Tv Programme About Last Property Crash

[Elizabeth]

One thing that is different this time round that has NOT been mentioned is the Great British public do not seem to care anymore.

Remember the outrage when unemployment hit a million in 1979? We now have well over a million with double that on incapacity benefit. The silence is deafening.

Remember the poll tax riots. We now have OAP's going to prison because they cannot afford their Council Tax. Who seems to care?

Remember the student riots from the 60's and 70's about Vietnam and any other popular cause. Even now with our soldiers dying in Iraq and students racking up huge debts at the end of their studies they trot quietly off to their bedsits.

Remember the outrage at Tory sleaze from only a decade ago. We now have a Govt. populated with Ministers that keep getting caught out with their financial dealings. What happens? They end up in grace and favour appartments or running the Euro Commission.

We have a Government that blatantly lies to it's electorate. We have a Prime Minister that goes to war on a lie. What happens? He stays in power after coming to terms with his God. So that's allright then.

What on Earth has happened to this country? Why have we become so passive? It's almost as if as a country we have given up.

Your thoughts please.........

My thoughts (and thank you for the invitation)

I reckon the reason students don't plot anymore is a clever combination of social engineering factors.

1. With the burgeoning higher education sector education has become a technical route to a job rather than the exploration of ideas.

2. With the burgeoning of higher education, you simply don't have to have a middle class / ruling class knowledge base and a middle class perspective to do it.

3. Same reason, all you need is a desire for technical expertise rather thana fine and enquiring mind!

4. Mass education has to be paid for. A smaller educational base let in those who had the liberty, family money and generally family values around education to go to university (ruling class and bourgeoise, not neccessarily petty either). The few that got in from the proletariate classes were very most demonstrably good of the rest. No revolution has ever been driven by the working class. Observe Soviet Russia / Communist China / Vietnam / and even gasping-horror Cambodia (Pol Pot had a university education I believe in France)

5. The introduction of mass education for poor people and fees has meant that most students probably have a second job to fill their wasted hours, instead of sitting amongst their mates drinking beer and plotting the revolution.

6. Lack of decent bursaries for living expenses same as above.

7. The movement away from housing owned by the university and charged at what was effectively a social rent to market rent determined by the private sector.

8. The move toward landlords managing houses rather than students living in genuinely shared conditions (or squats!). It is the fragmentation of relations through mediation of individual financial management by a central figure of authority - THE LANDLORD. (cultural studies w@nk and it still shows )

9. The lack of a cultural identity as "a student". Back when, students used to be fundamentally out of school and using the experience as a safe testing ground. A sort of nursery for adolesent passion. A huge number of students are now older, studying part-time, in vocationally focuses course and their main priorities and focuses are elsewhere.

10. The integration of students into the debt culture through the introduction of debt that will take years to pay off

[BuyingBear]

21. The economy is not rapidly overheating as it was in the late 1980s when Lawson shadowed the £ against the German DM.

That's true, in fact the economy is now hardly growing at all and is well below historical trend combined with rising unemployment.

[CrashedOutAndBurned]

One thing that is different this time round that has NOT been mentioned is the Great British public do not seem to care anymore.

Remember the outrage when unemployment hit a million in 1979? We now have well over a million with double that on incapacity benefit. The silence is deafening.

Remember the poll tax riots. We now have OAP's going to prison because they cannot afford their Council Tax. Who seems to care?

Remember the student riots from the 60's and 70's about Vietnam and any other popular cause. Even now with our soldiers dying in Iraq and students racking up huge debts at the end of their studies they trot quietly off to their bedsits.

Remember the outrage at Tory sleaze from only a decade ago. We now have a Govt. populated with Ministers that keep getting caught out with their financial dealings. What happens? They end up in grace and favour appartments or running the Euro Commission.

We have a Government that blatantly lies to it's electorate. We have a Prime Minister that goes to war on a lie. What happens? He stays in power after coming to terms with his God. So that's allright then.

What on Earth has happened to this country? Why have we become so passive? It's almost as if as a country we have given up.

Your thoughts please.........

I can remember being on the anti-war march in London prior to the gulf war. I've marched a fair few times but the sheer 'vibe' of 1m/1.5m/2m(depending on who's figures you go by) people was incredible. It was about the only time I'd ever felt soaring national pride inside me. Even anti-war people around the globe couldn't quite believe what the British campaign had gone and done.

When Blair and the media swished the whole effort away like some gnat the spirit really died and when we joined the attack on Iraq many of the freshly-politicised probably felt utterly vindicated for their previous apathy.

I sometimes wonder why there is so little civil unrest when so many people are getting a shafting for so many reasons. I wouldn't be surprised if a mild recession occurs, and people no longer have their sub-living-wage jobs to numb themselves with, a huge amount of pent-up anger might spill onto the streets.

Edited March 7, 2006 by CrashedOutAndBurned

[BuyingBear]

I sometimes wonder why there is so little civil unrest when so many people are getting a shafting for so many reasons.

We now have 24 hour drinking and super-casinos.

[Elizabeth]

I can remember being on the Anti-war march in Lond prior to the gulf war. I've marched a fair few times but the sheer 'vibe' of 1m/1.5m/2m(depending on who's figures you go by) was incredible. It was about the only time I'd ever felt soaring national pride inside me. Even anti-war people around the globe couldn't quite believe what the British campaign had gone and done.

When Blair and the media swished the whole effort away like some gnat the spirit really died and when we joined the attack on Iraq many of the freshly-politicised probably felt utterly vindicated for their previous apathy.

I sometimes wonder why there is so little civil unrest when so many people are getting a shafting for so many reasons. I wouldn't be surprised if a mild recession occurs, and people no longer have their sub-living-wage jobs to numb themselves with, a huge amount of pent-up anger might spill onto the streets.

There is no civil unrest because we are well fed and well watered, and have a degree of freedom to pursue our own lives in this country. Most of Britian will have shelter, hot water and a meal. The stasi is unlikely to be knocking at our door.

Most people in Britian would have more tears for their dead pet than they would for the people who are dead in foriegn conflicts. And I hate to say it, understandably so. I don't personally know any dead people from any conflict that our government has involved itself with. No matter how many people die in Iraq it doesn't really touch us. I mean REALLY touch us. It makes me angry on theoretical grounds because it is wrong wrong wrong, but I don't feel it. I don't personally know any dead Iraqi's. I don't cry for Iraq because I haven't lost anything that I love but innocence. I don't cry for anything because my belly is full and I am going to sleep warm tonight.

Swishing away minor discontent is the nature of politics and the media (the ideological forces of the state if you agree with Althusser). They will do that everytime. Its whether, have been swished away like a gnat you are prepared to stand again and march again. Most people aren't. They march, they are belittled, the low self esteem that the entire system is built on kicks in, along with the fact that while they might believe it, it is not a primary driver in their lives. If a million people really believe it and deeply care they will keep saying it. But if a million people gathers at a highly publisiced, highly socialised march that will probably be a hoot (and a great pick up opportunity - thats 500,000 chicks to choose from!) to say it once it is a roman carnival - just letting off steam. If there was a rolling protest that continued to attract those sorts of crowds once a week they wouldn't dare swish, but people with that level of passion for their cause tend to be handing out Socialist Party pamphlets on weekends and look what the world thinks of them. I don't agree with a huge amount of what they say, but I admire their commitment. But I think I am pretty much alone. The general consensus is boring, irritating, irrelevant, anacronistic, no friend groupies.

[BuyingBear]

Elizabeth,

Are building societies all that cuddly? I have an annual report from the Coventry Building Society here, the boss paid himself £322k this year including benefits and performance related pay but excluding pension contributions (another £9k apparently), that's up on £297k last year. The other two executive directors were paid £249k and £212k on the same basis, the nine non-execs (turn up for second tuesday in the month jobbies) are paid between £30-51k.

Now maybe these people are given extra dispensation for being sent to Coventry or something, but looking at other BS reports it doesn't seem untypical.

I fail to see how this is any different than banking with and buying shares in someone like HSBC.

[Elizabeth]

Elizabeth,

Are building societies all that cuddly? I have an annual report from the Coventry Building Society here, the boss paid himself £322k this year including benefits and performance related pay but excluding pension contributions (another £9k apparently), that's up on £297k last year. The other two executive directors were paid £249k and £212k on the same basis, the nine non-execs (turn up for second tuesday in the month jobbies) are paid between £30-51k.

Now maybe these people are given extra dispensation for being sent to Coventry or something, but looking at other BS reports it doesn't seem untypical.

I fail to see how this is any different than banking with and buying shares in someone like HSBC.

322K? Thats a hell of a lot less than the 15M that banking CEOs seem to work themselves up to. How much the CEO gets is dependant on which building society. I saw an article about the Cambridge building society and the CEO was getting in the late 90s low 100s. So it depends which Building Society, but they are more cuddly than the barstard banks! I had a mate who was in the serious financial shite just prior to the change in the law to force banks to offer basic accounts. She had gone through a number of credit cards and then a number of consolidation loans followed by one of those dodgy debt management places, had set up some kind of dodgy account through them and then had had her account closed down due to a change in bank policy for these kind of accounts.

The financial shite was all her own fault, and no responsibility whatsoever in her behaviour, but at that point she actually needed a bank account. Not for further ridiculous consumption but for the basic need of getting paid. None of the other banks would give her one since they used to check credit ratings (until they were forced not to on the basic accounts. Another of the genuine achievements of the generally awful government). She was in total financial meltdown since she couldn't get paid since her employer only paid into accounts and agreed to give her a cheque on a one off basis only. Having a bank account is no longer an option for basic economic activity.

The only financial organisation that would give her an account was Brittania Building Society. It saved her bacon. OK so the banks will now. But its not out of any generosity of spirit!

Cuddly enough for me to keep my signature until I find something else I want to say.

[Mr Blek]

One thing that is different this time round that has NOT been mentioned is the Great British public do not seem to care anymore.

Remember the outrage when unemployment hit a million in 1979? We now have well over a million with double that on incapacity benefit. The silence is deafening.

Remember the poll tax riots. We now have OAP's going to prison because they cannot afford their Council Tax. Who seems to care?

Remember the student riots from the 60's and 70's about Vietnam and any other popular cause. Even now with our soldiers dying in Iraq and students racking up huge debts at the end of their studies they trot quietly off to their bedsits.

Remember the outrage at Tory sleaze from only a decade ago. We now have a Govt. populated with Ministers that keep getting caught out with their financial dealings. What happens? They end up in grace and favour appartments or running the Euro Commission.

We have a Government that blatantly lies to it's electorate. We have a Prime Minister that goes to war on a lie. What happens? He stays in power after coming to terms with his God. So that's allright then.

What on Earth has happened to this country? Why have we become so passive? It's almost as if as a country we have given up.

Your thoughts please.........

Don't forget the fuel protests.

Thisis the way I see it: the majority have never had it so good. They don't want to upset the apple cart. It'll only bite them when the economy starts its downhill plunge.

[BuyingBear]

322K? Thats a hell of a lot less than the 15M that banking CEOs seem to work themselves up to.

Actually I'm not sure if it is on a comparative basis, Coventry BS made £37.1m in profits for fiscal 2005, whereas HSBC made £11.9b, on that basis HSBC has got itself a bit of a bargain when it comes to their management.

Most BS's out there look like banks, and sell like them.

[wifeling-smi]

19. Interest Rates are now lower and more stable.

20. We are not handcuffed to the ERM and have more control over our monetary policy.

21. The economy is not rapidly overheating as it was in the late 1980s when Lawson shadowed the £ against the German DM.

22. We have a Chancellor who wants to be Prime Minister for more than a year. (HPC is not a votewinner)

23. See 20. This time we can devalue sterling to cause inflation to erode debt. Just like in the 1970s. = Little or no nominal falls in house prices.

Re: Point 22 - Yes you're right W-A-P - Gordon won't let a crash happen - he's got the power to keep one at bay I reckon - unlike all the other prime ministers who have wanted to preside over a HPC, Gordon clearly doesn't - I think all house owners can sleep well tonight. SuperGordon for PM - He's here to save the world...

[Guest Winners and Losers]

Re: Point 22 - Yes you're right W-A-P - Gordon won't let a crash happen - he's got the power to keep one at bay I reckon - unlike all the other prime ministers who have wanted to preside over a HPC, Gordon clearly doesn't - I think all house owners can sleep well tonight. SuperGordon for PM - He's here to save the world...

How do you like that one WAP (aka TTRTR) - joking!!!

[BuyingBear]

Re: Point 22 - Yes you're right W-A-P - Gordon won't let a crash happen - he's got the power to keep one at bay I reckon - unlike all the other prime ministers who have wanted to preside over a HPC, Gordon clearly doesn't - I think all house owners can sleep well tonight. SuperGordon for PM - He's here to save the world...

Yeah, what PM seriously thought "hrm, lets have a nice recession and bursting of a speculative bubble, oh, and I'll have fish on Tuesday". Not wanting something to happen isn't enough, Gordy certainly coudn't do anything about the SM crash in 2000, what makes you think he can manage an equally global and even more out of control housing bubble? It's gonna be fun

Edited March 7, 2006 by BuyingBear

[geneer]

What on Earth has happened to this country? Why have we become so passive? It's almost as if as a country we have given up.

Your thoughts please.........

Ch 4's Big Brother has sapped our will to live.

[doomwatch]

There is no way they would make such a show and not visit this site.

Indeed it is likely they have before now.

I emailed the contact yeterday requesting some info on the angle/context of the programme, but so far no response.

If HPC is cited in the programme, I'm sure they will make out this site has been around for 2ish years & so far no crash, spinnng that we're all a bunch of nutters/"doomsters".