bugga

In Brighton rents have been holding pretty steady but the supply has been growing month by month. In my experience many more landlords are open to negotiation. I think Brighton has seen a lot of BTL activity over the past few years so I suppose it may be different elsewhere but here I have seen flats drop, new builds coming down from a ridicolous £1100pcm for a 2 bed flat to around £850pcm. Obviously they are not covering mortgage but the voids have just been killing them and they will take anything. For the first time in 6 years I have also seen the same properties advertised 4 - 5 months later....just lying there unrented, good properties as well but just in a saturated area with little demand.

Hi catara Didn't I read somewhere that you were looking to buy in the Canary Islands in 2004 but waiting for the prices to fall? I can understand your commitment to talk the market down and it is a commitment which as so far taken almost 4 years. I have to agree with you about over 50's MEW'ing but I still think they have left enough to sell up, pay off the mortgage and then buy a small place for cash in Spain. I may be proven wrong. I run a large and quite succesful company over here in the UK and I would like to think I keep my eye on the ball when it comes to anything financial. I have seen the market die in Spain around late 2005/early 2006 but prices have failed to follow suit. Now Im not sure why this is but my first guess would be because people selling are in no rush or the developers have little to lose by not selling immediately. I watch with amusement at some of the places being developed and as I think I have said before on this forum these places are "dead ducks". I cringe at the thought of living in one of these developments inland in Spain and they have no rental or resale potential whatsoever. These are always going to lose value and are the exception to the lack of price falls. I think 2010 - 2011 will offer prices no more or no less than as they stand now. If anything buying in 2008 you will lose if you are looking to make any gain on your investment because of inflation/currency affects. What may happen though is that you may miss out on a good frontline opportunity as the good places tend to get snapped up and rarely come back on the market (unless a death occurs). If you are looking to just buy a place in Spain anywhere then by all means wait until 2010 and im sure you will bag a bargain...but then you could have done that in 2005/2006/2007/2008. I know apartments going for £90k that can be offered £40k and accepted. Houses inland that can be bought for half of the asking price perhaps even 70% off. These will always be there for you if thats what you want. What I repeat and will always stand by is that in Spain find a nice place in the right location and you should find it keeps its price. I have seen this in the late 80's / early 90's and it will happen again. Sorry if this isnt what the wanabee Spain buyers want to hear. You are right about the Dutch guy....Dutch Auction confusion. I apologise for the mix up.

Roquetas....say no more. That is one of the areas I certainly would avoid. It explains many things, especially why we seem to disagree so much. I do indeed speak fluent Spanish and still have many Spanish Friends that live in the area and elsewhere (mainly Murcia). I lived in Spain for 2 years but as I have a Spanish mother as well so I think I know a little about the culture and the way of life. I have been there over in August many times. I think we will have to agree to disagree. As for Catara....you have shown yourself up to be the idiot I think many on here know you are.

Is this a joke post? Romania....Poland..... Haven't you heard, nobody wants to live there and as soon as the cheap labour jobs disappear in the UK all that UK wage money channeling over will freeze.

OMG you were buying a house in Nottingham!!!! You are either having a laugh or you are seriously retarded. Don't you realise prices are halving there at this very minute. A friend of mine has a house in West Bridgeford and a few year ago he had it valued at £230k. He has just accepted some contract work in London and is looking to sell and rent back in London. The EA came around in January and valued it at £195k. He was gutted and asked for it to go on at £210k (he paid £150k for it in 2001). Anyway the other day he emailed me to say he'd received two offers for £165k and £169k and the EA was urging him to accept. He still hasnt got back to them but the fella three doors down sold for £160k last month so he is now talking of £169k as if it is an OK offer!!!! What this demonstrated to me was that house prices are purely finger in the air predictions. PS just got email from him now and it seems he is going with the £169k offer. I think this has more to do with the fact I told him a few months ago that he would be lucky to get away without negative equity. The recent Daily Mail article probably reinforced this and so he'd rather walk away with a few thousand than owing the bank money. The EA also said that the person offering was "in demand". In other words he had a mortgage and so was walking around like a king Unfortunately I think even at £169k this joker will lose out in the long run. If he had held out for another month he might have had £150k accepted (Thats taking into account that the £165k offerer disappeared). I've just thought,I do hope the buyer isnt a HPC'er

Yep Im pretty much in the same position. For what its worth I think this Dutch guy is pretty smart. The way I see it is that a majority of people 55+ will be looking to exit the UK over the next 7-10 years and Spain will represent a popular option. Of course the boom is over and developers will go bust and construction will freeze but demand will stay constant and new builds will crop up at 30% discounts (2006 prices) perhaps even more but as supply stops for a few years the supply/demand equilibrium will return. One thing to remember about 55+ yr olds is that they rarely require a mortgage and often have enough equity in their UK property to sell cheaply. With the average price for a 2 bed house in Spain standing at around £140k it shouldn't pose too many problems for your average baby boomer. Because of this global credit being withdrawn by borowers shouldn't pose any problem. If this Dutch guy can afford to hold on then I think he has done pretty well. You have 10 flats overlooking a great beach in Southern Spain ,a sack load of Northern Europeans looking to retire to the Sun....at some point your going to bring home the bacon.

Apologies for touching a raw nerve Mark. I was pretty upset by the following sentance you used in your post This is indicative of the type of sterotyping people moving/living in Spain have to deal with. It is an almost sneering statement to be honest and a bit embarrasing. Let me go through your points one by one,Mark I do believe you said the following Mark "Additionally, the area you talking about would be a nightmare for me personally, because Mojacar especially, is a British ghetto." You state that the AREA would be a nightmare. What I was trying to explain to you was that apart from a very small community in Mojacar the AREA (inc Garrucha) was indeed very Spanish. As a result what you stated was in fact incorrect and not a true picture of reality. Oh and Albox is a s**thole pure and simple. It is a god awful place that has nothing going for it other than cheap fincas. I wouldnt invest there and I think I made that clear in my post. Find a nice place by the coast in Spain and you cant lose.....simple. Again another example of you believing you are superior. In fact many of the people that you claim are sat drinking beer in the sun are actually getting involved with local politics. Many of these attend Spanish lessons and help organise local fiestas or put on theatre productions in Spanish. Being on the residents commitee and playing five a side may be your idea of embracing local culture and good luck to you but dont try and slate other people off for their attempts to embrace local life in their own way. It sounds like you live inland Mark. If you lived by the coast you would be nicely cooled by the sea breezes in Summer I expect you suffer from extreme cold spells in the Winter as well, something also avoided living by the coast. This is another reason why people live there. Glad to hear you are enjoying the site Mark. Yes agreed Spain is a big place and there are lots of areas to choose from. I dont think I ever said anything to the contrary did I? I just think if you choose a nice area which is frequented by Spanish or British or both then you cant go wrong. Avoid the concrete jungles and yes there are some less desirable Brits in some places (Marbella, Benidorm, Torrevieja etc) but there are likewise some areas with less than desirable Spanish. Whatever you do do not avoid an area simply because British people live there. We are all guilty of being a bit snobbish sometimes but I found 95% of Brits in Spain absolutely delightful and really intent on embracing Spanish life. Far from it. if you read my post properly you would see I am absolutely delighted that they have stopped building more apartments in my area. I would prefer it if not one more person moved to Spain but then that would be slightly selfish of me. I paid cash for my house and I own just one house in Spain. I dont own a house in the UK and I didnt buy it as an investment. What I do do is say it as I see it and that can sometimes upset those that are intent on talking Spain down (not including you in this Mark).

It depends on their strategy. Good time to start a business is in a recession as long as you have enough money to last you a few years. Hold tight and watch all of your competitors with high fixed costs going to the wall. Keep your costs low and then pounce when things start to level off.

I think your possibly right,I would say that possibly over 20% of landlords will survive the coming recession. That is of course as long as Brown doesn't decide to tax landlords when things get a bit tight. And of course as long as said landlords dont need to release equity within the next 20 - 25 years. Personally I have no respect for landlords as financially they are a little stupid. Anyone with sense would have sold at peak, saved the cash for 5-10 years then buy them back at half price.....derrrrrrr anyone home mcfly!!!!

Indeed my landlord hasn't yet worked out that buying is dead money.

Yes renting is a good idea and I say that as somebody who has made an average return of 14% (excluding Capital growth) by renting my property since buying it 7 years ago. I'd like it if everybody rented. I suppose it depends on how personal you want to make the property. I rent now in the UK but would prefer to own if only the prices were more sensible. In Spain you can still pick up a decent bargain so Im not sure if it is entirely the right move to rent. I added broadband and turned the back garden into a lovely Italian Outdoor Kitchen area with a fantastic barbeque area etc. I enjoy personalising it and have even turned my basement into an office so should I ever get the property back I could go out there for weeks at a time and work from the villa. I wouldn't suggest that by renting you were going to lose out on any capital growth but I think from a psychological point of view being so far away from home I would like to feel settled in some small way. Sorry but what a stupid comment, it really winds me up that this attitude still exists. For a start let me clear some things up: a) Vera Playa is around 8 miles from Mojacar and between it is Garrucha. I take it from your comment that you have never been to the area? If you had you would know that Garrucha is almost 99% Spanish and is a much larger town than Mojacar. Garrucha is a working Fishing Town. Vera is again 99% Spanish as are the towns of Palomares, Cuevas, Villaricos. The area is renkowned for being the holiday resort favoured by people from Madrid and in August the whole area is flooded. As somebody who lived there for 2 years I can assure you that it is indeed very Spanish. What was nice was that you could hop on a bus or drive for 10-15 minutes and go somewhere where you could mix with a few Brits. As an example the urbanisation I live in is around 70% Spanish and across from me the apartments are abouit 80% Spanish owned. Mojacar does have a high amount of Brits but it is a bit condescending to assume that they are all watching British TV and Drinking themselves into a stupor. My experience is that many of them spent their time going to the local markets and embraced the local culture with open arms. c) If you have integrated fully with the Spanish Community then why do you feel it necessary to come on to an English website and indulge in conversations on the forum. Why not go on Spanish websites instead seeing as you are now part of that community. Is it because you still have an interest and like to indulge in a bit of banter without referring every 5 minutes to your Spanish Dictionary? Sometimes its nice to mix with Brits and sometimes it s nice to do Spanish things with the Spanish People. I think you will find that when you step outside of your bubble of false superiority for a few seconds you may find the majority of people living in these areas are doing just that.

After living in Spain for two years, Bologna,Italy for 9 months and France for 14 months I have to say that Spain was by far the best experience. Even funnier was watching those people arrive and head off to remote areas to be with the "locals" only to find them down the Taverna a few weeks later going on about how much nicer it is to have a decent conversation. Three months later they are selling up and looking for a place down by the coast, nearer to a few Brits. I fully agree about places such as Benidorm, Puerto Banus, Marbella, Torrevieja but away from these traditional Brit "lager and chip" resorts exist hundreds of towns that have around 100+ ex-pats cohabiting with the locals. I loved my time in Spain and will return as soon as I need to slow my pace of life down a litle bit. My advice is to fully enjoy your time as much as possible live close by a few Brits just to have a free flowing conversation now and again and to share common experiences.

I just wanted to say I fully agree with everything posted above. This woman is absolutely typical of the Sussex set that means restaurants and "Gastro Pubs" have sprung up everywhere in Haywards Heath and Brighton over the past 4 years. And if you want to walk anywhere you are struggling for air as the queues of gas guzzling 4x4's and people carriers chuck out plumes of fumes. I sincerely hope that these people are crushed in the next 12 months. I won't be happy until she is literally begging on the streets with her children.

The place to invest at the moment in Spain is definitely Vera Playa which is an area close to Mojacar and Garrucha in Almeria. Let me tell you the reasons why this is the case: 1. Zapatero has recently bought a home there. Apparently he has holidayed there for years. 2. The AVE which is the high speed rail network will actually have a station at Vera Playa. This will be the only beach resort to have an AVE (as Lionarm rightly states this is because of Zapatero's influence). This means Madrid will be 2hrs away and Barcelona just under 4 hours. This area of Spain has always been very popular with people from Madrid and the AVE will add to this demand. Think Brighton and London. 3. Restrictions have always been in place to do with the height of buildings and this is currently 3 storeys for residential and 4 for commercial. 4. Vera Playa has 5km of fantastic sandy beach and an EU grant has been recently signed means more than 20million euros will be put aside to protect the beach from erosion and to add a watersports centre/lake at the Villaricos end of the playa. The lake has already been started. 5. A motorway has been recently built between Murcia airport and Vera. This is a toll road but means you can reach Vera playa now within 40 minutes from both Murcia and Almeria airports. Alicante is 1hr 40mins away should you require it. 6. Plans to construct 1000's of holiday homes inland from Vera Playa have recently been squashed (Thanks again Mr Z). Instead plans have been placed with the Junta at Vera to build high grade family homes and improve infrastructure (ie office blocks, shops etc). Now I have to declare my vested interest. About 7 years ago I bought a house in Vera Playa. I paid cash so no problems there but I had spent years looking for the right location. I lived in the house for 2 years and since then have rented it both long term and short term. Fingers crossed up until now I have only ever had the property empty for a week in the past 7 years. I find it interesting on here listening to the arguments about Spanish Property in the context of HPC. When somebody in the UK tells me that where they have bought is immune to HPC because it is so desirable I tend to disagree but when it comes to Spain I find that I raise a similar argument. When somebody approaches me and says "i cant sell my house in Spain" or "Im having a nightmare with land grab etc" or "The area is going to the dogs" I ask one question.....Its not Torrevieja is it?. Surprisingly so far around 18 out of 30 people say "how did you guess". The next question is "Oh, is it somewhere inland then, perhaps looked too good to be true....lots of land etc?" Thats when the other 12 say yes. In Spain pick a good area, front line if possible and you will NEVER lose. My Uncle bought an apartment in 1993 which was then a small fishing town called Puerto Duquesa. It cost him £35k, he bought it from an English guy who had bought it in 1987 for £10k. At the time my whole family felt it was a bad move and overpriced. In 2000 he came in to bad times and sold it for £110k (managing to clear all his debts)...last year it sold for just shy of 400k euros (£300k). Now I have to say that is crazy money but it is a great apartment which sits right on the harbour and as instantly sold whenever it has come on the market. Right place always sells in Spain. Why will Spain remain pretty bouyant during a uk/worldwide recession? Bob and his wife Sheila live in Worcester. They are both coming up to 60 and both are retiring on good private pensions. Bob & Sheila live in a house they bought in 1992 for £85,000 and the £10,000 mortage was paid off 5 years later. The house was valued in 2001 at £300,000 and in 2006 valued again at £380,000. Bob and Sheila MEW'd £40,000 out of the house for a cruise and to gove £30k to their son as a deposit on his house. In July 2008 Bob&Sheila go to look at Spain because they are sick of England (immigrants, hoodies, high cost of living) and have enjoyed holidays there in the past. They see a few places and come back and put their house on the market for £400k. A month later they drop the price to £380k and then in October down to £350k. HPC has kicked in and so in desperation they sell for £300k, pay off the £40k and walk away with £260k. They soon realise they can buy a nice 3 bed townhouse by the sea for £200k. They buy and spend a further £20k on tax, costs etc. £40k goes in the bank along with £40k (25% lump sum on pension). So even though they dropped their house price by 25% (£100k) they can still afford to buy a nice house with room for the grandkids in cash and still have £80k in the bank. Plus food and drink is cheaper (not helped though by the xchange rate) and council tax is £30 per year, heating bills, petrol etc are half so the pension goes so much further. Now the above takes for granted that Bob and Sheila have no savings or investments whatsoever but do have £40k of debt and do drop their house price by 25%. It also takes into account that the family home is pretty averagely priced. Now Bob and Sheila are part of the baby boomer generation and are coming up to retirement at a time when the UK will be an expensive and bleak place to live. Many of these baby boomers would have holidayed in Spain and have grandkids so somewhere with a good all year round temperature, just a couple of hours and cheap flight away will certainly fit the bill. Cost of living is a lot less and heating is not needed as much, which is a blessing with fuel bills flying through the roof. Anyway I suppose my point is that Spain is in my opinion a safe bet at the moment (unless your buying new build flats (familiar story worldwide) or in inland areas). I would be interested in hearing from people with opposing views.

Whatever the figure expect the Daily Express headline tomorrow to say - HOUSE PRICES BOOM AGAIN - LAND REGISTRY FIGURES SHOW BRITAINS HOUSING MARKET IS SET TO SOAR ONCE MORE

I have to disagree. I think the 3-4 bed detached houses in leafy suburbs and good areas will be the hardest hit. Why? Well because these are the houses owned by the BTL investors, the MEW credit crazed middle classes. These are the people who have generated the boom in 4x4's and People Carriers, private schools and luxury holidays. These are the people on £60k- £90k joint incomes who own second homes in Cornwall and Devon. These are the people whos jobs are on the line...middle managers, recruitment consultants, Insurance brokers, estate agents etc Now the sheet is hittng the fan these people will be crucified. £300k - £600k houses will be flooding on to the market and some of these guys will be desperate to get out. I actually expect bigger falls in this area than most because these guys usually have a bit of equity to play with and can therefore drop by 30-40% if needs be. The smaller houses and flats are owned by 21-30 yr olds who are in low level, low paid jobs (less likely to be made redundant in a recession)and likely to just get their heads down and work through the recession. They have debts but they are much more manageable than the aspiring older middle classes. They have little equity in their property so will go negative and as a result may be less willing/unable to sell.

Why oh why oh why would you want to sign up for 3 years when rents are dropping like a stone every few months. In Brighton I have noticed rents falling to the point where desperate landlords are offering flats for half their original rent. Only this morning I got chatting to a fella who had rented my old flat in Palmeira Yard, Hove a few weeks ago for £950 pcm. When I was renting it just under 18 montsh ago I had managed to get the landlord down from £1600pcm to £1400pcm. Since I left it has lay empty for 4 months, then rented for 6 months then another void of 5-6 months. The landlord paid £300k for the place so he must be tearing his hair out. The thing is that up the road you have block after block of empty new builds. Landlords everywhere who simply have to rent for something...anything otherwise there buggad. Now I understand people wanting a bit of security but I personally love playing the "see how expensive a flat/house I can live in for £1000pcm". Last year I managed a £500k penthouse in the Argus Lofts development. I currently have my eyes on a 5 bed detached house on Dyke Road. Up for just over £1700pcm but been on the market now for 6 months. Put a call in to the letting agency last month but they wouldnt go below £1500pcm. I wonder how they feel this month. That landlord must be desperate. If he does his sums he may realise he is better to let me have it for £1000pcm than suffer any more voids. Oooooh it must be worth around £850k. Happy days

WTF!!!!! Are these courses still running and are people still attending them? I got this through my email about 10 minutes ago. Crazy Times. I thought these things had all been exposed as complete scams? This email has been sent to you because you are a registered member on the Get Me A Ticket website. Please see below if you wish to change your preference. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Claim your complimentary property training course (worth £475) - Named No. 1 in Britain for 2006, 2007 and 2008 Receive a complimentary property training course (worth £475) and learn how you can build a property portfolio that allows you to quit work forever. Property beginner or experienced investor, we’ll show you how, whatever the market conditions, you can start with little to no capital, buy properties below market value and generate £1,000 to £4,000 or more per month. Plus if you already have a property portfolio, learn simple strategies to boost your returns whilst freeing up your time so you can really enjoy life. For your complimentary training go to www.winpropertyinvesting.co.uk/getep or call 0800 084 20 20 We are giving away 45 Complimentary tickets, to generate some great word of mouth publicity, so to check you get your place take action straight away. Attend our training and you'll realise why we were awarded No.1 in the UK by Business Britain 2006 and 2007. This is an outstanding training course. You should attend if any of the following apply: * You want to know how to do well when the market goes sideway or down * You want to get into property but don’t have the capital or just don’t know how * You are already experienced but want to further increase your success * You already have a portfolio and want better results for less effort and time * You want strategies that will work in the current market conditions * You are thinking of buying a property some time in the future here or abroad * You want to take control of your finances once and for all * You want more time to enjoy life and do the things you love For your complimentary tickets and to hear what others thought of the course go to www.winpropertyinvesting.co.uk/getep or call 0800 084 20 20 "I attended this property course last week and it was outstanding. I was certainly impressed by the millions of pounds that Darren has personally made from property, but what excited me even more was the fact that the strategies he uses can be applied by anyone, whatever their financial situation or experience to get similar results" Mr A Harrington Our office address: 131 - 151 Great Titchfield Street London W1W 5BB Registered in England & Wales OC304488 at the address above Switchboard 0870 1121234

jonboy If I was to come around to your house/flat every week and ask for £450 and I carried on doing so for years to come would you be happy? I mean that is money you cant afford to give away for nothing isn't it? Well thats more or less what will happen if you buy this house. By waiting before buying you are effectively saving yourself £450 per week. Just think how that is securing a future for you, your wife and child. For simply not having that "home" for just a year or two. Why not rent for another year or two. Renting is a clever mans game nowadays. Dont go throwing your money down the drain by owning a house when their are hundreds of landlords out there willing to subsidize your lifestyle. I currently rent a house that would cost me £1600 on an interest only mortgage but only costs me £1050 in rent. In theory my landlord is giving me £550 per month as well as covering all my maintenance costs etc. Happy Days. So I am not only saving £1800 per month (lost equity if I owned the house) but also saving a further £550+ by renting. I would never let my partner down by making a foolish decision like buying a house just as the bubble is bursting. If you buy now you will always regret it. Give it 2-3 years and when things are around half the price they are now go out and buy your dream house.

I recently went to Glasgow to do something with work (needed to stay overnight) and paid £125 a night for a Holiday Inn in the theatre district. It was one of the cheapest centrally located hotels. My flight with Easyjet cost £159 return and my evening meal at a fake french cafe rouge type place cost £42. Anyway for the overnight visit to Glasgow I handed in an expenses claim for £413.83. To compare, a few weeks before I spent a week in San Francisco with work and handed in a claim for £1100.

This is purely a FAD. Financially it makes no sense and is in fact believe it or not a "luxury" holiday. Middle class families with cash to burn can head down to Devon/Cornwall and over pay for these cottages (£200 per day...ffs). They can then head out and pay £32 for 4 cream teas before parking by the beach at £20 per day. They can sit in a beer garden and spend £12 a round on 2 cokes, a wine and a pint). £24 later they head off home before going to the local "Gastro Pub" and spending a further £60. The next day they buy 4 pasties for £15 and visit a local motor museum costing £38. They head to the beach again spend £10 on parking and another £8 on 4 teas....etc etc. The whole thing ends up costing £2,500 and you could have had an all inclusive in a 4 star Thailand Spa resort for the same money. So why are these people doing these UK breaks in their droves? because it is currently fashionable....middle class mothers in their 4x4's all over Britain are telling other mothers at coffee mornings about how they are going for a week in Devon. It is a nostalgia thing...the famous four, posh kids in jumpers, what ho mum what a fantastic wheeze..more jam sandwichs for choccy and me. It is in its own way a display of being upwardly mobile....it is unfortunately a class thing. "Look at us we aren't like your rabble that go to Tenerife...we go on traditional holidays to Devon." These holidays..this trend...is a product of the Boom and will therefore in my opinion be destroyed as the boom times disappear.

I think UK rip off holidays will be the worst hit. With UK petrol/rail/food/drink prices, road congestion and B&B's/Holiday Cottages charging £100 per day on top of bloomin awful weather....who would go on a UK break? £1000+ for 7 days in rain eating crap over priced food whilst staying in in the evenings to avoid the local Cornish Hoodies. The recession will see a resurgence in Spanish Holidays. Funnily enough during the past 5 years Spanish tourism has suffered with its real boom time taking place during the 90's. Spain is cheap and the weather is guaranteed, it is child friendly and more options beyond your "benidorm" type resorts mean it will appeal to a cross section of the UK Community. Mr and Mrs Average have been taking sneaky breaks to Barbados, Italy, Seychelles, Thailand, Goa, Dubai etc etc. They have been keeping up with the Jones's and MEW'ing away all day long. They didn't want to be seen holidaying in Spain when Mr and Mrs Jones next door were also taking breaks to Jamaica, Kenya, Egypt etc. My partner works for BA (gatwick not T5 thank god) anyway she works on the Barbados/Antigua/Jamaica routes and every single flight is rammed 100% (2 flights a day for each resort). 5-6 years ago they were 60% full (1 flight a day). These routes will certainly suffer over the next few years. Now money is tight for Mr and Mrs Average they can go and get a £90 return flight to Spain, rent a 3 bed apartment for £300 a week and drink £1 a pint beer/£2 bottle wine, go out for a £20 meal for 4 and guaranteed sunshine. I think a recession will also see a slow decline in the weekend break. Resorts such as Prague, Budapest, Paris will see declines I am sure of it.