iamnumerate

Population has not done the same because I do not believe that immigration is the only factor. Saying it is not a factor is IMHO as crazy as saying it is the only factor. However don't forget only a small percentage of of houses are on sale each year, therefore it is possible only a small increase in population can have an big effect. Ie if only one Englishman wanted to buy and there was only 1 house for sale and 2 immigrants wanted to buy it prices would rise a lot. That is an over simplification of course.

So you believe that if IR were cut and we had mass emmigration prices would still rise ?

That is ok. If it is not the supply of houses then why does the Government thinking building more would help ? If there is not a lack of supply why do people build more and more small houses ?

Ironic remark. I am sorry but that is not true. Of course credit is partially responsible for prices rising. However to say more demand does not affect prices is just crazy. So do you think that if 10 million people moved here prices would remain the same ? Or if 5 million emmigrated but IR went down prices would rise ? Opened minded I see.

Possibly they have less "passengers" to carry than workers here do. Just a guess ?

No but they should be able to afford to buy similar to what a single mum is given by the council - some chance. Or as nice as Captain's Hooks wife was given by Hammersmith and Fulham. Then again England should not experiment with new systems before playing in Croatia.

You are right of course we do have lots of homegrown parasites but why left foreign ones come here. Well I disagree we can deport foreign layabouts (black/white/etc) sadly we can not deport homegrown ones (black/white/etc). No one is blaming your parents. The problem is that a) we let scum in as well as people like your folks we are letting more people in than we have space for or rather more people than our infrasructure. IMHO the solutions are a)no immigrants can claim benefits for the first 2 or 3 years(like your folks) and no criminals are allowed to settle here and if immigrants break the law here - as most/all countries in the world do - they are deported. Are foreign criminals allowed to stay in your parent's home country ? That way you would a) reduce over crowding and reduce lots of racism. The only time my immigrant wife has suffered racism here was when she was with a benefit seeking friend (ie an immigrant who comes here for benefits) - may be a coincidence but I doubt it. Well done. I have done the same but nothing happened. I also informed on a bogus asylum seeker who gets a fortune likewise nothing happened.

Of course he will, he is a cleaner from Hong Kong who hates cleaning our streets and because of all the litter we drop hates us. That is why he unlike he wants the UK to be so crowded because it would make him feel at home. He also thinks our public services could cope with more people - another sign that he doesn't know much about this country.

I agree I don't want to be in the EU anyway I believe in democracy. I think that it is true. You could argue that it is not immigration that is the problem but NIMBYism and open immigration combined. As my sig suggests we can have large scale immigration if the Government takes on the NIMBIES of course that would be impossible as it would be political suicide. I might try that. However I believe the country is governed by the rich guilty so any plans to reduce benefits to single mums or anyone would be unlikely to get anywhere. Other people already have come with good plans eg provide single mums with hostels, point system for immigrants etc and got nowhere. http://www.thewelfarestatewerein.com/ It is unlikely I can get any where.

But actually that is a bad argument property prices in Japan are high because it is a very crowded country. What causes high prices is over crowding and easy credit. If immigration causes over crowding then immigration will cause high prices. However that does not mean that only countries with high immigration will have prices because over crowding could be for other reasons. Wuluf Really I think HPI is because of easy credit and immigration and therefore affordibility will only return to its normal level if a lot more houses are built or we have large amounts of emmigration. (I do think a crash is possible but not enough to make people wish they had not bought in 97 or even 2001). You disagree with me. Therefore when will HPI be over ? If in 3 years time prices are still at their current level in real terms or higher, would you agree with me that it is partially caused by immigration.

Same here. I remember when I started learning Spanish in 1997 it was really unusual to hear it on the tube etc. But by 2003 it was much more common. For example in 1997 there was only one free newspaper in Portuguese Leros by 2003 there were many others - Brasil.net, Paginas Brasilieras etc. Why were there so many more if the number of immigrants had remained stable ?

Your link shows as a proportion East Anglia has had the most EE immigrants. There was very large scale immigration between 2004. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/5274476.stm "Some 318,330 people were granted the right to settle in the UK in 2005 and 2004 from non-EU countries, according to Tuesday's figures." "many of the people granted right of settlement may have already been in the UK for at least four years" The number of people allowed to settle in 2003 was up 20% http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3593898.stm True HPI and immigration are not entirely linked. No one has said that they are although immigration is a cause of HPI. Personally I recently bought a house I paid the price I did assuming that there will be steady immigration which will keep house prices firm. If many people think like that this would mean HPI happens because people think immigration will increase house prices in the future.

Not really unless we are going to give every single mum in the world housing and benefits a one way ticket would solve that problem. Or do you think every single mum in the world should have the right to housing from the UK taxpayer ? They do everything else so well I am sure you are right. Fair enough I was talking about young people eg at McD compared to people who have never worked. It is meant to be a safety net not a safety sofa.

That is because there is no convincing argument. They are tribal people who follow what the Guardian says blindly.

A) There was significant amounts of immigration before 2002 but it was not Polish I live in London - prices were not stagnant from Jan 2004 - Aug 2005 where I live C) Who says most EE went to London ? D) We are talking about immigration as a whole not East Europeans. Why do people ignore all the other immigrants ? In my company we have had 6 immigrants working for us this year - not a single East European.

I agree with quite a bit of that. However I do not agree with :- "Determining which class someone belongs to is the difficult part. " If someone arrives and asks for housing as soon as they arrive then it is obvious their aim is to seek benefits. The solution for foreign citizens is to stop them recieving benefits for the first 2 years they are in the UK. An exception could for asylum seekers however we could say they can not get permanent settlement until they become a net contributor. Obviously for UK citizens it is harder. This would be too complicated. Yes and no sometimes people on benefits are better off than people working. Surely that can not be right ? I know people who would be better off if they were a single mum

For some of the looney left that means you are racist. Some people do not even believe that immigrants cause any problems whatsoever and it is invented by the daily mail. But I didn't say that. I just pointed out that there are problems with immigration and you seemed to think that I was talking about East Europeans I wasn't talking about them I was talking about immigration in general. Although I don't think it is fair that Eastern Europeans can apply for benefits according to what they earned before they came here.

Is there any evidence for this ? They could just be people too stupid to realise that coming to another country is difficult and won't give them a perfect life. Or people who have been told by friends "come here they gave me a house"- people told my wife that. Or people who want a British passport in case their country has problems (eg white South Africans) Or people who want to travel. Or people who have skills which are better here than in their country (eg people who want to teach their own language, plumbers - they are not so well paid everwhere -, footballers). Criminals on the run. Or a mixture of the above Do you think that if I was to go to Australia I should get paid more than here for the same job because :- "the ones who get off their arses and try to make a go of it in another country are likely to be rather more dynamic and fearless than most people. They're often more intelligent too." If you do believe that good bye and good luck.

Who said that ? I never did. I am glad that you agree that very few people are model citizens ? So do you agree that we should let immigrants in who are like you (and mine) colleagues ie people who are at least semi model citizens and not those who come for benefits. Or do you believe that such a thing is a tabloid invention ? BTW the reason why I know people who come for benefits and free English lessons is because I speak Spanish and Portuguese. The number of people who ask for asylum and go home on holiday as soon as they get it and a council house is amazing.

You have amazing mental powers and know all about me. Obviously it is a waste of time talking to someone with ESP or thinks he has. Do your mental powers tell you that all immigrants are model citizens ? Perhaps you should work in immigration control. Neither. Only if there are more intelligent foreigners who want to come here than Brits. Countries with lower paid footballers do not have this phenomenon. I was talking about all immigrants. Sorry who started talking about just East Europeans ? The original post was about immigration you never mentioned East Europeans in your post. :- I know people who don't pay any rent - that is very cheap - although not Poles. Do you think all immigration in the last few years has been from Eastern Europe ? Why do you think that ? BTW I have no problems with immigration just no chavs, criminals or muslims - I travel on public transport.

Japan has done better on the whole than the UK since the last world war with almost zero immigration. Are you on drugs ? I know loads of immigrants who come here for cheap housing and get their English lessons paid etc. Most immigrants I know earn less than me and live in nicer housing - of course they sponge off the system. What world do you live in. 7-July-2005, 21-July-2005, numerous other bomb plots, murder of a police woman in Bradford etc,etc - more like a drain on our taxes.

Perhaps unlike the UK they built more than enough homes for new immigrants ? Obviously if immigrationis not the only cause of the house price boom but if demand (for any reason) goes up and supply doesn't then prices go up. It is a widely accepted view that if demand rices but supply doesn't then prices go up.

More people enter than leave. You are right we could always build more homes on fields but this takes time. Also sometimes the land is in a flood plain which means new housing is a bad idea.

For people who still believe the census http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/3601493.stm

I think you are going off topic whether it is good or not is irrelevant. The point is that the figures for population are rubbish. Also I don't know if you are right about benefits. These people could be claiming more in tax credits than they pay in tax (if they are from Eastern Europe and have children they almost certainly do claim more for their first year).