debtlessmanc

Yes indeed, what i am saying is that an asymmetric visa system were the uk recruits what it needs, will work - after all statistically uk people are not getting jobs on the continent in any numbers certainly not low skilled ones. That only leaves the trade with the EU that is a problem for the uk. contrast that with many states (eg vizigrad) were being able to get a job in other states is The main attraction of membership for the voters.

No I do not think that, people voted leave and we are leaving, Those who wanted to stop this should have thought about these things more, perhaps something could have been done, not sure what mind within the rules. That is why my suggestion is essentially "do as the others do" and be protectionist within the rules. as to corruption, a rather flattering to the UK report from the commission:- https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26014387

i guess it is"your eliteness" that enables you to do this

Well those figures (second i quoted) are known to be wrong now anyway. Also a comparison with eg luxembourg is pretty silly as those people are probably largely commuters. But still you are right the uk is not a particular Outlier on that graph. However, you ignored the first one. The number of uk people of working age on the continent is the smallest fraction of any state and is actaully DECLINING. Its tiny, probably around 1/10th of the number if EU citizens in the UK. This is the relevent one, personally i dont see the number if EU migrants as a problem, the uk has certainly benefited in many ways. However, when trying to understand why uk citizens worry about this migration the first graph makes sense of it. Its is not reciprocated, if the average uk family could tell stories of how cousin so and so, or their nephew or niece was earning good money in Paris Berlin or Rome, the influx would be less of a concern to people. Thats not happening, Why, well standard remainer thetoric is that it is a “skills shortage”. Nonesense, there are two reaons:- Firstly Skilled British People emigrate to the anglosphere. I studied for my degree in the 1980’s. Thinking about it i am still in contact with 10 of my peers who ended up profs abroads 2 in NZ 2 in Eire 2 in Canada 2 in the US 2 in Australia not a single on on the continent next door. Not ONE secondly. Attitude to job recruitment. Most good public sector jobs on the continent are simply not open to non-nationals. Officially they are but language tests and other tools as well as good old fashioned Chronyism make them 99% home candidates. The uk speaks english and is very opened minded in this regard in terms of the job market people in the uk view the EU as a parasite. Simple as that. I cannot see any short term solution to that either.

it doies actually matter as that deal will remain after we leave.

possibly, but we have had a seperate freedom of movement deal with them for 100 years. A lot of the Germans will be ethnic germans from other states too. e.g there is a substantial ethnic german minority in Romania, many of whom have moved to Germany in recent years. I was on a german train that broke down last summer (!!). i ended getting a lift with a lutheran pastor and his wife on their way to the airport to fly back there, it then emerged the yank they had also given a lift to was a bible salesman. I always ened up surorunded by evangelical christians, i think god has got in in for my....

The data is only a google away. firstly an interesting one, % of working age population living in other EU states as % https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php?title=EU_citizens_living_in_another_Member_State_-_statistical_overview note UK second from last, it is also only major country where the number has declined 2008-2018, remove those from eire probably last by a long way. implies working age UK migrants elsewhere in EU is around 700k minus poss 400k in Eire. now the % of population from other EU states https://emn.ie/useful-statistics/migration-and-migrant-population-statistics-in-eu-28/ on the face of it the UK is mid table, however we now know that the EU population is actually over 4M, probably nearly all working age

This is why i never believed in leaving whatever issues the locals are worried about you only need to look at eg Orban to see that it takes decades for the EU to actually expel anyone for misbehaviour. If you are in danger of electing fascists because of migration, just declare England and Wales as bilingual in Welsh/English and insist that everyone passes a welsh test to work here. Essentially within the rules indeed it puts us on a par with eg the Czech republic and your job market is protected. btw it is not my idea https://www.ft.com/content/13209aec-9d71-11e9-9c06-a4640c9feebb

Look 5 million british people live/work abroad, 1 million on the continent 4 million elsewhere. I have in my career worked for 2 years in france and 1 in Canada and 1 in the USA. tbf the Canadian temporary work visa was almost trivial to obtain and i found it every bit as easy to work there as in France. This "the EU passport is gold dust " stuff is the one thing about the whole standard remain argument that does wind me up. The UK was benefiting form inward migration only. I do agree that has been of use to the country but to pretend that we are all about to take up jobs in eg the French Civil service is nuts... anyway you can always buy the EU passport from cyprus if you are that bothered about it.

Minor changes being child benefit still to be paid to people in those countries so those states were pacified. Its difficult not to view the EU as a “whats in it for us” kind of organisation though isnt it.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/feb/17/four-eu-states-reject-camerons-migrant-benefits-plan i agree with the second part, that was my point all along, ironically many british people, even stout remainers, seem unaware of the the laws the other states have about local registries and ID cards. it is almost as if the "the UK is awful" campaign polarised and deluded everyone.

What actually happened with cameron was that he asked for a reform to stop people living elsewhere in the EU from claiming UK child benefit, something that was bugging the chattering classes, they agreed to consider it but guess who vetoed it? Poland, Slovakia, Hungary and Czech Republic. Do you think these countries were worried about giving the uk let outs or was their motivation a little more mercenary.

he did not blow people up, he was silent as they blew animals brains out purely for cuisine- look trying to second guess future morality is impossible. Never understood why they put up a statue to bomber harris- appalling man. As Germany pointed out at the time, why not a memorial to 100k airmen killed if you want to honour someone. But slavery is complex, after all it had essentially existed throughout human history until the british empire abolished it on purely moral grounds. It is seems as though its last incarnation, the Transatlantic african slave trade will be all people remember. The barbary pirates enslaved almost as many white europeans in the century before that and Saudi Arabia only banned slavery in 1970. Btw abolition accelerated the industrial revolution. Most socities up til then had not worried too much about mechanisation after all human labour was cheap and plentiful from slavery.

Just ask them to spend a day being a copper as work experience, first job inform a family that their teenage daughter has been killed in an RTA. As though in any society being in the police is easy. My brother was a copper, don't particularly like the guy, but to his credit this was what did it for him.

Vandalism, ask for it to be taken away and put in a museum, like Hitler or Stalin. in the future Nelson Mandela's statue will be torn down because he ate meat, contemplate that...

nothing to do with this then? https://www.uchicagomedicine.org/forefront/news/italian-academia-is-a-family-business-statistical-analysis-reveals

As to the jobs, i know i keep on banging on about this here, but most of the EU is very protectionist about jobs e.g. italian university professors born outside Italy 1%, UK professors born outside UK 23%. even Germany only has 7% born outside germany. When it came to employment the UK never was a "bad member" it was pretty much a model one.

4 million in the UK according to the latest figures, only Germany has more, it turned out the UK;'s figure were nonsense as many had been saying https://www.gherson.com/blog/eu-settlement-scheme-more-35-million-applications-received

Indeed, i think a sense of injustice taken to extremes. i have met it in many forms in my life and it is nearly always a nightmare. I try and make the world a better place in my small way, everyone else should do the same.

Look what Brexiteers believe is that "this lot will move here when they have german citizenship" be honest, i do talk to some of them and to be honest given the level of secondary migration they may have a point. If you can read french look at the comments on this article abourt BoJo and Hong Kong https://www.lefigaro.fr/flash-actu/hong-kong-la-chine-appelle-londres-a-cesser-immediatement-toute-ingerence-20200603 a fair fraction are French people happy we are leaving as the hong kongers will not be able to move to france - seems a common sentiment

Yes that is nonsense i agree, and i am not a brexiteer, just a cynic. you did mention the green agenda though and then claimed it was not to the point when it backfired. The press are selling papers to a certain subset of the population who believe the uk has more sway than it does in trade terms. But they are concerning themselves with the wrong issues. The uk departure causes other problems that far outweigh any trade implications, e.g. acting as a job relief valve for the unemployment disaster that is southern europe.

Okay once they have got the building of lignite fuelled power stations out of the way they will move forward I will tell you what, I will never mention the building the lignite power stations again (it is in the past) if you do not mentions Angela giving 1 million people asylum in 2015 (that is in the past too) btw the UK has cut its emissions more in the last 10 years than any other EUI country and the british govt just offered 3M hong kongers asylum what is Angela doing about that problem?

This is the Germany that is still building lignite fuelled power stations?

referenda?

How often would you have referenda, one every year? leave join/remain, Is the first referenda that comes out remain the last one they should be allowed for a million years?