Edinbugh Latest

[deaver2003]

Hi, have been reading the forum for a few weeks. very interesting. I am looking to buy in Edinburgh (i know most of you'll will have their hands up in the air shreiking!). Like this one

http://www.espc.com/Buying/262893.html

was O/O £175000..now FP £195000...well maintained, nice area.

is the price sensible? or should i look elsewhere?

thanks

[Radge]

Looks pricey to me for no GCH. Beware factoring charges in these modern developments as well.

[ccc]

Hi, have been reading the forum for a few weeks. very interesting. I am looking to buy in Edinburgh (i know most of you'll will have their hands up in the air shreiking!). Like this one

http://www.espc.com/Buying/262893.html

was O/O £175000..now FP £195000...well maintained, nice area.

is the price sensible? or should i look elsewhere?

thanks

Up to you what is sensible in your own mind.

However it is a 2 bed flat, fairly nice looking in a semi decent area between Gorgie and Fountainpark, pretty close to Town.

Stand back and think about what sort of money you are talking about. Just under a fifth of a million pounds. Does that seem a sensible price for what you are getting ? 5 years ago you would have got this for 100k. I don't remember anyone back then going on about these flats being a bargain back then. What has changed since then ? Not much, apart from a stupid housing 'boom' in this city.

Personally I would wait for a few years and hope to get this for nearer the 100k mark. That may not happen of course but it is looking more and more likely by the day.

If you do insist on buying it offer low !!! Go in at 170k or something and see what they say. No harm done.

[geed]

Hi, have been reading the forum for a few weeks. very interesting. I am looking to buy in Edinburgh (i know most of you'll will have their hands up in the air shreiking!). Like this one

http://www.espc.com/Buying/262893.html

was O/O £175000..now FP £195000...well maintained, nice area.

is the price sensible? or should i look elsewhere?

thanks

Hello and welcome. I have to ask, if you have been here for a few weeks and you are looking to buy, has any of what has been said on this forum been absorbed by you at all? I dont want to sound rude but our views on here are pretty firmly focused. Perhaps you may like to give us a bit more backgroung and I, for one, would genuinely like to know your reasons for thinking why it is a good time to buy.

ccc, hit the nail on the head. 1/5th of a million pounds (chant it like a mantra and see how comfortable you are with this figure whilst stairing at the property on the web) is a stupifying amount of money for a flat anywhere in the world.

Edinburgh has boomed and it will bust. 1 bed flats in that area are already (polworth and surrounds) on the way down some 3-4 % over the last yr. The crash will propogate from the bottom up, eating into the frothy values like a slug in a cabbage patch.

I treat all property like an STD at the moment. Stay well, well away.

This may start to make sense at £140K, thats roughly 30% down form its current price.

If you really have to???!??!?!?!??? offer 20% below price stating the market. They should be open to a 10% discount if they are really serious about selling but go in hard first, I think I have seen this a while back, it has beeen on the market at least 2 months has it not?

[SelfDoIt]

is the price sensible? or should i look elsewhere?

Well to be fair the rooms seem quite a reasonable size and you get parking, but it is ground floor (noisier) and in a modern development not a traditional tenement.

I would have said that £160000 was reasonable for it. I think the price they are asking is unrealistically high in the current market.

Things are only just peaking out in Edinburgh, I would seriously wait at least 6 months to a year if you can. Most of us on here don't think prices will hit bottom for at least 2 years, but you can't put your life on hold forever I know.

[scotty_boy]

Forget the prices for a minute. Having lived in a ground floor flat for over 2 years, i would never pay that sort of money for something that wasn't on the top floor. The noise from above can drive you bananas. You might be lucky and get quiet neighbours... but what if they have wooden floors and kids running about? Its worth thinking about. If your looking in Polwarth why not look at the tenements, they are much better built and are always in demand.

Do you realise for 195k you could probably buy a detached house if you moved 10 mins outside the city centre?

[SelfDoIt]

Wow, last minute splurge before festival, or lots of properties falling down from above into my search band (2 bedrooms, city centre, between £150000 and £250000) but the number has jumped up this week by 20 properties to a record 204.

Many of my old favourites on the search list have gone to fixed price, though usually for a lot more than the offers over price was.

Examples:

http://www.espc.com/Buying/259433.html

I can't recall exactly but I think this used to be offers over at about £175000

http://www.espc.com/Buying/254259.html

Again not completely sure but I think this used to be offers over £185000

http://www.espc.com/Buying/261556.html

Same sort of idea.

These people are trying to play this years game with last years rules. These properties have all been on there for ages.

Not surprisingly my favourite two comedy properties are still on there, not sold, but not reduced again this week.

http://www.espc.com/Buying/256575.html

http://www.espc.com/Buying/247612.html

[geed]

Wow, last minute splurge before festival, or lots of properties falling down from above into my search band (2 bedrooms, city centre, between £150000 and £250000) but the number has jumped up this week by 20 properties to a record 204.

Many of my old favourites on the search list have gone to fixed price, though usually for a lot more than the offers over price was.

Examples:

http://www.espc.com/Buying/259433.html

I can't recall exactly but I think this used to be offers over at about £175000

http://www.espc.com/Buying/254259.html

Again not completely sure but I think this used to be offers over £185000

http://www.espc.com/Buying/261556.html

Same sort of idea.

These people are trying to play this years game with last years rules. These properties have all been on there for ages.

Not surprisingly my favourite two comedy properties are still on there, not sold, but not reduced again this week.

http://www.espc.com/Buying/256575.html

http://www.espc.com/Buying/247612.html

Let em' squeel the greedy b"stards! Crash Crash

[sellbydate]

Hi, have been reading the forum for a few weeks. very interesting. I am looking to buy in Edinburgh (i know most of you'll will have their hands up in the air shreiking!). Like this one

http://www.espc.com/Buying/262893.html

was O/O £175000..now FP £195000...well maintained, nice area.

is the price sensible? or should i look elsewhere?

thanks

One good way to judge ‘value for money’ is to find a similar flat to rent and then compare the monthly rent with an ‘interest only’ mortgage payment.

This one sounds similar at £750pcm.

http://www.lettingweb.com/properties/view/...&perpage=15

I reckon the ‘interest only’ mortgage on £195k would be ~£1000 per month, 30% more, so it is still overpriced. (Remember that if you have a deposit, although your monthly mortgage payments will be less, you’re forfeiting the interest that that money would be earning in the bank so don’t forget to account for that)

I do think rents will creep up a bit as prices crash over the next couple of years. In this example, I would think £150,000/£850pcm might be about the tipping point where it becomes worth buying again.

[Muswell Hillbilly]

One good way to judge ‘value for money’ is to find a similar flat to rent and then compare the monthly rent with an ‘interest only’ mortgage payment.

[stuff deleted]

I do think rents will creep up a bit as prices crash over the next couple of years. In this example, I would think £150,000/£850pcm might be about the tipping point where it becomes worth buying again.

That’s why I believe two-bed tenement flats in Marchmont/Bruntsfield are so ludicrously overpriced. The average sale price in Q2 2008 was £282,000, which would be £1,410 per month on a 6% interest-only mortgage over 25 years. As standard two-bed flats (not student HMOs) these flats rent for £800 tops, so perhaps £160,000 would be a fair sale price (£800 per month on a 6% interest-only mortgage).

[Roddy331]

That’s why I believe two-bed tenement flats in Marchmont/Bruntsfield are so ludicrously overpriced. The average sale price in Q2 2008 was £282,000, which would be £1,410 per month on a 6% interest-only mortgage over 25 years. As standard two-bed flats (not student HMOs) these flats rent for £800 tops, so perhaps £160,000 would be a fair sale price (£800 per month on a 6% interest-only mortgage).

What about one of these 3 bedroom executive flats down in Leith for £135,000?

http://www.countrywidepropertyauctions.co....rch&dbtype=

Look like a good buy - were these not selling new at well over £300,000 last year?

Roddy

[Scunnered]

Not surprisingly my favourite two comedy properties are still on there, not sold, but not reduced again this week.

http://www.espc.com/Buying/256575.html

http://www.espc.com/Buying/247612.html

The second one's a beauty. "Semi detached villa, £210,000":

Might be tempting for one of those cash-rich overseas buyers that make the Edinburgh market immune to price falls.

[Guest An Bearin Bui]

The second one's a beauty. "Semi detached villa, £210,000":

Might be tempting for one of those cash-rich overseas buyers that make the Edinburgh market immune to price falls.

Yes I can see someone from Shanghai, Moscow or Dubai being very keen to buy into an Edinburgh market that provides such charming, bijou pied-a-terres for such bargain prices. Only half a million dollars! Get bidding now Messrs Vladimirovich, Lee and Al-Sheikh!

Edited July 16, 2008 by An Bearin Bui

[mattn]

What about one of these 3 bedroom executive flats down in Leith for £135,000?

http://www.countrywidepropertyauctions.co....rch&dbtype=

Look like a good buy - were these not selling new at well over £300,000 last year?

Roddy

Next door apartment (same size, same floorplan, same floor) sold for £344,000 in June 2006. Guide price today - £135,000 - £140000.

Yikes a drop of over 60%!!

Surely some mistake - isn't edinburgh different?

On another topic, wife (trying to decide on whether to sell or rent our second property) was talking to one of the best and most successful agents in Edi yesterday. Was told that not a thing is selling, any offers received are actually 10% under the 'offers over' price, that they are laying off half their staff, and are refusing to take on new sales instructions! Seems that prop sales have fallen off a cliff here - roll on Oct's Q3 ESPC figures. Interested to see how they gloss over the reality!

M

[SelfDoIt]

Was told that not a thing is selling, any offers received are actually 10%

That is very interesting indeed. I wonder what the rationale is behind going from offers over of £185K to Fixed Price £210 then. They are still thinking they can get 10%+ more than the silly numbers they are asking for.

The whole thing in madness. I'm on the border of being a higher rate tax payer, and my partner earns just over the average wage. So 3X our salary is roughly £195K. Most of the 'two bed professional' properties are still out of our reach. Until they fall back into our zone, they aren't going to sell. Other couples may have more equity than us, true as we are effectively FTBs, but we also have no debt, and I'm guessing that most couples our age have quite a lot of debt.

I'm still holding out for a 2 bed with separate lounge and kitchen diner, in a traditional tenement within a mile of a train station, for £200 000 including any renovation.

I think things are just starting to go bad. I wouldn't say that I'm traditionally a perveyor of gloom, but I think that the people who say 'depression' rather than 'recession' have it right. I think we are still just at the beginning of the economic problems.

[Scunnered]

I think things are just starting to go bad. I wouldn't say that I'm traditionally a perveyor of gloom, but I think that the people who say 'depression' rather than 'recession' have it right. I think we are still just at the beginning of the economic problems.

You could be right. Here's something from today's Scotsman.

Embattled HBOS cuts jobs as rights issue humiliation looms

SCOTTISH banking giant HBOS announced plans to cut 650 jobs yesterday, as its share price crashed to a new low – only hours before its £4 billion rights issue closes.

...

Experts also said such low prices made Britain's fifth-largest bank ripe for takeover – a move that could rip its headquarters, and all the economic benefits that brings, out of Edinburgh.

...

The credit crunch is a huge headache for HBOS – more than for many other banks – because it is a major lender and has lent to the troubled housebuilding industry. It is suffering both from mortgage defaulters and firms unable to meet their loan obligations.

...

[An analyst] said HBOS's future was intrinsically linked to that of the property market – if the market collapsed and mortgage payments went up, the bank could suffer from a huge increase in defaulters. This would force it to write off debts.

...

Bloody hell. If the HBOS HQ went then things might get really serious.

[Jadoube]

That is very interesting indeed. I wonder what the rationale is behind going from offers over of £185K to Fixed Price £210 then. They are still thinking they can get 10%+ more than the silly numbers they are asking for.

Mmm. I spotted one yesterday that had changed something like fixed price £295k to fixed price £330k

Not sure what's going on. Either the vendor was talked into going for the lower figure but upped it when no offers came. OR the vendor hopes to con the unwary and take offers a lot lower than the higher "price".

(Sorry can't find the link while I'm at work. IT limit the sites we can visit.)

[Jadoube]

Is it just me or is espc dead?

I'm unanle to connect to it from either home or work, and its been like that for a couple of dayus.

[Scunnered]

Is it just me or is espc dead?

I'm unanle to connect to it from either home or work, and its been like that for a couple of dayus.

Strangely, http://www.espc.co.uk doesn't seem to work but http://www.espc.com/ is OK.

Edited July 18, 2008 by Scunnered

[wellieboot]

Hi,

I can't get into the ESPC either, I need to get in by going through http://www.espcfirsttimebuyers.com/ then getting into the ESPC homepage from there.

Could the ESPC be starting to block people from viewing the site.

Anyone else out there having problems?

[mattn]

Could the ESPC be starting to block people from viewing the site.

Unlikely - try - http://www.espc.com/HomePage.html

[quine]

That is very interesting indeed. I wonder what the rationale is behind going from offers over of £185K to Fixed Price £210 then. They are still thinking they can get 10%+ more than the silly numbers they are asking for.

The whole thing in madness. I'm on the border of being a higher rate tax payer, and my partner earns just over the average wage. So 3X our salary is roughly £195K. Most of the 'two bed professional' properties are still out of our reach. Until they fall back into our zone, they aren't going to sell. Other couples may have more equity than us, true as we are effectively FTBs, but we also have no debt, and I'm guessing that most couples our age have quite a lot of debt.

I'm still holding out for a 2 bed with separate lounge and kitchen diner, in a traditional tenement within a mile of a train station, for £200 000 including any renovation.

I think things are just starting to go bad. I wouldn't say that I'm traditionally a perveyor of gloom, but I think that the people who say 'depression' rather than 'recession' have it right. I think we are still just at the beginning of the economic problems.

The prices have been increased because anyone showing interest is offered a "massive" discount taking the price back to the price pre-last increase. Don't fall for it. Soon property will be half price.

[Fergie]

I've been following Gorgie, and that's definitely falling. Last year, there was very little on sale, and if anything did come up FP, it would be minimum £125,000, often more. Gradually, more and more have been coming on FP, and it's been sliding, £119,000, £115,000, £110,000. Now there's actually one at FP £99,950 - psychological barrier? They said so on the way up

imo, it still has a long way to fall before it would be remotely worth buying a flat there. They were £25-30,000 ten years ago.

[Scunnered]

A vaguely interesting story in this week's Scotland on Sunday: Credit crunch leaves glut of unsold homes.

THE number of unsold properties on the Scottish housing market has reached unprecedented levels because of the current mortgage squeeze.

Property agents across the country are reporting record levels of homes for sale on their books but a chronic shortage of buyers. Not only are transactions down by up to 50% in some areas but the time being taken to conclude deals has also extended by several weeks.

It's basically confirming what we've been saying here for a couple of months now, although they've got someone from the ESPC quoting figures which don't seem to bear any relation to the ones on their website.

The second part of the article is rather entertaining if you enjoy other people's misfortunes.

IT WAS sold as a walled paradise just a few miles south of Scotland's capital. When businessman William Carrington paid £2.25m for Middleton Hall in 2004 he was buying one of the country's best small country estates with a classical A-listed mansion at its heart.

But the estate is now back on the market after being repossessed by Halifax Bank of Scotland.

Middleton Hall, an 18th-century house near Gorebridge, Midlothian, which has 113 acres of grounds surrounded by a 10ft tall protective wall, was purchased by Carrington and his American wife Anne to fit in with their international horse-breeding business.

However, various attempts by the California-based Carringtons to sell their Scottish family home since 2005 – one agent said they disliked the Scottish climate – have failed. At one stage, during the boom in the Scottish property market, it was offered in the US for £13.5m although that had dropped to £4.3m by 2006.

It is now on the market for a relatively modest £2.9m after repossession by the bank last month. A notice attached to the building last week said the Carrington's had been "ejected" from the premises on June 23 by a sheriff officer based in Glasgow.

<continues>

And they said it couldn't happen here. I think the guy deserves some kudos for his audacious attempt to flip it at 600% of the price he paid for it though.

EDIT: here's a photo (from the Primelocation listing).

Edited July 20, 2008 by Scunnered

[Mancghirl]

A few weeks ago, I was a bit grumpy about the fact that Edinburgh was lagging so much and folk were still kidding themselves on that the falls would never come.

Then I spotted this yesterday afternoon

http://www.espc.com/Buying/262340.html

God, you can almost smell the desperation! Happy Days. I shall keep on renting and saving, we've clearly only just begun.......