Confounded

Pretty good illustration as to why prices have not continued to fall.

Who will buy this property? It can not be done without correcting and then over correcting the price of property probably resulting in them getting 50% or less of the total they were expecting.. It is a bit like the numpties who say we have made a profit on the bank shares....

Your made up version or your version?

Not sure if you can remember but during the peak of the first phase of the financial crisis there was an RBS whistle blower. He claimed to have evidence that linked Brown to the reckless lending, the whistle blower very quickly disappeared from media attention. That was enough for me to conclude that Brown had pressurised the banks to lend recklessly in the final stages of the bubble and it also explained why the senior bankers at the helm showed little to know remorse for the mess we are in.

I am not an expert on the freedom of informations act but is it possible to gain access to the raw data for house prices now we own Lloyds? Would love to interrogate the raw data

Wow not on a single front page, not sure what to say..... http://www.thepaperboy.com/uk/

Wow not on a single front page, not sure what to say..... http://www.thepaperboy.com/uk/

Some great charts appearing today for some reason :-)

A good alternative graph.

Halifax September -3.6% I hold my hands up as someone who after a few strange readings on the VI indexes, having seen evidence of a falling market in my watch areas since May, that they must be trying to paint the appearance of stagnation with a few falls being reported and a then a few small rises. I withdraw all previous comments on the stats, they are not manipulated but are just a very poor reflection of the market as a whole due to regional variations and low volumes, which has always been the most sane argument put forward on this board. No longer welcome to the fear phase, we are in it.

Oops lets hope the Newspapers are as selected with their quotes as I was. A genuine error on my part but either way 3.6% is incredible.

From the report! "September's monthly 3.6% fall is the beginning of a sustained period of declining house prices." I am speechless.

It is only time before Tesco comes out with their version. http://www.zerohedge.com/article/costco-now-apocalypse-provisioning-business#comment-626590 Full package includes: The THRIVE 1 Year Food Supply comes complete with 84 #10 (gallon size) cans of grains, fruits, veggies, protein & beans, dairy, and baking essentials. With over 5,000 servings and many foods with a shelf life of up to 25 years, this package will give you variety, nutrition, and peace of mind. * 12 month food supply for 1 Person * 6 month food supply for 2 People * 3 month food supply for 4 People * Shipment arrives in 14 separate boxes * Grains and rice have a shelf life of up to 30 years * Freeze-dried foods have a shelf life of up to 25 years * Dehydrated foods have a shelf life of up to 15 years * Simple rehydration instructions, recipes, and helpful tips are included on each can * 5,011 total servings * 84 gallon-sized cans This THRIVE 1 Year 1 Person Food Storage package contains 84 #10 (gallon size) cans. See below for specific package contents. Grains * 8 Cans of Instant White Rice (48 servings per can) * 12 Cans of Hard White Winter Wheat (44 servings per can) * 3 Cans of 6 Grain Pancake Mix (50 servings per can) * 2 Cans of Elbow Macaroni (45 servings per can) Vegetables * 6 Cans of Dehydrated Potato Chunks (42 servings per can) * 1 Can of Freeze-Dried Sweet Corn (46 servings per can) * 1 Can of Freeze-Dried Green Peas (41 servings per can) * 1 Cans of Dehydrated Chopped Onions (45 servings per can) * 1 Can of Freeze-Dried Mushroom Pieces (48 servings per can) * 1 Can of Freeze-Dried Broccoli (47 servings per can) Fruits * 2 Cans of Organic Apple Slices (48 servings per can) * 2 Cans of Freeze-Dried Strawberries (45 servings per can) * 1 Can of Freeze-Dried Blueberries (50 servings per can) * 1 Can of Freeze-Dried Blackberries (49 servings per can) * 2 Cans of Freeze-Dried Raspberries (48 servings per can) Dairy * 6 Cans of Powdered Milk (43 servings per can) * 3 Cans of Chocolate Drink Mix (48 servings per can) Proteins/Beans The taste and texture of TVP (Textured Vegetable Protein) is consistent with real meat, making it a great addition to vegetarian diets * 3 Cans of Bacon TVP (47 servings per can) * 3 Cans of Beef TVP (44 servings per can) * 3 Cans of Chicken TVP (45 servings per can) * 2 Cans of Taco TVP (42 servings per can) * 6 Cans of Pinto Beans (49 servings per can) * 1 Can of Black Beans (49 servings per can) * 2 Cans of Lima Beans (49 servings per can) * 3 Cans of Lentils (52 servings per can) * 6 Cans of Whole Eggs (236 servings per can) Cooking Basics * 2 Cans of White Sugar (46 servings per can)

Enough liquidity for what? It will not generate REAL growth and with the resource shortages already rearing its head as people buy commodities to avoid this QE we will be in a hyper inflationary environment. Also how will the fraud and corruption be cleansed from the system if it is allowed to perpetuate? The best way to deal with a depression is to have one.

20% is a nice amount to quote, correction happened nothing to see here. Very few houses transacted at this level so very little was lost by the banking system in the first phase. The housing metrics, like the stock market, are nothing more than monetary tools now. They are being used to improve confidence and prevent the 60 year debt bubble from exploding. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.zerohedge.com/article/those-who-blindly-follow-housing-prices-without-taking-other-metrics-consideration-are-missi Those Who Blindly Follow Housing Prices Without Taking Other Metrics Into Consideration Are Missing the Housing Depression of the New Millennium. As illustrated in the post “Why the Case Shiller Index, Although Showing Another Downturn Coming, is Overly Optimistic and Quite Misleading!“, many mainstream media outlets and investors (retail, institutional and professional included) have become to reliant on the easy to quote, easy to publish and convenient to manipulate Case Shiller home price index. While an econometric marvel, it is not perfect. As a matter of fact, the imperfections that it does have happen to materially and significantly minimize the influence of the factors which actually contribute greatly to the current housing malaise. This, in and of itself, is significant enough of a reason for interested parties to look past the Case Shiller index in to other metrics that can help give a more accurate picture of what is actually happening on the ground. Read more on the above link

That is why they need to print good numbers. They want to hold us in stagnation if possible. I personally feel the market will still fall even if they report rising "stats". It worked in 09 when they formed a false bottom and it flushed out the last of the bubble money cash. I now know noone who is sitting on cash waiting for lower prices, the last of my friends went all in last month....

Hard to know, I would always consider my wage growth relative to inflation but I suspect the reason we have had static or declining real wages for the last 30 years show most people focus on the nominal figure similar to houses.

Me too, on this forum in 07 I argued that the VI indexes were unlikely to be allowed to add more harm to the market than the inevitable economic collapse coming. So far after the "correction" we have seen the indexes leading the market rather than the market creating the indices. I'e the rises seen in the indexes late 08 early 09 where there was lots of negative anecdotal/evidence was used to create the bounce we saw later on in 09. All the areas I look at (up and down the country) the rises did not seem to materialise until the middle of the summer of 09 rather than winter spring 09 as suggested by the VI data. Once people got wind of the rises it seemed to happen very strongly and fast in the real market with some areas I watch showing a rise to near peak again. These strong fast rises were not reflected in data. We are in a period where it appears the VI's are trying to convince people we are in stagnation, a few months up a few months down as shown by the recent rises when the anecdotes are coming in more negative than the 08 period. My Local area has been falling since May this year. My view is the "stats" are being used to form public opinion about the housing market rather than reflect what the housing market is doing. If we get a QonQ falls of 6+ % going forward I will eat my words. It is similar to how the US is using the stock markets to form the opinion all is well and the recovery is still good with the economy.

I think this is the point of the crash that comes at the end of a credit expansion cycle, and I think this is the stance of the uber bear. The belief is (that I still share atm) is we are at the end of a huge credit cycle. So much money has been created in the preceding years that it is chasing real yields into negative territory. We will stay in this trap until the imbalances are addressed, either 10-20 years of Japanese style grinding collapse, if lucky, or if money is destroyed (the natural and essential part of any bust) over 5 years in a dramatic crash. It looks like we are heading for the former but because I am young I would prefer the later. In either scenario I can see tough times ahead for equities.

I like a lot of your thinking I just personally believe you are 10 years early. I see very little hatred of stocks. Most people I know still trade them. When I last worked in an office it was Autumn 08 and people were a little confused but they were certain stocks always recover. I pointed out that the a Japanese investor would beg to differ but the belief is the West can perpetually inflate/"grow". Some made good gains on bank shares (some did not). The belief by the sheeple, in my opinion, is still unshaken and they have no clue how bad this is going to get.