What Happens In Ireland Now The Government Has Collapsed?

[MinceBalls]

I am just perplexed by all of the goings on, not just in Ireland, but around the world.

From what I hear about Ireland, they have a hugely generous benefits system, and tremendous largesse in the public sector. It sounds as if they could balance their budget quite easily if they wanted to.

Paying off the debt though, that is another matter.

No political party though, wants to grasp the nettle, and do the right thing. For me the right thing would be to tell the creditors to get stuffed, balance the budget so there is no need to borrow, prosecute those at the banks for anything that even smells like a dodgy loan and see what happens in court, go after the assets of wrongdoers, and let ordinary borrowers go bankrupt like they can in the UK.

No one in Ireland, or that matter in the Western world, seems to want to face up to this reality, instead they find someone else to borrow more from, and carry on as before. So desperate have things become, that the Irish Central bank have taken to printing some extra Euros to bailout their busted and corrupt banks, to keep these zombies going. Insanity.

I just wonder, if irony of ironies, Sinn Fein get in power in the republic, and do the right thing. Prosecute the bankers, seize their assets, and return them to the creditors of failed banks. Would they do this? Would they also balance the budget, and shun the elite that currently feed from the public sector trough?

And what will our government do? They think that growth will pay the bills, but what if that doesnt happen? Can they overcome normality bias, and deal with the reality of the cancer that are our bankers and lock the bad guys up? Can they cut public sector wages and benefits, and reduce our expenditure on pensions, so that our budget becomes balanced again?

I have little confidence that they can, they talk tough, but smell strong.

Just when are the December PSBR figures out? Does anyone have a calendar of release dates for that most important of figures?

What he said ^^

[VickieJo]

The current Irish government has been a laughing stock for some time. It was a sign of how out of touch the BBC's economics editor Stephanie Flanders is that she called Ireland's Finance Minister Brian Lenihan "a good man". Mind you of course she also told us that Ireland would get nowhere near a default...

One blog which has been much more up to speed has been notayesmanseconomics. I notice that he suggests this today for whoever might get into power in Ireland.

One area where I suggest they start is the interest-rate which was negotiated on the IMF part of the bailout deal. According to the IMF it offered the money at an interest-rate of just over 3% for 4 years and then rising to 4%. This somehow metamorphosed into the funds being borrowed at a fixed-rate of 5.8%!

Ireland needs a change and I hope that her election gives it to her.

[Executive Sadman]

The globo-fascists over at the EU move in to assume complete control, rather than merely control of their budget, laws, immigration and so on?

Thats whatll probably happen.

Wheres Sinn Fein when you need them? Too busy reneging on property deals and getting back in the old markets of drugs, prostitution and intimidation i guess.

[50sQuiff]

I am just perplexed by all of the goings on, not just in Ireland, but around the world.

From what I hear about Ireland, they have a hugely generous benefits system, and tremendous largesse in the public sector. It sounds as if they could balance their budget quite easily if they wanted to.

Paying off the debt though, that is another matter.

No political party though, wants to grasp the nettle, and do the right thing. For me the right thing would be to tell the creditors to get stuffed, balance the budget so there is no need to borrow, prosecute those at the banks for anything that even smells like a dodgy loan and see what happens in court, go after the assets of wrongdoers, and let ordinary borrowers go bankrupt like they can in the UK.

No one in Ireland, or that matter in the Western world, seems to want to face up to this reality, instead they find someone else to borrow more from, and carry on as before. So desperate have things become, that the Irish Central bank have taken to printing some extra Euros to bailout their busted and corrupt banks, to keep these zombies going. Insanity.

I just wonder, if irony of ironies, Sinn Fein get in power in the republic, and do the right thing. Prosecute the bankers, seize their assets, and return them to the creditors of failed banks. Would they do this? Would they also balance the budget, and shun the elite that currently feed from the public sector trough?

And what will our government do? They think that growth will pay the bills, but what if that doesnt happen? Can they overcome normality bias, and deal with the reality of the cancer that are our bankers and lock the bad guys up? Can they cut public sector wages and benefits, and reduce our expenditure on pensions, so that our budget becomes balanced again?

I have little confidence that they can, they talk tough, but smell strong.

Just when are the December PSBR figures out? Does anyone have a calendar of release dates for that most important of figures?

Well-said.

Public Sector borrowing data is released tomorrow. You can find a release calendar on statistics.gov.uk.

[Ruffneck]

was he forced to walk by the EU when they found he was printing extra funny money?

[leicestersq]

was he forced to walk by the EU when they found he was printing extra funny money?

Are you saying that something happened to that chap who was head of the Irish Central bank?

I cant blame him for printing the money, I am sure I would have done the same if I was in his shoes.

I do blame the set up of the Eurozone though, that allowed this to happen. That is unforgiveable imo, and should lead to sackings, and a change of policy to make sure that this doesnt happen unilaterally again.

[Democorruptcy]

Austerity is forced on all countries regardless of how you

vote. No country will be allowed to default and to

be fair the best thing for all of us would be to default.

The elite are robbing our future.

What do you think a fair default should include?

[leicestersq]

What do you think a fair default should include?

Each default will be different. The defaulter needs to take into account the affect on future requests for credit. The less they offer the creditors, the worse will be the terms for borrowing in future. So if the borrower is likely to need credit again at some point, the should make greater efforts to pay what they owe.

Those with no intent to borrow again, can offer far less of a settlement, they had just better be right about their future borrowing expectations.

[I-hate-scumlords]

Can you explain why the EU is seen as the problem?

If Ireland was not part of the EU do you really think the Irish housing bubble would not have occurred? And would the banks have restrained from lending and inflating house prices? The cause of excessive lending was the Fed who lowered interest rates to ZERO in nominal terms and in real terms negative rates. The ECB were the ones fighting that policy. Only and ignoramus would lay the blame on the EU.

The only 'blame' you can reasonably lay at the feet of the EU is it effectively prevents the Irish from sovereign default. So let's say they default.... who carries the loss? You, me, the banks in England that leant them the money?

Something very sinister happened in around 2005. Go figure it out and then start talking about it.

I didnt blame the EU i blame the Irish voter and property entrepreneurs, but the EU are the problem now for Ireland .... but for you to somehow blame America for Irelands troubles is stretching things to the limit, or cant the Irish take responsibility for themselves anymore.

[leicestersq]

Can you explain why the EU is seen as the problem?

If Ireland was not part of the EU do you really think the Irish housing bubble would not have occurred? And would the banks have restrained from lending and inflating house prices? The cause of excessive lending was the Fed who lowered interest rates to ZERO in nominal terms and in real terms negative rates. The ECB were the ones fighting that policy. Only and ignoramus would lay the blame on the EU.

The only 'blame' you can reasonably lay at the feet of the EU is it effectively prevents the Irish from sovereign default. So let's say they default.... who carries the loss? You, me, the banks in England that leant them the money?

Something very sinister happened in around 2005. Go figure it out and then start talking about it.

I too would like to know this very sinister thing that happened in around 2005. The clue is so general, it could be almost anything, and lets face it, is probably something that is either made up, or not so sinister at all.

End the doubt, and tell us what it is. I suspect that we wont get an answer.

[wonderpup]

What I find odd is that the terms of the bailout were not that good- given that the Irish had a very strong position- being too big to fail.

I guess their PM must have been offered a good job somewhere in the EU troughocracy to agree the current deal. What is the going rate for selling out your nation these days?

[Lambie]

What I find odd is that the terms of the bailout were not that good- given that the Irish had a very strong position- being too big to fail.

I guess their PM must have been offered a good job somewhere in the EU troughocracy to agree the current deal. What is the going rate for selling out your nation these days?

an EU pension and a directorate at an investment bank

unless you're Gordon Brown, then you do it for free on principal

[wild card]

This will just be the same article only about Ireland a few months afer the bailout is agreed.

http://www.focus-fen.net/?id=n239965

Brussels. According to EU sources in the European capitals it is already running the preparation on Greece to declare bankruptcy, German newspaper Suddeutsche Zeitung announced.

Various options for action are been considering. One option under consideration is banks "voluntarily" to simplify part of the obligations of Athens, according to sources.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/0,1518,741268,00.html

We need to accept the fact that Greece and Ireland are bankrupt," he says. Fuest believes there are only two ways to bring the crisis back under control: Either the financially strong countries must assume part of the debt of those countries in trouble, or creditors should forgive part of the debt. "But in that sense it would be better if the affected countries begin restructuring on their own."

Edited January 24, 2011 by fixed

[Guest UK Debt Slave]

I didnt blame the EU i blame the Irish voter and property entrepreneurs, but the EU are the problem now for Ireland .... but for you to somehow blame America for Irelands troubles is stretching things to the limit, or cant the Irish take responsibility for themselves anymore.

USD is global reserve currency so cost of borrowing across the world is heavily dictated by Federal Reserve monetary policy

[Democorruptcy]

Each default will be different. The defaulter needs to take into account the affect on future requests for credit. The less they offer the creditors, the worse will be the terms for borrowing in future. So if the borrower is likely to need credit again at some point, the should make greater efforts to pay what they owe.

Those with no intent to borrow again, can offer far less of a settlement, they had just better be right about their future borrowing expectations.

That sounds more like a person defaulting not a government. Won't governments always want to borrow?

[leicestersq]

That sounds more like a person defaulting not a government. Won't governments always want to borrow?

It is perfectly possible for a government not to borrow. Didnt one US President famously clear the national debt, and warned others not to reinistigate it?

You are right though, the tendency is for Politicians to pander to their electorate, and spend more than they collect in taxes because their elecorate are worth it. I think that some countries are about to enter a world, where they just wont be able to borrow at all though, no matter how much they want to and no matter how much their citizens are entitled to that borrowing.

[Democorruptcy]

This will just be the same article only about Ireland a few months afer the bailout is agreed.

Brussels. According to EU sources in the European capitals it is already running the preparation on Greece to declare bankruptcy, German newspaper Suddeutsche Zeitung announced.

Various options for action are been considering. One option under consideration is banks "voluntarily" to simplify part of the obligations of Athens, according to sources.

Is the "simplify part of the obligations" that the banks will just split all their debts into a good and bad bank?

[Stars]

It is perfectly possible for a government not to borrow. Didnt one US President famously clear the national debt, and warned others not to reinistigate it?

You are right though, the tendency is for Politicians to pander to their electorate, and spend more than they collect in taxes because their elecorate are worth it. I think that some countries are about to enter a world, where they just wont be able to borrow at all though, no matter how much they want to and no matter how much their citizens are entitled to that borrowing.

Yes - it's a problem with the incentives in a democracy.

Perhaps government borrowing should be illegal.

[jonb]

Can you explain why the EU is seen as the problem?

If Ireland was not part of the EU do you really think the Irish housing bubble would not have occurred? And would the banks have restrained from lending and inflating house prices? The cause of excessive lending was the Fed who lowered interest rates to ZERO in nominal terms and in real terms negative rates. The ECB were the ones fighting that policy. Only and ignoramus would lay the blame on the EU.

The only 'blame' you can reasonably lay at the feet of the EU is it effectively prevents the Irish from sovereign default. So let's say they default.... who carries the loss? You, me, the banks in England that leant them the money?

Something very sinister happened in around 2005. Go figure it out and then start talking about it.

If Ireland wasn't in the Euro, they could have had higher interest rates which would have stopped or lessened the impact of the bubble. Of course they might not have done so, in which case it would have been Ireland's fault rather than the EU's fault.

In the UK, which didn't join the Euro, interest rates were higher, but not high enough, which meant that the bubble wasn't quite so bad; and we were able to devalue which lessened the impact of the crash.

[I-hate-scumlords]

USD is global reserve currency so cost of borrowing across the world is heavily dictated by Federal Reserve monetary policy

Thats not true, interest rates in theory are guided by inflation of the specific economy to stop it overheating (or if its fukkked) its nowt to do with them there nasty Americans, Ireland couldnt control its rates as its in the Euro and the inflation its economy experienced was ignored as the EU main players didnt know or care.

But to blame the Americans for Irelands problems is stretching it too far .... Bush isnt back again as President is he?

Edited January 25, 2011 by I-hate-scumlords

[billybong]

In fact the banking troughocracy has been so stuffed full of ex politicians (for services rendered) it was bound to come a cropper sooner or later.

[Rare Bear]

Thats not true, interest rates in theory are guided by inflation of the specific economy to stop it overheating (or if its fukkked) its nowt to do with them there nasty Americans, Ireland couldnt control its rates as its in the Euro and the inflation its economy experienced was ignored as the EU main players didnt know or care.

But to blame the Americans for Irelands problems is stretching it too far .... Bush isnt back again as President is he?

The fact is that EU interest rates will be set to suit Germany.