Land Registry To Include Sold Prices Of Repossessions?

[Milton]

The Land Registry, when accumulating their statistical evidence, to produce the average house price figures, are now considering, whether to include the prices of repossessed properties, sold at auctions.

These figures, would then also be published, on websites such as;

www.houseprices.co.uk, and nethouseprices.co.uk/

Personally I think this information should be included.

One of the people who is involved in this decision is Ms Amy Carton.

LandRegistry Head Office Tel: 02079178888.

I believe her Email Address is: [email protected]

[Milton]

Continued:

I recently learned that repossessions/BTL in Ltd companies/Auctions are excluded from sold price websites and LR indexes because they squew the figures And that this, practice, is clearly displayed on the land registry website

So I contacted the Land Registry.

I was told that repossessed houses, sold at auction were not included in the official statistics, because the, sold price, did not represent a clear and accurate value of said property

I questioned this. Surely, in a free market, a repossessed house, sold at an auction, is only worth what someone will pay for it? And it is therefore, the only honest, clear and accurate valuation of the property?

[Especially after it has already been in an estate agents window for a year, prior to auction!]

I asked, What is the Land Registrys definition of a clear and accurate valuation of a property?

After checking and double checking. I was called back three times, and the Land Registry were unable to provide a satisfactory answer.

I have since learned, that this practice, is in the process of being re-considered by the Land Registry.

I have sent an email to the Lady mentioned above.

I would suggest you send her an email asking the same questions.

Has anyone else anything to constructive to add to our argument?

If they do pass this. I really do think It could be a Landmark decision.

Imagine searching the web, via www.houseprices.co.uk, for the sold prices of houses, and finding 9 or 10 very similar properties on the same block, with three of them on the local Agents books, presently priced at £250k. ………..But an identical fourth one, SOLD, at auction the week before for £115k!

No Estate Agents or Vendor could argue with that!

It would snowball.

Edited May 7, 2009 by Dan1

[waitingscot]

The Land Registry, when accumulating their statistical evidence, to produce the average house price figures, are now considering, whether to include the prices of repossessed properties, sold at auctions.

These figures, would then also be published, on websites such as;

www.houseprices.co.uk, and nethouseprices.co.uk/

Personally I think this information should be included.

One of the people who is involved in this decision is Ms Amy Carton.

LandRegistry Head Office Tel: 02079178888.

I believe her Email Address is: [email protected]

Well they would need to publish both sets of figures in that case. Or else how could we compare like for like over time?

[Milton]

I sent Ms Carton this Email:

Feel free to copy, paste and send it to her yourself. Or personalise it a bit. Change some questions etc.

Maybe they will pay more attention if a number of us ask?

[email protected]

Subject: Your upcoming decision on whether to include the sold prices of repossessed properties in your official statistics.‏

Ms Amy Carton.

Product Manager

Land Registry

Hello.

I hope you do not mind me sending you an email. However, I recently learned that repossessions/BTL in Ltd companies/Auctions are excluded from sold price websites and LR indexes because they squew the figures.

And that this, is clearly displayed on the land registry website.

I was also told that repossessed houses, sold at auction were not included in your official statistics, because the, sold price, did not represent a clear and accurate value of said property.

But surely, in a free market, a repossessed house, sold at an auction, is only worth what someone will pay for it? And it is therefore, the only honest, clear and accurate valuation of the property?

[Especially after it has already been in an estate agents window for a year, prior to auction!]

May I ask, What is the Land Registrys definition of a clear and accurate valuation of a property?

I have been told that The Land Registry, when accumulating their statistical evidence, to produce the average house price figures, are now considering, whether to include the prices of repossessed properties, sold at auctions.

I was also informed that you would be instrumental in this decision.

May I ask is this true, and when will a decision be made?

What will you be basing your decision upon?

Is it an open forum, or is it a matter for the closed board of the Land Registry?

Who else is involved in this decision?

Would those figures then be able to be sold onto one of your web based customers, like, for instance, www.houseprices.co.uk, who publish Land Registry figures? Thus making them more accessible to the public?

Thankyou.

P.S I am sure, that hundreds of thousands of potential First Time Buyers, would agree that the Land Registry should be as transparent as possible with regards to these figures, and choosing to publish the figures is a good idea.

Thankyou.

With Kind Regards

......................worth a try?

.............................

Edited May 7, 2009 by Dan1

[Sibley's Love Child]

The Land Registry, when accumulating their statistical evidence, to produce the average house price figures, are now considering, whether to include the prices of repossessed properties, sold at auctions.

These figures, would then also be published, on websites such as;

www.houseprices.co.uk, and nethouseprices.co.uk/

Personally I think this information should be included.

Please bump this when/if you get a response.

[Milton]

Please bump this when/if you get a response.

It would be my pleasure hyperinflation-a-go-go. If she responds.

Send her one yourself.

She is much more likely to pay attention to 50 Emails than one.

[bearbullfence]

I sent Ms Carton this Email:

Feel free to copy, paste and send it to her yourself. Or personalise it a bit. Change some questions etc.

Maybe they will pay more attention if a number of us ask?

[email protected]

Subject: Your upcoming decision on whether to include the sold prices of repossessed properties in your official statistics.‏

Ms Amy Carton.

Product Manager

Land Registry

Hello.

I hope you do not mind me sending you an email. However, I recently learned that repossessions/BTL in Ltd companies/Auctions are excluded from sold price websites and LR indexes because they squew the figures.

And that this, is clearly displayed on the land registry website.

I was also told that repossessed houses, sold at auction were not included in your official statistics, because the, sold price, did not represent a clear and accurate value of said property.

But surely, in a free market, a repossessed house, sold at an auction, is only worth what someone will pay for it? And it is therefore, the only honest, clear and accurate valuation of the property?

[Especially after it has already been in an estate agents window for a year, prior to auction!]

May I ask, What is the Land Registrys definition of a clear and accurate valuation of a property?

I have been told that The Land Registry, when accumulating their statistical evidence, to produce the average house price figures, are now considering, whether to include the prices of repossessed properties, sold at auctions.

I was also informed that you would be instrumental in this decision.

May I ask is this true, and when will a decision be made?

What will you be basing your decision upon?

Is it an open forum, or is it a matter for the closed board of the Land Registry?

Who else is involved in this decision?

Would those figures then be able to be sold onto one of your web based customers, like, for instance, www.houseprices.co.uk, who publish Land Registry figures? Thus making them more accessible to the public?

Thankyou.

P.S I am sure, that hundreds of thousands of potential First Time Buyers, would agree that the Land Registry should be as transparent as possible with regards to these figures, and choosing to publish the figures is a good idea.

Thankyou.

With Kind Regards

......................worth a try?

.............................

Comma, comma, comma, comedian. You, put, them, there. You, put, them, everyyyyywhere.

[Milton]

Comma, comma, comma, comedian. You, put, them, there. You, put, them, everyyyyywhere.

Great post. Im sure everyone understood exactly what you meant.

[tomfoolery]

Comma, comma, comma, comedian. You, put, them, there. You, put, them, everyyyyywhere.

You missed out two commas.

[Milton]

You missed out two commas.

Actually if he missed out two commas, then he also missed out the two commas that seperated the two commas.

[tomfoolery]

Actually if he missed out two commas, then he also missed out the two commas that seperated the two commas.

Or, if you count the actual commas as well (and not just the words), there's one comma too many.

[Milton]

Or, if you count the actual commas as well (and not just the words), there's one comma too many.

I blame Boy George.

[ElPapasito]

Where does the LR site mention this exclusion? Can't find it myself.

[Milton]

Where does the LR site mention this exclusion? Can't find it myself.

I recently learned that repossessions/BTL in Ltd companies/Auctions are excluded from sold price websites and LR indexes because they squew the figures And that this, practice, is clearly displayed on the land registry website.

That, is accurate. These figures are excluded. [Note the use of the comma.]

Edited May 7, 2009 by Dan1

[Milton]

Where does the LR site mention this exclusion? Can't find it myself.

From the Land Registry:

Our residential house price data is for full value sales only, Here is the list of exclusions to the data:

Excluded data <a name="">The following are excluded from our figures

Repossessions are excluded.

1. All commercial transactions

2. Before Jan 2000 - All sales below £10,000 and over £1million .

   (On line data for Jan 2000 onwards includes details of these sales).

3. Transfer, conveyances, assignments or leases at a premium with nominal rent which are:

• ‘Right to buy’ sales at a discount

• subject to a lease

• subject to an existing mortgage

• to effect the sale of a share in a property

• by way of a gift

• by way of exchange

• under a Compulsory Purchase order

• under a court order

• to Trustees

• Vesting Deeds

• Transmissions or Assents

• of more than one property

• Leases for 7 years or less

Commercial Services Enquiry Team

Edited May 7, 2009 by Dan1

[TT1]

I've seen a repo that was sold at auction listed on the most recent houseprices.co.uk figures. I know for a fact it was the correct sold price listed, way overpaid (15% off peak) though, maybe thats why they included it

[Telometer]

The land registry DOES include auction/repossessions. They are all there when you do a nethouseprice.co.uk search.

However, they are not included in the published averages.

[grizzly bear]

The Land Registry, when accumulating their statistical evidence, to produce the average house price figures, are now considering, whether to include the prices of repossessed properties, sold at auctions.

These figures, would then also be published, on websites such as;

www.houseprices.co.uk, and nethouseprices.co.uk/

Personally I think this information should be included.

One of the people who is involved in this decision is Ms Amy Carton.

LandRegistry Head Office Tel: 02079178888.

I believe her Email Address is: [email protected]

I got a reply!!!

I will make appointment for next week - I'll go in person if London (seems likely with 0207 phone number) otherwise on the phone.

Carton, Amy to me

show details 5:24 PM (45 minutes ago) Reply

XXX,

Many Thanks for your enquiry.

I am more than happy to talk you through the points that you raise, and alleviate some of your concerns. If you would kindly provide your number I will schedule an appointment in for us next week.

Look forward to hearing from you.

Best regards,

Amy

[Milton]

I got a reply!!!

I will make appointment for next week - I'll go in person if London (seems likely with 0207 phone number) otherwise on the phone.

Carton, Amy to me

show details 5:24 PM (45 minutes ago) Reply

XXX,

Many Thanks for your enquiry.

I am more than happy to talk you through the points that you raise, and alleviate some of your concerns. If you would kindly provide your number I will schedule an appointment in for us next week.

Look forward to hearing from you.

Best regards,

Amy

ROFL. Are those XXX, kisses ?!

[grizzly bear]

ROFL. Are those XXX, kisses ?!

Not as I wanted to take my name out for the board. My name was on the email I received.

[D.C.]

I got a reply!!!

I will make appointment for next week - I'll go in person if London (seems likely with 0207 phone number) otherwise on the phone.

Grizz, if you do a get a meeting,

Also point out that many developers will offer 'deals' and cashback etc to up the price that appears on the land registry figures.

These are also massively distorting the figures and allow for what in effect is rampant mortgage fraud.

[Milton]

However, they are not included in the published averages.

I sent an email to www.houseprices.co.uk, and asked them,

Could you please clarify something for me?

>

[iI was told that repossessed houses which are sold at auctions are excluded from websites like your own,

and the Land Registry, because they squew the figures.

>

Is that true?

They responded;

Hi Daniel,

>

> I'm afraid that repossessions are excluded.

>

> The Land Registry are reviewing this at the moment.

>

> Cheers

I know that the Land Registry do exclude the Sold Prices of the repossessed properties

which are sold at auction, from the figures which they present to the Media. Like the BBC for instance.

The response I got from www.houseprices.co.uk led me to believe that they also exclude these

figures from websites as well?

Im going to go check my email, see if I got a response too.

Edited May 7, 2009 by Dan1

[grizzly bear]

Grizz, if you do a get a meeting,

Also point out that many developers will offer 'deals' and cashback etc to up the price that appears on the land registry figures.

These are also massively distorting the figures and allow for what in effect is rampant mortgage fraud.

Good point - meeting will probably be on the phone and not last very long so please all give me the points to mention!

So far:

- cash back deals

- auction

- repos

- sales to limited companies

anything else to bring up?

[generation jones]

A property I am aware sold at auction as a repossession is not on nethouseprices.com and as they get their info from the LR not included I suppose - unless someone feeds them the data from elsewhere.

The points should be made to the LR that a sale at auction is not always of repossessed property as it may just be an unsaleable property elsewhere and in property disputes a sale at auction is regarded as a means of achieving a fair price (albeit as a likely last resort in the absence of agreement) so the LR argument is somewhat fallacious.

[tim123]

I've seen a repo that was sold at auction listed on the most recent houseprices.co.uk figures. I know for a fact it was the correct sold price listed, way overpaid (15% off peak) though, maybe thats why they included it

They aren't that clever.

It will be because someone ticked the wrong box on the form

tim