tinker

A very good point. These commission driven 'parasites', like Estate Agents, are a source of the problem rather than the solution. Just how many genuinely gifted or talented people are overlooked because they aren't an 'easy sell' or don't talk the talk? We all know that UK plc is replete with people who are 'not very good' at their jobs, clinging on, perpetuating the decline...

Cheers folks! I enjoyed reading that. Let's hope the woman I spoke to isn't able to identify me! She was going back to work part-time, but money concerns and 'guilt' seemed on her mind. We often talk on HPC about the desirable 3.5 x salary multiplier, but the double income family (by design and now necessity) is another factor ramping up house prices... becoming a 'norm'. We have been pressured to live this very expensive (unnecessarily so) life. The more people earn, the more life costs. Fewer (indigenous) women are having the kids to pay for pensions/healthcare when we are all old and grey - the lifestyle trade-off. High house prices are such a ludicrous thing in that the real cost to society is very high, sucking the joy (and life) out of life!

Got chatting to a young mum in a queue in a Building Society today, with her in a pram was a 5-month old baby. I was surprised that she was looking to get her into the nursery to get back to work, maternity leave ending. (It seemed too soon to me.) The mum would have liked to spend more time with the new baby, but she had to go back because of the ‘mortgage’. She lives with her hubby in terraced house that would have been £40k less than 10 years ago, is now £100-120k? We also touched on the future problems of kids who have missed out on the close and more ‘secure’ paternal relationships that older generations would have had. She withdrew money for a nursery deposit and then asked about a 0% credit card offer - living beyond their means or the only way to survive? I find it quite sad. People are over-stretched budget wise because of high house prices and a high cost of living, and therefore life choices are limited because they are stuck on the ‘hamster wheel’ of a debt-lead living. Many mums will miss out on the joy and amazement of babies in their early years, because we live in a very expensive country where owning a house is everything, and its ‘value’ a way of defining status and worth. Dad’s working such long hours that they maybe don’t see their kids as much as they’d like to… It always amazes me that people don’t question that if house prices weren’t so high, they could do something useful the spare cash - spend or save - instead of giving it to a bank or the government or a housing VI in a commission payment.

I would like to get you started... I saw a Dispatches some time ago about the true cost of PFI... I can't remember the figure but schemes were ?x more expensive funded privately (and leased back) than it would have been if a public scheme. Of course, the public get new schools and hospitals, but our kids and their kids will be paying through the nose for them. A bit like future generations getting shafted over super-high house prices. I wouldn't mind a succinct appraisal of PFI and the true cost...

:angry: Where is this 'connection' coming from? If this is true we should have coppers at no. 10 or Millbank. The whole NRK business stinks to high Heaven. Talk about being shafted.

All over the country there are thousands of people quite capable of doing these minor jobs themselves (with or without a DIY book). In the past, on your street you would know someone who would know how to do such a job and do you a favour (I think they called it community spirit; looking after one-another). Now because society has become so insular and because any confidence we had in ourselves has gone, we allow ourselves to be ripped off because these jobs need to be done by an 'expert' (so says the govt.). "In the kingdom of the blind the one-eyed man is king." Needless, over-zealous rules and regulations are imposed to keep bureaucrats in work... the control and submission goes on. As for the Poles... of course they will go home. A pool of cheap labour to be exploited, who will soon see the grass is greener elsewhere. Who could blame them? Spineless, rip-off, vacuous Britain isn't so 'great'. As a student I lived abroad and was 'proud' of being British and British ways... I just don't feel that pride anymore. I think abroad we have become a laughing stock.

Sounds a lot like what has been going on in the UK. Greed, manipulation and regulatory disinterest. When commissions and huge LCD TVs come into play scruples and judgement go out of the window. Now it is unravelling, the people who allowed this to happen should pay for this. I'm sick of hearing 'stability', 'low inflation', 'prudence', 'housing supply shortage', 'global problem', 'the tough decisons', bla bla bla... from this totally discredited bunch in office.

Not a chance! Mr Bean's snotty fingers are all over Darling's portfolio. I'd be really annoyed if Brown manages to weasel out of the mess he's responsible for.

HPC = I like that! This is a great site. I used to get so frustrated by the idiocy and short-sightedness of what was going on. It was good to find people who could see through the crap, the lies and make informed comment about the real state of the economy. Rolling news, news about the news, conjecture and spin, everything dumbed down... it's as if the whole nation has been drugged. One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest... and HPC is the Jack Nickleson character. I'll stop now!

Hasn't part of the problem been that there hasn't been proper regulation; that a free-for-all has ensued? Regulation has been weak; a blind eye turned; fraud allowed (and encouraged); maybe the regulation is there, but it certainly has not been applied. 'Mis-behaviour', or greed goes from the people borrowing to the people lending and those skimming commissions along the way. The last thing we need is no regulation, because whether it be Joe Public or intermediary or banker or politician, where money is concerned, people can't be trusted and will eventually act irresponsibly or immorally.

People have proven time and time again that they can't be trusted - and that they are too easily lead by people (often on a commission - always a clue!) offering them 'get-rich-quick schemes' and 'something for nothing'. Regulation and regulatory competence a must. Post-crash, I'm all for sensible, old-fashioned banking (personal history, proper deposits and manageable long-term multipliers). Nor should the speculative BTL frenzy ever be allowed to happen again. A house should be a home. We have to get away from the cultural yoke of home ownership at all costs; renting should be a valid and 'unstigmatised' option.

Given the hard time the Tories got last time with the 'Tories to cut public spending / black hole' jibes of recent elections, it is understandable for the Tories to be cautious over spending plans. However, perhaps things have changed, people are starting to realise that it's tax this, tax that; fine this, fine that... and quite simply we are not getting value for our money given the huge amount of money taken off us. Under New Labour is Britain a better, nicer, more self-sufficient, happier place? No! People are seeing the rich and well-connected doing very nicely, whilst us plebs are more downtrodden and frustrated. Personally, politically, I feel homeless. I want this smug, arrogant, condescending lot out. I'm struggling with The Tories and can't take the Lib Dems seriously (though I like Vince Cable - his 'Mr. Bean' and the 'privatising profits / socialising losses' over Northern Rock are spot on). I don't want extreme, I just want integrity and competence in govt. What we have is a mess, and one that should never have been allowed to happen. “No more boom and bust.” We were taken in by a cretin. Greed is never good. It’s certainly no way to run an economy. Though I'm reminded of Jack Nicholson's line in 'A Few Good Men' regarding the public "You can't handle the truth!". Ridiculous house prices and the property-funded binge have been a absolute scandal... which politician is going to say 'house prices must come down to more realistic levels, it's a good thing! And oh yeah, all that debt you've build up, you're going to have to pay it back, and that wealth you thought you had, it was just a trick we played on you… sorry! The list of incompetence is growing; the sham that is HPI (hidden debt), poor decisions on gold, public assets (Qinetiq, now Northern Rock) is beginning to unravel. Maybe a crash/recession will help us get back to some better values: family, friendship, respect, community, endeavour, good-housekeeping, just reward…

:angry: I find this Govt so exasperating! This stupid, arrogant woman carrying on where Yvette Cooper left off… the mantra unchanged: high house prices are OK (nice to get in the stamp duty), we’ll build more houses (the shortage myth), shared equity schemes will ‘help’ out FTBs. They are either corrupt or incompetent – or both. Noted yesterday following the Conway debacle that the Speaker ruled against MPs having to disclose details of whom they employ; one of the other two things was ‘second homes’. High house prices are due to cheap credit making ridiculous levels of borrowing possible and the role of housing as a get-rich-quick scheme. Shared-ownership schemes keep property prices high (the free-market, I think not). They saddle people with enslaving levels of debt. (Point taken about the future attractiveness of such properties, at the point of selling them.) The problem is the New Labour inner circle from Brown down is completely out of touch. Literally ‘spinning’ out of control. Low inflation - rubbish; CPI to set interest rates when RPI would at least better reflect what is going on in the economy; sustained growth – in an unsustainable way (consumer debt). Of course according to Ms. Cooper “debt is wealth”. A culture of greed and the worship of false gods (celebrity). I thought we couldn’t get worse than the self-interest of Thatcher’s Britain bit this lot… High house prices are not a good thing. Unsustainable debt to fund lifestyles is not a good thing. Allowing property to become a tool for speculators is not a good thing. Unfettered population growth is not a good thing. I really feel sorry for future generations who are going to be saddled with the mess being created (debt, off balance sheet PFI schemes, Northern Rock, little manufacturing, rewarding failure/lowing of standards… ). Yet who is just as much to blame? We are for putting up with it! (Rant over – for now!)

:angry: It's scary, how arrogant, deluded and bare-faced this govt has become. Last week, commented on in another thread, we had Yvette Cooper, with her remark in a TV interview (The Politics Show) that debt is savings. As if having a huge mortgage makes you rich. Everything has got twisted. HPI suits the political elite and much of the media; they are so tied up in property, that prolonging the lie and their vested interest is the only recourse. In finance, obscene amounts of money are made just moving money around (gambling) when money should be made to innovate and produce things. A few benefit disproportionately, while the country as a whole is sinking in debt and despair. It's an absolute scandal.

A similar story in Bolton this week. http://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/news/bolton..._for_bolton.php The Council trying to up the number of 'affordable' homes on sites. 'Affordable' is never defined... merely wishful thinking that sounds good. I've heard that often developers in their planning proposals agree to quotas of lower priced homes, only to weasle out of doing them once planning permission is granted - higher than expected costs in preparing the site, etc. Most planning officers too weak to actually enforce conditions. Bottom line is you can't trust the politicians or the developers on this.

Point taken, but it is under a Labour Govt that this has happened. They've colluded with the financial sector, turned a blind eye, not put in regulation to control the unhealthy speculation. It's an absolute scandal what has gone on whilst they've been in power (threefold increase in house prices!!!!). Property should never become chips in a giant casino, or somebody's pension when people need genuinely affordable places to live. The general population has been sold a lie that debt is wealth. The doctrine doing the rounds in Brown's inner circle, i.e, Cooper's flippant and stupid remark. I want some politician to scream loud and clear that is isn't right - economically and morally... and after the crash to put in measures to make sure that property porn never happens again, and that culturally we regard a house as a home, not a f@#!ing investment! (Deep breath taken, rant over!)

:angry: I heard her say that, I couldn't believe my ears, Andrew Neil picked her up on it, but only briefly, he ran out of time, he should have hammered her on it. It really showed how out of touch, incompetent and deluded these people are. She sees no problem in house prices been far too high - shared equity schemes her solution (to keep prices high). It's never a problem about excessive credit and loose lending, but the myth that is the 'supply problem', hence the 3m extra homes. Ridiculous house prices; most working people unable to contemplate a home of their own (FTBs priced out in over 90% of towns, etc.) - and this is a Labour government that has done this.