Staffsknot

So we put all the controversial stuff back in the IM Bill and Boris will go back to speak to Ursula von der Leyen with all the good faith of someone with two fingers crossed. I think even if we get a deal all good faith is gone and the EU will be preparing for the moment UK tries to screw them.

For fun we cracked a tin of this and threw it into the CS Gas training chamber instead of the standard pellet. Everyone in there was violently sick and took about 3 days for the smell to go from the room. Never, ever open one indoors in your own home.

You could bake many fish in rock salt ( cover them ). Peel off the skin and the inside tastes fantastic.

More importantly that blows the notion of responsible farming - many supermarkets are commited to ethical standards and S. American beef often involves Amazon deforestation. So open it up but the supermarkets won't want the PR backlash and as the soft border in NI risks it getting to EU then all hell will break loose

Cleverly is the biggest oxymoron. He literally knows bob all about anything and anytime he says anything he sounds like a MrMichaelSpicer Room Next Door sketch in the offing. Cleverly once forgot the name of his own constituency and corrected a reporter who gave the actual one.

Now the final negotiating sticking point seems to be alignment. Now given the Govs continued stressing we will exceed EU env standards and not water them down that should be a cake walk - unless it was b#llocks. Although for fervent Brexiteers anything Brussels can have a say in or determine is heresy

I remember in the early 2000s when those 'give em national service' type calls resulted in programmes of 50s nostalgia for current gen. There was a programme giving todays workers a shot at agriculture - end result was they lacked the skills EEs already had. I think they were something like 1/3 as productive even after 6 weeks and only one was interested in doing it for a job afterwards.

I know 3 that have, 11 furloughed and worried aboit jobs, of those 3 might not have anything to go back to. It could be age or location based that we are having differing experiences

One last bit on the fishing saga - the Scottish fisheries impacted are likely to push for independence. Now given UK main actually consumed domestic catch is landed there this becomes an even bigger issue as SNP have a big bargaining chip to play for EU Membership - the waters would be Scottish not UK terrtorial. Pretty big own goal not only giving a chunk of yes voters but a card to play to get into the EU.

I think the fact we said we were happy breaking international law might have spurred them to look again as to whether we could be trusted, unless compelled with a unilateral punishment clause, to maintain standards. I think the UK word on something means about as much as Rudy Giuliani's swearing he has natural hair colour.

So back to we make nothing again. No extra fishing expansion, no extra sales and as we have no access to the EU waters for stuff we want, b#ggered all round. I would call this the man who shot himself in testicle with a handgun buys a knife stage of the story of self-flagellation. So the skippers of small boats are screwed. The bigger boats get to catch mackerel but don't as nobody wants it - I suppose they can all retask as sightseeing boats as the seals will eat the fish. Now another competing thing - marine protection zones. Many of them 8n our waters will also clash with any attempt to extend the small boat fishing.

The other big issue being the fragile state of North Sea cod we may have an enforced moratorium and no access to EU waters to replace it with either. ICEs came close in 2019 to stepping in.

Irradiated wind farms... at least not where the explosives are near Ireland.

It doesn't matter if they take 50x the amount of mackerel they take, go and look in your supermarket. What is the ratio of mackerel to other fish? How often have you ordered mackerel in your life? I love sea food and only occasionally have eaten it. The majority of the public will not suddenly start changing to eating stuff they don't want. The public want cod, haddock ( particularly in Scotland), tuna & plaice. Captain Birdseye doesn't sell battered mackerel for a reason. It is like doubling the number of Quality Street flavours that nobody wants - it doesn't do anything useful. You can offer pickled herrings at 3p a kilo and folks still would avoid them like a guy with mistletoe who's just had 3 pickled eggs and some cheese & onion crisps.

Yes but also she voted for it on the promise she would get all the benefits of membership without paying in - the its our money mantra came up a lot. She believed the 350m bus slogan. Now she's on the brink of losing a 20 year business. If she goes under the entire fishing village goes as that is most of the jobs gone. They are now realising what they voted for

Another interesting one - I believe we export nuclear waste to Sweden in trucks, some via EU countries. I'm sure that won't be an issue in a no deal...

Most of the fish & chips stuff is actually Icelandic, Alaskan or Norwegian imported. Cod stocks in North Sea have crashed and landed catches can't meet demand since the 90s.

@NobodyInParticular gave a very good explanation but here is a worked example of how things would play out. Increased quota for local fleets would in theory be great for a small number of boats but here's the catch ( pun intended) the current fleet size could not land 100% of the quota. Nor if you expand the fleet do we have a market to readily sell too outside the EU. So no bank is going to lend on building said trawler fleet up. Now most of the stuff in your fish & chip shops isn't from UK Trawlers, but it is likely to be affected by any tariffs as it is often Icelandic. Now the small boats sell fresh to Europe at good prices. The quality is very much in demand in Spain and France. Not just Cornish but also Welsh fishing boats too. There was a woman who ran a small group of boats and had Spanish trucks coming and taking her goods within 2hrs of unloading, onto the ferry and on the table asap... she voted Brexit as she thought it would offer new opportunities. So the Spanish importers threatening to stop buying meant she bought her own refrigerated trucks and was planning on driving it there so her boats had a future. Two weeks ago there was an interview with her. She's on the brink, if there are any delays at the ports her goods are spoiled as 'fresh' ceases to be saleable as such if she takes 8 hrs longer than she currently delivers. If there's no deal she is screwed because nobody in Wales wants that catch and outside of some London eateries the price paid halves. So she is potentially screwed, in debt and her, her family and the group of trawlers are all stuffed. The UK public just don't eat the lobster, crab, legustines or shellfish in the quantities to sustain any of our small boats. The larger boats don't often catch the fish we consume the most either. So they're screwed whatever happens unless a decent deal and no delays - allegedly there's been a breakthrough tonight but who knows about other issues.

They wouldn't be offering 90% mortgages if it wasn't good so agree will be daftly up

Same West Mids - the only places I have seen queues is outside Maccies and to walk up Mam Tor ( the first bit before they take the selfie and head away making a more pleasant walk). Like you I see lots of shops not surviving and there's a lot of local paper stuff about iconic pub x or shop y closed for good in the regional towns.

It isn't just Brexit though it is a pantomime of patriotism & nationalism. A few years ago I was in the village shop on Nov the 14th not wearing a poppy. The village flagsh!gger walked up and accosted me for not wearing a poppy and disrepecting our troops and veterans. I looked at him, said Rememberence Sunday had been and gone, it was after Rememberence Day and that you take them off afterwards. He told me I was unpatriotic liberal, I explained I was one of those veterans it was for and he scuttled off. Same one is the Brexit shouty ra-ra take back control and out in union jack T-shirt with a Leave means Leave poster on his barn... right up until the talk of subsidies being reduced. Now suddenly its not Brexit's fault its cowardly politicians ( wait for it ) - bowing to EU forcing us to close farms...

To paraphrase Sean Connery in The Untouchables when a recruit parrots the stock answer with no real understanding - there goes the next head of fisheries. That frozen fish market has more competitors. The fresh market achieved better prices and given most fish sales are working on less than 8% margin if we have tariffs or go frozen route they are all unviable and they go bust. But then that is a minor detail for folk still reliving Agincourt in their heads. Now fishing vs other industries is a minor consideration but Leavers chucking them under the bus when they were promised things to get their vote is a bit of a microcosm of all the interest groups now getting shafted. Taking back control and sovereignty seems to be the right to go back on promises and screw your fellow countrymen.

Their vote, like all those who now knowing the implications regret it, has been used and they will be jettisoned whenever it is politically convenient. It was never about economic sense and the fact economic realities prove it is a dire idea are making zero headway with the headbangers driving this. Johnson is a lame duck being pushed by the ERG as they are all that is left after he kicked out moderates to ensure power. He's now working out what keeps him in post after Jan not what is best, like the mendacious little populist pudding that he is. Basically if he tacks to a deal he gets it from the Steve Baker mob. If he doesn't its recession and if he doesn't he'll be getting pushed about again by the next pet project Steve Baker research group.

Recession in my view

The problem we have is this isn't just an economic debate it has promises made to special groups that could not be delivered. For example fish - in isolation the quotas appeals to the big ships. However majority of the small ships would go bust if there are tariffs or delays of any kind. They were all promised the world and now are just realising they may be screwed. Yet you still have the likes of George Eustace churning out the they'll be better off mantra and dismissing anything that disputes that. Even Marr pulled him up on it and he is useless. No deal screws many of those promised the world. Even a deal will hit many industries promised things that will not be delivered - many of which voted to leave on the understanding it was for something else. We're under 30 days away and some leavers are now finding they need special measures as their pet passport wont be valid and they have to go to the vets for blood samples, etc...