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djm1972

Do You Have A Right To Refuse Non "legal Tender" In Change

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Interesting scenario just came up - I ordered and consumed a drink and a meal, and then asked for the bill - which was £7.99. I offered a £20 Bank of England note, and was given a Scottish £10 as part of the change.

Not wanting to be bothered with the hassle of trying to spend a Scottish £10 note in my local corner shop, I asked for it to be exchanged for a "normal" £10 note; which they were more than happy to do.

However, there are 2 inter-twined legal scenarios here and I'm not sure I can resolve it. They are A ) that of how / when and in what terms you are legally obliged to pay for something you have already had (you are effectively in debt to the restaurant at this point), and B ), their acceptance of your tender - taking them in debt to you.

Would I be along the right lines in thinking that a mutual stand-off still occurs; you are in debt to the restaurant; who can demand payment of that debt from you in legal tender, but at the same time, whatever they offer you in change (provided they accept your tender of course) must also be in legal tender; otherwise you have every and the same right to refuse that...?

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Interesting scenario just came up - I ordered and consumed a drink and a meal, and then asked for the bill - which was £7.99. I offered a £20 Bank of England note, and was given a Scottish £10 as part of the change.

Not wanting to be bothered with the hassle of trying to spend a Scottish £10 note in my local corner shop, I asked for it to be exchanged for a "normal" £10 note; which they were more than happy to do.

However, there are 2 inter-twined legal scenarios here and I'm not sure I can resolve it. They are A ) that of how / when and in what terms you are legally obliged to pay for something you have already had (you are effectively in debt to the restaurant at this point), and B ), their acceptance of your tender - taking them in debt to you.

Would I be along the right lines in thinking that a mutual stand-off still occurs; you are in debt to the restaurant; who can demand payment of that debt from you in legal tender, but at the same time, whatever they offer you in change (provided they accept your tender of course) must also be in legal tender; otherwise you have every and the same right to refuse that...?

You would do. Legal tender is a phrase which refers to what you can offer to settle a debt which cannot be refused. If you offer something which is not legal tender then it can be refused and you can be pursued for the debt, to court if necessary.

The situation is different if this had happened in Scotland. In actual fact there is no bank note which is legal tender in Scotland - not even Scottish ones - however, Scots law contains a provision that you cannot refuse any reasonable means of settling a debt.

I'm not sure if Scottish notes aren't legal tender in England though. They may be.

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You would do. Legal tender is a phrase which refers to what you can offer to settle a debt which cannot be refused. If you offer something which is not legal tender then it can be refused and you can be pursued for the debt, to court if necessary.

The situation is different if this had happened in Scotland. In actual fact there is no bank note which is legal tender in Scotland - not even Scottish ones - however, Scots law contains a provision that you cannot refuse any reasonable means of settling a debt.

I'm not sure if Scottish notes aren't legal tender in England though. They may be.

Thanks - that's what I thought.

There is no denomination of "Scottish" bank notes that is classified as "legal tender", but that's kind of a side-issue, you could substitute a volume of horse manure for "Scottish bank note" for the purposes of the question!

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Interesting scenario just came up - I ordered and consumed a drink and a meal, and then asked for the bill - which was £7.99. I offered a £20 Bank of England note, and was given a Scottish £10 as part of the change.

Not wanting to be bothered with the hassle of trying to spend a Scottish £10 note in my local corner shop, I asked for it to be exchanged for a "normal" £10 note; which they were more than happy to do.

However, there are 2 inter-twined legal scenarios here and I'm not sure I can resolve it. They are A ) that of how / when and in what terms you are legally obliged to pay for something you have already had (you are effectively in debt to the restaurant at this point), and B ), their acceptance of your tender - taking them in debt to you.

Would I be along the right lines in thinking that a mutual stand-off still occurs; you are in debt to the restaurant; who can demand payment of that debt from you in legal tender, but at the same time, whatever they offer you in change (provided they accept your tender of course) must also be in legal tender; otherwise you have every and the same right to refuse that...?

You should have offered eight sovereigns - they're legal tender with a value of £1 each. That'll confused the fiat currency loons.

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I don't think that change *has* to be offered, although I suspect that needs to be known in advance; that's why automatic vending machines (or car park ticket machines) aren't breaking the law if they don't give you any.

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Interesting scenario just came up - I ordered and consumed a drink and a meal, and then asked for the bill - which was £7.99. I offered a £20 Bank of England note, and was given a Scottish £10 as part of the change.

Not wanting to be bothered with the hassle of trying to spend a Scottish £10 note in my local corner shop, I asked for it to be exchanged for a "normal" £10 note; which they were more than happy to do.

However, there are 2 inter-twined legal scenarios here and I'm not sure I can resolve it. They are A ) that of how / when and in what terms you are legally obliged to pay for something you have already had (you are effectively in debt to the restaurant at this point), and B ), their acceptance of your tender - taking them in debt to you.

Would I be along the right lines in thinking that a mutual stand-off still occurs; you are in debt to the restaurant; who can demand payment of that debt from you in legal tender, but at the same time, whatever they offer you in change (provided they accept your tender of course) must also be in legal tender; otherwise you have every and the same right to refuse that...?

You have a contract with the restaurant and unless you dispute the amount for whatever reason (e.g. poor quality) then you are in debt to them. If you offer legal tender in settlement then they are obliged to take it, they are also obliged to offer change in legal tender. If they don't give change then they are in debt to you.

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You have a contract with the restaurant and unless you dispute the amount for whatever reason (e.g. poor quality) then you are in debt to them. If you offer legal tender in settlement then they are obliged to take it, they are also obliged to offer change in legal tender. If they don't give change then they are in debt to you.

Proffered an 'old' ten pound note in a well known retail chain the other day and was told it wasn't legal tender anymore. girl in next door newsagent had no problem taking it however (think it was the last series of Bank of England tenners, the 'johnmc enroe' edition.) Been away from UK for a while so had a few old issue tenners and twenties. went to a bank and post office to settle issue and was told in both places that they didn't think Bank of England notes ever ceased being legal tender regardless of age. Also wondering what position in Britain is re Irish Sterling: i.e. Notes issued by Bank of Ireland, Ulster Bank, Northern Bank etc. in Ulster. Saw on news recently where well known Ulster Unionist politician quite miffed when a prominent newsagent at Heathrow refused to accept such money from him.

While I'm at it, also wondering about how legal Manx and Channel Island coins are in Britain....

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You have a contract with the restaurant and unless you dispute the amount for whatever reason (e.g. poor quality) then you are in debt to them. If you offer legal tender in settlement then they are obliged to take it, they are also obliged to offer change in legal tender. If they don't give change then they are in debt to you.

A poster further up was right. You are not obliged to offer change unless it was a term of the contract (perhaps an impled one) to begin with. If you cannot offer the exact amount then the other party has the right to refuse it. If the other party has agreed to give change then he is in debt to you.

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Proffered an 'old' ten pound note in a well known retail chain the other day and was told it wasn't legal tender anymore. girl in next door newsagent had no problem taking it however (think it was the last series of Bank of England tenners, the 'johnmc enroe' edition.) Been away from UK for a while so had a few old issue tenners and twenties. went to a bank and post office to settle issue and was told in both places that they didn't think Bank of England notes ever ceased being legal tender regardless of age. Also wondering what position in Britain is re Irish Sterling: i.e. Notes issued by Bank of Ireland, Ulster Bank, Northern Bank etc. in Ulster. Saw on news recently where well known Ulster Unionist politician quite miffed when a prominent newsagent at Heathrow refused to accept such money from him.

While I'm at it, also wondering about how legal Manx and Channel Island coins are in Britain....

Notes do cease to be legal tender (I think) but the BoE is still contractually bound to accept them.

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You would do. Legal tender is a phrase which refers to what you can offer to settle a debt which cannot be refused. If you offer something which is not legal tender then it can be refused and you can be pursued for the debt, to court if necessary.

The situation is different if this had happened in Scotland. In actual fact there is no bank note which is legal tender in Scotland - not even Scottish ones - however, Scots law contains a provision that you cannot refuse any reasonable means of settling a debt.

I'm not sure if Scottish notes aren't legal tender in England though. They may be.

They are not legal tender. They are legal currency though, whereas for example Lehman Brothers notes would not be.

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Ok, summary of <HPC> so far: no one has a clue :)

Corrected for accuracy.

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Proffered an 'old' ten pound note in a well known retail chain the other day and was told it wasn't legal tender anymore. girl in next door newsagent had no problem taking it however (think it was the last series of Bank of England tenners, the 'johnmc enroe' edition.) Been away from UK for a while so had a few old issue tenners and twenties. went to a bank and post office to settle issue and was told in both places that they didn't think Bank of England notes ever ceased being legal tender regardless of age. Also wondering what position in Britain is re Irish Sterling: i.e. Notes issued by Bank of Ireland, Ulster Bank, Northern Bank etc. in Ulster. Saw on news recently where well known Ulster Unionist politician quite miffed when a prominent newsagent at Heathrow refused to accept such money from him.

While I'm at it, also wondering about how legal Manx and Channel Island coins are in Britain....

Old bank of England notes do cease to be legal tender, however their promise to pay the bearer on demand is still valid, and some people will accept them on the basis that the Bank of England will pay up.

Nothern Irish notes are allowed to be used in England as legal currency, but like Scottish ones they are not legal tender, and you don't have to accept them if you don't want to.

The Isle of Man and Channel Islands are separate countries with their own currencies, which just happened to be pegged to Sterling.

Old Republic of Ireland pounds are a separate currency which was not pegged to Sterling since 1979. They are not legal currency anywhere, but you can convert them to Euros at the rate of €1.2697 per £.

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  • 259 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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