Spikey1

Im sorry I think I am missing something! This is the main discussion forum on house prices is it? or is it the site improvements forum...

Build all you like I dont care (hang on I think I already said this many many pages ago!!) House Prices however are not high because of shortage of supply and neither is rent. Its because money supply is high and credit is cheap! I am shocked this thread continues when Cells jumped in his hole 5 pages ago I think!

I wanted my mate Cells to comment on this one but you have made my point. The random statement that rents are high are subjective and do not mean bugger all. In my area rents are not "high" they are affordable as I have already detailed in previous posts and rents are no higher now then 10yrs (or more) ago! If Cells can say rents are high with no evidence apart from subjective reasoning then rents are low and they reduced over 50% of the past 10 quarterly figures. There is no shortage of houses there is a shortage of affordable homes and that is changing as we speak!

Rents are low... Why is this if there is a shortage of supply. Discuss.

Actually you said that rents were dropping in price (see your link..!) Your whole argument circles around the fact that rental costs are an indication of supply and that they have been increasing due to lack of supply. If they were in declining in over 50% of quarters since 2002.... that seems to show based on your hypothesis that supply is balanced... I think that this has come to an end for me as you have blown your whole theory out the water so im signing off to this thread and wish you well trying to dig out of your hole!

So we have less of a shortage than 20 yrs ago... when house prices were crashing and new builds reduced to 0 Happy days my case is closed and you indeed are a legend!

I think they will decline at the start and then as the BTL amatuers off load then the prices will pick up again (as my theory suggests). Its funny how you seem to think that there is a housing shortage this time but you use data from nearly 20yrs ago as evidence... Does that mean we were suffering a shortage 20 yrs ago? Oh and if we are in a shortage how come rent is declining in 2006 - 2007.... that is what u call an own goal

Do you think he tried to eat it too

Well there are so many variables that its not so cut and dry but I will give you some straight logic on this. Renting used to be more expensive then buying. This meant that buying a property was the choice of many and renting was only for those who were just starting out, living in the city or migrating around the country with work. Now we are in a situation whereby owning a house is no longer an option for many. They are forced to rent which creates demand for lettings and pushes up the cost of rentals. This is made even worse by the fact that Mr Landlord is trying to get the maximum return for his property as he needs to cover his high mortgage costs. This means that renting costs more but is still cheaper then buying because houses are so over priced by cheap credit...... Then.. one cold and stormy night the cheap credit is swept away!!! This means that house prices begin to fall as the market is no longer supported by sheeple borrowing more and more! This can hit Mr Landlord in several ways. Firstly he might think.. oh bugger! My rental property is going down in price I have to bail out a.s.a.p or he could start to find that the people who were renting his property are now looking to buy because the housing market has come down in price making renting more expensive! This would mean that he either sells his property helping to fuel the decline in prices or.... he reduces rent to make rental more attractive. But the bad thing with this current situation for Mr Landlord is that there is a glut of rental in the UK and its only being supported because there are those who can not get on the market! If and when they start to do this Mr Landlord will have to sell or (if he can afford to)... reduce the rents. He does have the other option of sitting out the glut and once the inexperianced landlords have cleared off rentals will stabalise and will be supported by the same people mentioned at the start of my logical argument..... Mr S.. Taking a bow ...... and off for a pint.. I thank you!

Mr Landlord would try to get £1300 and be unsuccessful. This would lead to him reducing rent making rent cheaper then buying (sound familiar? ) He would then rent it at a lower level although this level would be higher than it should because the tennant has stretched themselves to rent the property.... Not unlike the landlord stretching himself to buy the property in the first place..... This has nothing to do with shortage of supply. This is down to cheap credit driving up property prices. Ok I will explain it to you.... Mr Landlord would try to get £1300 and be unsuccessful. This would lead to him reducing rent making rent cheaper then buying (sound familiar? ) He would then rent it at a lower level although this level would be higher than it should because the tennant has stretched themselves to rent the property Not unlike the landlord stretching himself to buy the property in the first place..... I think that makes perfect sense unless you are just being a pedant! You question as to why a tennant would stretch himself... Well thats because they can afford it. If they can afford it then they will rent it! How you can say that cheap credit does not increase rental costs is beyond me! Work it out in your head and im sure you will see where your 100% certainty is a tad flawed. Oh just so you know I saw a homeless dude today! Its ok though I bought a big issue from him and told him that he will find a home to rent soon!

So the supply of cheap credit has increased the burden on tennants based on asking prices... And the tennants have increased payments based on their affordability! Surely if there was a shortage of housing rents would be a lot higher because landlords can demand what they like as no one will have a choice! That would mean that renting would be more expensive the buying.... Im quite honoured that you are ignoring me.. I must really be getting on your goat debunking every thing you say... Guess its time you called me stupid!

I guess you didnt want to reply to my post because I debunked every bit of your very weak argument! Sooo I will debunk this! Mr Landlord would try to get £1300 and be unsuccessful. This would lead to him reducing rent making rent cheaper then buying (sound familiar? ) He would then rent it at a lower level although this level would be higher than it should because the tennant has stretched themselves to rent the property.... Not unlike the landlord stretching himself to buy the property in the first place..... This has nothing to do with shortage of supply. This is down to cheap credit driving up property prices. Oh and I think you need to be reminded... Calling someone who doesnt agree with you stupid makes you a single minded ignorant fool and takes away even the slightest point you may have (and its very slight)

Totally agree! He is stood talking about unclaimed money from accounts even has someone in to discuss this important issue with! Nothing about the stock exchange that could suffer a huge crash today based on Fridays closing plummet! Might just go and fill out one of these forms though and see if I have some thousands in a lost account..

I think I have already given you rental costs in my experiance and it shows that rents are not 50%... In fact they are closer to 25%! If thre is a shortage of housing there wouldnt be enough housing to support the population! Which im not seeing! - Smaller houses is a lame argument. Based on that the UK has been in a housing shortage for years and years! - Sharing doesnt make sense either especially using your point that housing is in short supply because more people are single occupiers! make your mind up There is not a shortage of housing! There is a limited supply due to an increase in cost of housing driven by cheap credit! Rental costs are driven by the abililty of the tenant to pay and the demands on the landlord to cover his/her costs. The pressure on the landlords have increased due to THE RISING COST OF HOUSING which means rents have increased although not as much as the cost of housing because the pressure of the tenants affordability has pushed back. THIS IS WHY RENTING IS CHEAPER THAN BUYING BUT IS MORE EXPENSIVE THAN EXPERIANCED BEFORE IN SOME AREAS. If houses are not built over time then there will be a shortage. Right now there is NOT A SHORTAGE!

Dont disagree with you there. Doesnt mean there is a shortage of houses though..

You said that there is a lack of housing causing supply issues and driving up costs. I am simply stating that I dont think that is the case and there is sufficent housing for the current population. If there was a lack of housing then there would be no homes available on the market as they would be snapped up as soon as they became available. I dont see this happening therefore I dont think housing supply is an issue as you seem to think it is. I dont have an issue with more houses being built. I do have issue with the supply of houses being used as an excuse as to why housing is expensive in the UK. Houses are expensive because of cheap credit and this will change over the coming year(s) as this credit dries up. Your explanation as to why lack of housing would not cause more homeless is flawed. If the supply is at such a point that its effecting the cost then it would mean that only the more affluent would be able to afford these homes. That would mean that the not so affluent would be without housing and they would be homeless... unless you could tell me what happens to those who can not afford to rent because prices are rising? Saying that I dont want cheaper rents or cheaper council tax is a bit daft! Its basic economics that rent will be controlled by the ability of the tennant to pay. If people can not pay then the landlord will not let the property... unless they can let at a higher cost and those that cant afford that level will be left without a home.... which takes me back to my last paragraph. I want to pay as little as I can for everything like everybody else. Unfortunatly there is also the drive from businesses to charge as much as they can. This causes a balance and if that balance starts to collapse you get riots especially when it comes to essential services like housing and untilities!

You still don’t understand why there are not hordes of homeless? I give up, your just to ignorant Nice insult.. Still isnt helping your argument! If you want more physical proof of lack of supply • the thousands of immigrants sleeping in parks, read up about the recent hyde park immigrants, sleeping in tents. They are not in the official hordes of homeless figures are they Nope.. They are also illegal immigrants that earn less than minimum wage and do not rent housing because they can not find a landlord! • look at that recent documentary about, sheds with beds. Thousands of immigrants and natives being forced to rent out the sheds of properties to live in because rents are so expensive. See previous statement! Why are immigrants unable to rent a home but UK nationals are? Because UK nationals are not illegal! • look at students, they are forced to use every single room in a house as a bedroom, you hardly see living rooms, they are bedrooms now to save on rent because it is so expensive. Also look at the number of students who share a room with one or even two others!This is not new this is student life! They dont work for christsake! or if they do they work very little • Look at your local town/city, if you earned the average wage would you conferrable be able to rent a decent home? Yes! I rent for £400 a month - its a 1 bedroom flat with seperate livingroom,bathroom, kitchen. A three bed in my area costs around £550 - £600. Again easily affordable when u add on the childbenefit, tax credit etc that an average earner with 2 kids would get • look at the ever increasing marrage failures, splitting up one family into two properties. Showing demand is increasing (which means supply relative to demand is decreasing) Funny I read on this forum a few months ago that single home occupancy was on the decrease. • look at the ever increasing student population, before less went to university and lived at home, now they rent a place Didnt you already use the student example.. and arent student numbers dropping due to the stupid amount of debt the incurr? • look at the number of immigrants and new babies, the amount of housing built is not enough to hose them. Baby rates have been significantly lower than the baby boom era and just recently have begun to pick up again! This is nothing new and not so severe we are all doomed to share ensuites! As for immigrants.. yes I can agree with you that they are putting pressure on our housing but they are not going to be here for long in the scheme of things and are doing everything to save money meaning that they live in sheds, 3 in a room etc which puts less burden on housing (this is through choice though and not necessity!)

Good point. Im looking forward to reading an opposing opinion from someone who can actually defend banks who charge for costs that they do not incurr. Something asides from .. we dont want to pay charges for our accounts so we are happy for other bank customers being exploited to cover our costs. would be good. (Im not expecting much more than sarcastic comments about people sides splitting or the similar.. or maybe my grammer will be questioned.. or maybe my age.... education... God I know I will of missed something )

Glad to see you have a lot to add to your view point. I guess I am assuming that those who are so perfect must have financial wealth not to care about the charges... Either that or they are too stupid to realise the injustice of them

I guess I did.... Im just off to read about all the families having to live in one room because there are no houses anywhere else to rent/buy... I myself can bear witness to having to live with my parents for years until they built a block of flats down the road. I had to put my name in a hat but luckily it was pulled and I got a corner of the main bedroom and even have onsuite that I only share with 2 others..

Some here are missing the point and I will try and explain it to them one more time! £30 is not the true cost that a bank incurrs when dealing with an account which has insufficient funds when a DD is presented. This charge is illegal and is exploiting a situation! This is just one example of a bank charge that is illegal. Then if that charge is applied to an account making that account go overdrawn another £30 charge can be applied... This means that someone who by the situation he is in does not have any money is being charged £60 for an oversight! This charge and millions of others are applied each day to individuals and are illegal in the eyes of the law and just because this exploitation has enabled banks to give free banking to others this does not mean that those who are so perfect as to never suffered from charges are subsidising others. THERE IS NOTHING TO SUBSIDISE BECAUSE THE CHARGES ARE NOT PROPORTIONATE TO THE COSTS INCURRED! Sorry for shouting but im hoping that those that are so great and perfect might understand it if its in big writing! This reminds me of taxing people to buy cigarettes and using that money to help support the NHS and then saying that non smokers are subsidising the health issues of smokers.... How blinkered are people on here!!! I thought this was a site of enlightened individuals!

I still dont get this flawed logic of less houses means higher cost but not homeless.... Although some potential home owners may stay with families or share accomodation with friends this would not be enough to hide the thousands and thousands of people who are homeless... and if there are not thousands of homeless then there is not a shortage of supply! Truffles are a limited resource and therefore are very expensive... and only a few get to enjoy them.... they are a limited resource and very expensive but everyone gets a bite! That logic really does make no sense! Oh and I have said on my previous post that renting is cheaper then owning a property. This is not the norm and this proves that there is a greater supply then there is demand.

Sooooo there is a place for them to live but they cant afford it! Thanks for backing me up that credit supply is the main issue here! Rent is only inflated by the btl brigade also having access to cheap credit and then driving up rents to boot! As these morons need to cover the cost of their mortgage! Funny thing is that you can rent for far cheaper then buying at the moment because there are far more houses available to rent... because there is not a shortage!!

Im sorry but your IQ seems a little lacking too! If there is a shortage of housing which is pushing up prices because of a lack of supply then those less fortunate will have to go without housing... This would mean they would be HOMELESS (otherwise where are they going to live?!).... so... where are they! and why is supply of houses on the market increasing? The issue is not shortage of houses but excessive credit availability leading to higher house prices being met by those who do not have the sense to say sod off im not paying that! This is why house prices will crash! because once the credit supply tightens (as it is now!) and people are unable to continue paying such high prices they will come down! Simple really! If you cant understand this then dont post further on this particular thread since your IQ is far too low to have a meaningful discussion on a topic that is not particularly hard to understand...