounts showing an income of say £15k, but an actual income of double that - with the second half of it being totally tax-free! The banks all knew that the self-employed could afford far bigger mortgages than their declared incomes suggested, and so introduced self-certification in order to increase business. The lack of action by the tax authorities suggests that they chose to turn a blind eye to it too. The problems only really started a decade later when these mortgages were pushed by corrupt brokers onto people on PAYE who had no hidden income at all! Edited to add... The really clever tradesmen I know meanwhile, never fell for the self-cert scam and continue to live in the modest-looking 3-bed semi they have owned for 20 years. Behind the facade though, it has been extended and improved out of recognition to the highest specs by mates in the trade in exchange for doing work for them. No cash ever changes hands. Modest family holidays are booked to the Med on credit cards. Once there however, the hotel is never visited and our friend and his family stay at their own villa with pool bought for cash...

I'm not sure that they actually have 'streets' in Alderley Edge! You can't blame the footballers for getting paid such ridiculously large sums of money. It's the clubs and their mug fans who have got us to this state of affairs. I know Wes Brown's old form teacher from Burnage High School. Memorable for being the only black kid anyone had ever seen with naturally bright ginger hair!

Not while the market was booming, they didn't! That some have now introduced such policies speaks volumes about their confidence in making sales in the current constipated market. Syrup of figs is needed and estate agents are the guys who will administer it. Their very survival is at stake.

Once estate agents cotton on to the idea that lower prices = more sales = survival then they will be the main driver of lower asking prices. I remember in the early 90's when estate agents would turn down instructions if they felt that the vendor was being unrealistic in their expectations. EAs need quick turnover - not properties sitting on their books for months costing money to market but bringing nothing in. 1% of something is a lot more than 1% of fook all!

The Cashminder account from the Co-op gives you a Visa card and full internet banking but does not allow you to go overdrawn - even by a penny. It's completely free, too.

The idea of having £400 spare at the end of each month would be greeted by most of the population with incredulity. I doubt if most households have a tenth of that.

The demographic who would be wiped out by a HPC and higher interest rates is relatively small - BTLers and anyone who has bought at high LTV in the last five years (or MEWed). Maybe 3 million out of an adult population of 35 million. Collateral damage...

I repeat, it is estate agents who will drive down asking prices. Timewasters like you describe will find it impossible to find an agent willing to market their property at an unrealistic price. Competition between agents will be for sales at almost any price; not for instructions. Us old-timers saw all this happen in the early 90s.

Expect to see more of this. I bought the house I was renting in 1994 off my desperate landlord. He'd paid over £100k in 1989 but was glad to get shut of it for the value of the outstanding mortgage - £62k - simply to avoid bankruptcy. How many landlords are in just such a situation today?