Without Money Reform, Say Good Bye To The Planet

[Stars]

I'm currently in the process of buying 17 acres with my str fund.

There is no way I am going to buy back into a lifetime of debt for a box of bricks

No way

Popular land speculation is how we ended up in this pickle in the first place. Yet, despite this, you somehow manage to model a new act of land speculation as getting off the merry-go-round and reforming yourself. You are just looking for another freebie, another victim to gouge; but it is the freebies and gouging that has caused the problems

[Guest Skinty]

Popular land speculation is how we ended up in this pickle in the first place. Yet, despite this, you somehow manage to model a new act of land speculation as getting off the merry-go-round and reforming yourself. You are just looking for another freebie, another victim to gouge; but it is the freebies and gouging that has caused the problems

Everybody looks out for themselves. That's the way it has always been and that's the way it always will be.

That's different from being a parasite and living off the work of others though, which is the main problem of the UK and why it is failing.

I'd buy land if I had any money and I'd work it. And when I do eventually get some money, that's what I plan to do.

[Guest Skinty]

Exactly , thats what i've been trying to tell the climate change loons.The fact we have already passed the so called peak oil has not been taken into account by these 'scientists' predicting that we will have tropical jungles in Greenland in 100 years.

Except isn't climate change supposed to start the thawing out of the methane clathrate deposits which will start a positive feedback cycle which will continue even if we do not burn any more oil?

[Guest Skinty]

Best buy yourself a tiny island off the coast of Scotland and become a proper hermit.

I always longed for my own island when I was a child and to do exactly that.

Although now I realise that it's more difficult to grow crops on an island and there are enough remote places in the highlands of Scotland which could provide your essential needs. I have occasionally seen houses on rightmove which are only accessible by boat for example.

Edited January 4, 2010 by Skinty

[lowrentyieldmakessense(honest!)]

I always longed for my own island when I was a child and to do exactly that.

Although now I realise that it's more difficult to grow crops on an island and there are enough remote places in the highlands of Scotland which could provide your essential needs. I have occasionally seen houses on rightmove which are only accessible by boat for example.

[wren]

Popular land speculation is how we ended up in this pickle in the first place. Yet, despite this, you somehow manage to model a new act of land speculation as getting off the merry-go-round and reforming yourself. You are just looking for another freebie, another victim to gouge; but it is the freebies and gouging that has caused the problems

I think Steve is looking for some sort of longer term economic stability.

Wise man. If I lived in the UK I might look for people like him to form some sort of eco-hamlet community. And volunteer for his militia and as veggie-plot nightwatchman (all within the law of course)

[denna]

One thing is for sure, though. No man (or woman) is an island. We stand as self-sufficient, small, prepared communities or we fall alone. Notwithstanding that, in terms of helping yourself as an individual as much as possible, get skilled up in making-do-and-mending key technologies. These skills will become ever more in demand in the years ahead.

Good luck to you Denna. We are all going to need lots of it.

Oh, and did I mention, get some land.....

Community is the key. Anyone would rob a stranger before a friend.

ok, Im short on the personally owned land side, however, I am a bit of a social person and know all the local muscle, who would certainly ensure that nobody will protest when we start pick axing the car parks.

Certainly you can prepare people without them knowing, for example I've persuded a number of mates to grow their own vegetables etc, just by doing it myself and setting an example and waffling on about how to do this and that. They now have some basic idea about food production. Also encouraged friends to get wood burners and stock up on tools etc. At least I know where to go if heating becomes problematic. (Renting, but got a woodburner in the waiting to slap up if needs be). Never let on that anything is more than a passing interest, really other people will only ever see you as a loon screaming we're doomed, and you risk becoming a bore.

It sounds really mean, but I quickly ditch friendships with people who are not in walking distance, unless they have serious potential uses. Tight knit and local, make sure you become a regular down your local boozer, be 'interested' in the other drinkers. The rough round the edges 'salt of the earth' types are the practical friends you need. Find out their skills, and then befriend, simple.

What really scares me though, is the lack of antibiotics and medicine, really have not got the first idea how to make those. Herbal medicine does not do the job. Made friends with a local veterinary nurse though, so at least we can get hold of pet antibiotics at will, but in time these will run out too. Just would feel alot safer if I was able to make them.

Also, how do we know when law has passed into the hands of the people, and state control has failed? How bad will the suffering have to get before restrictive rules/laws are unenforced in Britain? Just wondering if the UK is more like Cuba, or North Korea?

[MississippiJohnHurt]

What really scares me though, is the lack of antibiotics and medicine, really have not got the first idea how to make those. Herbal medicine does not do the job. Made friends with a local veterinary nurse though, so at least we can get hold of pet antibiotics at will, but in time these will run out too. Just would feel alot safer if I was able to make them.

You'd feel safer if you could take some home made antibiotics?

And have you really ditched friends that live outside walking distance because they'd be no use in a state breakdown?

[Harry Sacks]

Herbal medicine does not do the job.

I'll take your word for that .

[Guest Steve Cook]

Community is the key. Anyone would rob a stranger before a friend.

ok, Im short on the personally owned land side, however, I am a bit of a social person and know all the local muscle, who would certainly ensure that nobody will protest when we start pick axing the car parks.

Certainly you can prepare people without them knowing, for example I've persuded a number of mates to grow their own vegetables etc, just by doing it myself and setting an example and waffling on about how to do this and that. They now have some basic idea about food production. Also encouraged friends to get wood burners and stock up on tools etc. At least I know where to go if heating becomes problematic. (Renting, but got a woodburner in the waiting to slap up if needs be). Never let on that anything is more than a passing interest, really other people will only ever see you as a loon screaming we're doomed, and you risk becoming a bore.

It sounds really mean, but I quickly ditch friendships with people who are not in walking distance, unless they have serious potential uses. Tight knit and local, make sure you become a regular down your local boozer, be 'interested' in the other drinkers. The rough round the edges 'salt of the earth' types are the practical friends you need. Find out their skills, and then befriend, simple.

What really scares me though, is the lack of antibiotics and medicine, really have not got the first idea how to make those. Herbal medicine does not do the job. Made friends with a local veterinary nurse though, so at least we can get hold of pet antibiotics at will, but in time these will run out too. Just would feel alot safer if I was able to make them.

Also, how do we know when law has passed into the hands of the people, and state control has failed? How bad will the suffering have to get before restrictive rules/laws are unenforced in Britain? Just wondering if the UK is more like Cuba, or North Korea?

Apparently, Roman soldiers used to carry mouldy bread in their provisions in case they got injured. They discovered that, if used as a poltice, it would keep infection down and speed up healing. It is highly likely that the mould contained an antibiotic bacteria.

[Stars]

Everybody looks out for themselves. That's the way it has always been and that's the way it always will be.

That's different from being a parasite and living off the work of others though, which is the main problem of the UK and why it is failing.

The complication here is that buying land and gaining its future price is a form of parasitism (something gained for nothing added) - and you can't buy land without gaining its future price.

It's just hilarious to see people saying that buying up land will solve our problems. I do hope the irony isn't completely lost on you

I'd buy land if I had any money and I'd work it. And when I do eventually get some money, that's what I plan to do.

Sure. Unfortunately the system incorporates a parasitism into this notionaly honest act

Edited January 4, 2010 by Stars

[Alibear]

If you can't get land and have no time to suddenly grow crops because the collapse happens too quick - why not buy/nick a sailing boat and leg it. Its easier to defend and if the land inhabitants are getting a bit too troublesome you just sail somewhere else and trade fish caught for other essential supplies. Its just a thought.

[Authoritarian]

The ignorance sourounding this subject is remarkable!

There is no resource scaricty and nor will there ever be. The world has a tremendius carrying capacity and we are nowhere near the limit.

We dont even use any resource, we just move atoms about. We mine iron ore and turn it into steel which then rusts back into iron ore over a few hundred years. Ashes to ashes dust to dust. The earth recycles everything.

The only scarcity we will see is those induced by government.

Its refreshing to see somebody talking sense for a change.

Almost all our current problems can have their roots traced back to government mismanagement of the economy. Professionals such as plumbers and dentists charge way over their odds for their services because over regulation has shut people out from doing these jobs, it keeps wages high -for those that qualified years ago when it was cheaper and easier- and competition low.

The crazy amount of taxes too amounts to nothing more than the institutional criminalisation of those that want to work for a living. Setting up a business is too expensive in the UK and too risky which artificially crowds out competition and gives an unfair edge to those already established in the market place. This is inflationary.

The worst aspect of British public policy though surrounds the housing market. The scarcity we're currently seeing is a direct result of allowing surplus value to build up in the land underneth peoples homes, this is the economic equivalent of a great big neon sign saying "thieves, help yourself" and pointing to a swag bag. Houses become more valuable at the start of the cycle because they represent greater economic opportunity and this encourages the misallocation of capital as funds get diverted into the booming housing market. Debts increase without any increase in productive capacity and as more money gets drawn one way or another into paying off these costs scarcity rears its ugly head again as business begins to collapse. This is entirely avoidable.

Edited January 4, 2010 by chefdave

[Guest Skinty]

The complication here is that buying land and gaining its future price is a form of parasitism (something gained for nothing added) - and you can't buy land without gaining its future price.

The price of it in the future is only relevant if you sell it. If you don't plan on selling it then you aren't being a parasite.

Edited January 4, 2010 by Skinty

[buyerbeware]

without money reform, say good bye to the planet.

maybe i'm nuts but everywhere around me i see the end game being played out, a race to the bottom as we play the game of last man standing. How can bankers and estate agents pimp BAU when all the above is clearly on the radar?

We could all just share a bit.

[denna]

You'd feel safer if you could take some home made antibiotics?

And have you really ditched friends that live outside walking distance because they'd be no use in a state breakdown?

No I have found no way of even improvising antibiotics, but I consider the prospect of a life without them to be rather more risk intense than is preferable and would be relived to know that it was possible to manufacture them without needing high tech Laboritories and oil.

And yes it is mean but I would never spend time or effort seeing anybody long distance at the expense of friends that are close by.

[Guest Steve Cook]

The complication here is that buying land and gaining its future price is a form of parasitism (something gained for nothing added) - and you can't buy land without gaining its future price.

It's just hilarious to see people saying that buying up land will solve our problems. I do hope the irony isn't completely lost on you

Sure. Unfortunately the system incorporates a parasitism into this notionaly honest act

Buying land won't solve our problems. It'll just solve mine.

You're on your own pal....

Edited January 4, 2010 by Steve Cook

[MississippiJohnHurt]

No I have found no way of even improvising antibiotics, but I consider the prospect of a life without them to be rather more risk intense than is preferable and would be relived to know that it was possible to manufacture them without needing high tech Laboritories and oil.

And yes it is mean but I would never spend time or effort seeing anybody long distance at the expense of friends that are close by.

WIsh I could find the same for insulin.

As for the rest of it...if things ever got that bad the vast majority would be unprepared, so the preparations of a few would be absorbed and equalised in a very short time? The people who would come out on top would be those with the biggest guns.

[Guest Steve Cook]

WIsh I could find the same for insulin.

As for the rest of it...if things ever got that bad the vast majority would be unprepared, so the preparations of a few would be absorbed and equalised in a very short time? The people who would come out on top would be those with the biggest guns.

And/or the most coherent and tight communities.

We have all been brainwashed with all of this every man for himself corporate capitalist shite. A world of absolute atomised, every-man-for-himself anarchy lasts for the brief moment betwen power shifts. Sure enough, as you say, the ones with the biggest guns get to run the show, as ever it was. So what. The trick is to either be one of the ones who have the power, be part of a group that have the power. Or provide a services to the ones with the power. What does the above mean in world of diminishing resources? It means learn essential meke-do-and-mend skills. It measn getting to know your neighbours to get a real idea of what you are actually worth. For myself, this also includes buying land. For many, it will not because of the cost. However, this doesn't mean that those without land in the years to come will be f*cked. However, a lot will be because they will possess neither resources nor skills

Edited January 4, 2010 by Steve Cook

[Stars]

Buying land won't solve our problems. It'll just solve mine.

You're on your own pal....

Yep - we are going to have to go round this merry-go-round a few more times

[Guest Steve Cook]

Yep - we are going to have to go round this merry-go-round a few more times

bleeding commies..I sh*t em...

[Stars]

bleeding commies..I sh*t em...

commies?

nothing particularly communist about highlighting state backed parasitism

Edited January 4, 2010 by Stars

[Guest Steve Cook]

commies?

nothing particularly communist about highlighting state backed parasitism

"free-market capitalism"...."communism"....(substitute your ism of preference here)......

Same sh*t, different day.

All of them are b*llocks. A series of sick jokes for a time that is now passing.

But, of course, your b*llocks is special isn't it.....

[denna]

Apparently, Roman soldiers used to carry mouldy bread in their provisions in case they got injured. They discovered that, if used as a poltice, it would keep infection down and speed up healing. It is highly likely that the mould contained an antibiotic bacteria.

The mould you are wanting is Penicillium. This is the type of mould from which penicillin, the antibiotic, was first isolated.

Penicillium molds can be green, grey or white, but only a particular type makes actual penicillin when it grows, and other types make toxic waste products. The one that makes the penicillin is actually quite rare, so if you eat mouldy bread you could be playing russian roulette with... erm.. mould.

Really you need microscopes to make sure of the culture you have on your bread, then the necessary equipment to extract the by-product of penicillin that the rare mould produces.

[Guest Skinty]

Buying land won't solve our problems. It'll just solve mine.

Actually I disagree. I'd say that it is a responsible thing to do.

If you don't buy the land then it will either go unused or be used by some farmer relying on unsustainable oil based methods rather than used in a sustainable way.

If you establish a small-holding, not only are you not competing for the remaining resources with everyone else from the city, but you are actually providing more goods that people will need. After all, you always end up with more food than you want from a successful crop that can be traded for other goods from people without their own land.

We need more small-holdings, allotments and crofts and to a greater or lesser degree the governments know this. For example in Scotland, croft land and property is much cheaper to buy but has to be used for its intended purpose. And if it goes un-used then the Crofter's commission can insist that it is re-let.

http://www.solicitors-scotland.com/ls-crofting.asp