Newtoswansea

Everyone on this thread seems to be totally obsessed with Mumbles, West Cross or the west of Swansea generally. This is not the area where you can expect to see a true barometer of Swansea and area's current prices reductions. Is it a case of the Green Eyed God perhaps? We just hate people having nice houses!! The real drop in Swansea house prices starts where turnover of property is the highest and will filter down to west Swansea.

Well done P, If that does'nt convince him then nothing will. Just looked at Swansea, much the same story.

The new builds in the Marina will soon turn into a huge slum, Had a drive round the new development St Christophers Court yesterday. It's like a great big soulless Russian Gulag, already there are black rubbish bags left outside doors, grafiti on the walls, a bike in a bike shed with it's rear wheel bent, obviously done by some yob rather like they do in the bike racks outside the Quadrant. I noticed two lady police officers standing guard by some waste land by the development and the the beach, it seems that 3 drunk homeless street people or in this case 3 drunk dunes people had a fight over a bottle of cider or whatever they drink and 2 of them beat the living daylights out of the 3rd. People paid over £300K to live there!! can you believe it!

I think you will find that property prices in Swansea have fallen by approx 8.5% since last September. New apartments in the Marina are now available 20-30% cheaper than when they were sold off plan about a year ago. Very soon once the panic sets in there will be free-fall. True "Investors" did not buy in the Marina they left that part of the town to amateur landlords, who being amateurs only have an entry but no exit strategy. Once the amateurs really start to get nervous they will lose all reason and act like lemmings. SELL, SELL, SELL. Any true investor will tell you never ever sell in a down market, NEVER! Soon the there will be rich pickings in the Marina for those looking to take advantage of the repo market. Property prices like any other commodity have a price cycle normally 11 years. Right on the cusp they overshoot either up or down and that's what's happening right now. In the bear market the prices overshot, that's why apartments were sold 2 or 3 times before the floor or roof was on. Now it's the bull's turn and prices will free-fall until approx next March, when there should be a recovery. I don't know enough about West Swansea to really comment but I'm sure there are some of you out there who do and will see a similarity between the 2 areas. GREED and more GREED. The problem with greedy people is that they never know when to give in and quite often they are pretty stupid as well. They still ask silly prices for house they simply cannot afford to pay the mortgage on. It's like that mouse trap where the mouse shoves his head into a hole to get the cheese, can't retreat cos his mouth is full of cheese but will not let go! He dies. More than most other markets, property and it's availability and price rise or fall is governed by politics. Approaching the 12 months preceding the next general election the politicians in power will try to rectify the collapse of the market to give all the voters that feel good factor. No one is going to vote for a party that's in power when an important market collapses. They will let the market find it's own level for the next year, because then the engineered recovery is more dramatic. Think back to 1997- 2002 Does that make sense!!

Good advice from Tulip, on the button!! I live in the Marina and would not recommend it. Like The Costa del Sol a few years ago. building, building and even more building. You should get a reasonable small house for £600. Sketty should be a good bet. Letting agents on Mansell street/Walters Road should be avoided like the plague, I know most of them. They will let you down, no return phone calls, can't remember who you are when you phone etc.

It would be handy to know how old you and your fiance are to offer some sound advice on where to go and who to rent your flat or house through. Regards Martin

Thanks for that George, We all thought it would be Dawsons who would go first!

I thought they went bust and rose out of the ashes like the phoenix. What was the Alan Darlow thing?

Buy to let investors in SA1 development should be afraid, very afraid!! I always follow the property market with great interest and noticed that Swansea for some reason does not follow the trend of Cardiff but does seem to have the same direction as some of the larger northern towns like Leeds, Manchester, Sheffield etc. Where they go Swansea seems to follow. Chatting to a friend or more like an acquaintance who has an EA in the marina and opened another in Oystermouth to take advantage of the BOOM, Seemingly the Mumblies have a different approach to property marketing than other Jacks. They put their houses on the market for silly prices simply to say to their chums "Mine's on at £745.000" when they know it's only worth £450.000 on a good day. They love to see it featured in the Post and carry a copy around with them to show. If the EA tells them he will have to market the property at it's true value then they simply take it off his books. If they put a property on the rental market at a certain price and are advised by the EA to reduce the rental iin order to get a good tenant, they would rather stand firm and pay the council tax than reduce their rental. It's all a matter of their perception or how they perceive themselves. They will be hoisted by their own petard! There will be a knashing of teeth and wailing in Verdies soon. "Buy-to-let investors who fear they may be left homeless They face personal ruin after losing the properties they thought would be their pension. As Tony Levene reports, their story is far from unique * Tony Levene * The Guardian, * Saturday March 22 2008 * Article history About this article Close This article appeared in the Guardian on Saturday March 22 2008 on p4 of the Money news & features section. It was last updated at 00:02 on March 22 2008. Buy-to-let investors are facing their hardest times since amateur landlords first hit the scene in force a decade ago. Property values are falling, rents are static, and interest rates are on the way up - assuming buy-to-letters can find mortgages now that many lenders have toughened up their criteria. But for many investors - including Chris Miller and Geoff Morris - it's more than belt-tightening that's needed. Unless they can pull out a last-minute rabbit, it's game over and personal ruin. They have already lost the properties they believed would provide them with riches. Now they also risk their own homes and other assets. Their stories are far from unique. Thousands of would-be amateur landlords are in a similar position. The two men are not after sympathy. While both say they were deceived by developers, lenders, lawyers and, above all, valuers, they accept that ultimately they have only themselves to blame. Just months ago, Miller and Morris believed they had buy-to-let portfolios valued in millions - Miller's came with a £7.5m tag. Morris had contracted to buy flats developers valued at £3m. Now Miller owes a variety of lenders some £3.5m, while Morris is living on benefits, fearing the repossession knock on his own front door. Miller accepts he has no excuses. "I was a director of a company selling new-build flats to investors that we found through newspaper adverts. "Between May 2006 and November 2006, I believed what we told them, and I bought 31 new two-bedroom flats, which, I was told, were worth £7.5m - 10 in Cardiff, eight in Manchester, six in Burslem, Staffordshire with the other seven spread around England." Miller, 52, a qualified solicitor who specialised in property work, lives in Bedford. He says: "I bought into this as everyone else was doing it, including the other directors. Even as a director of a firm selling flats, I could not see the game being played. And if I could not see it, then how could you expect the investors we attracted in with our marketing, to understand what was going on?" He now alleges the expected rents - and hence the valuations based on them - were grossly over-optimistic. Valuers told him to expect monthly rents as high as £855 for a one-bed flat, when, in reality, they never got more than £400-£500. A valuation survey for a one bedroom flat in Cardiff in August 2006 showed a £209,800 price tag. Yet the valuer said that similar flats in the same block were selling at £177,000. "The gap of around 15% was a 'gifted deposit'. The value was pushed up artificially so I could get an 85% mortgage on the £209,800. The reality was that I got 100% of what I actually spent - around £177,000. The gifted deposit scheme meant I did not need to put down a penny of my own money." The valuer quoted an expected £855 a month rental income on the Cardiff flat if "let to a corporate client", less to an individual. The £855 was almost exactly the monthly mortgage interest on the buy-to-let loan. Agents in Cardiff now cite rents in a similar flat in the same block at £475 a month - little more than half Miller's promised income. Miller also used gifted deposits on the other 30 properties, almost all with loans from buy-to-let specialist GMAC. "In all, I owed GMAC £6.4m. My monthly interest was £29,252 but all I ever cleared a month after costs was around £15,000. What we had expected was that interest would be covered by the rent - while the capital values would produce profits when we sold." GMAC passed most of the loans on to others including offshoots of Bradford & Bingley and Britannia. The monthly loss from the low rents was unsustainable. Now two properties have been sold; 28 repossessed; and the other flat is in the repossession process. "When the flats are sold at auction, they are unlikely to fetch much more than £3m, leaving me with debts of about £3.5m. The others who bought similar portfolios are in the same position. " I was stupid to do this. The valuations were unrealistic. My only chance is to sue the valuers - I am exploring that via a class action. "The lenders could make me bankrupt but that would get them nothing. Their only hope is, if I pursue a successful legal case." Geoff Morris, 61, who lives in St Neots, Cambridgeshire, had had enough of stockmarket speculation by 2003. "I decided to try property. I went to a free workshop, was very impressed, and signed up for the full course. I aimed to get as many properties as I could, as quickly as possible. "I admit I threw all caution to the wind. I assumed others would do the due diligence for me - after all I was paying," he says. "I put deposits down on properties still to be built in places like Manchester, Middlesbrough and Leeds, even though I had never been to any of them. And I bought into Florida - again, totally sight unseen." Then he started to purchase the flats. "All this was to be my pension. Everyone selling property told me I could not rely on the government or insurance companies. But this was the most expensive mistake of my life. I had to put money down on these properties as they were not on a gifted deposit basis. "I managed to get the cash using a mix of zero-interest credit cards, personal loans, and when that ran out, remortgaging my house. Now I realise I substantially overpaid." Morris is today living on £157 a week in benefits, owes £100,000 on credit cards and personal loans, is in £200,000 negative equity, and Northern Rock has a suspended repossession order on his home for the £200,000 he owes it. "I never made the money I was promised. The rents never matched the interest payments. Buy-to-let was a fantasy for me because I never checked anything. "I was so enthusiastic I just went ahead. Some of my properties were never built even though I had put down deposits. Others have been repossessed. I now have nothing. I am currently part of a class action against a number of firms involved. Others include doctors, lawyers, and retired people - all normal people trying to make money".

Flats and maisonettes built on the Sketty Social club grounds where offered last summer at £209.950 for a maisonette, in October they were at £185K and if you signed up for 2 then the price was £175K. Yesterday I learned that the developer/builder has gone into liquidation. The flats are all sold but there are still maisonettes available, I wonder at what price now?

When you think about it, it's absolutely ridiculous that anyone could possibly expect to get £300K for a 3 bed apartment in the new marina. It's 300 yards from Wind Street for goodness sake. You are right for that sort of money you could get a very nice house in the west. Mind you when taking a viewing D'Arcy's or Marina Properties or whatever he calls himself these days never takes punters anywhere near the bridge or Wind Street area. I viewed an apartment in South Wharf they had on their books, (just being nosey) instead of walking from their office via the barrage which would take literally 5 minutes the young AE drove us miles round to avoid the iffy area. He constantly bigged up the new tower, the Village hotel etc. I think they do have some sort of financial deal going with developers to promote the new builds rather than established blocks. At the asking prices they could give away some very fat brown envelopes. If you like hearing your neighbours going to the loo or brushing their teeth through the stud walls then you would love the new apt's in SA1. Take my word those £300K apt's do have stud walls!!

I Agree with you both totally, I only wish I could join you in renting but if my apartment was put on the market it would be just another one amongst hundreds fighting for attention in the marina. There is no movement here whatsoever and our local EA does not even put up for sale signs in all the windows of properties on his books as it puts a slant on the market here. His problem then is that vendors don't think he is really making any effort to promote their properties. New apartments coming to market now seem to instruct Dawson's as their signs are everywhere.

Gus, I totally agree with you, the older I get the more attractive the rental option becomes. Cash is king! Converting property to cash has now in the last few months become a nightmare. I did some years ago convert some of my sterling into Euros and am pleased I did. The Euro was 68 was I bought and is now 76 so I had interest on my money plus growth. Better than property. Property is no longer an easily convertible asset and to borrow against it has become difficult and expensive. I used to have a few letting properties in the Fforest Fach area and they became nothing but a problem. Whatever you are told by these property seminars about gearing and growth do not buy off plan or buy-to-let, there are easier ways to make money.

House sale signs go mouldy for lack of buyers I strolled around Sketty after visiting a friend yesterday afternoon and noticed that some EA's boards were actually growing mold. The Property Post had 80 pages last night yet the Evening Post only had 40! The only one to benefit from the property situation in Swansea must be the advertising revenue manager at the Post. I would love to run a sweep stake on which EA will be the first to close his doors. My bet would be Simpsons.

Propertybee works perfectly, thanks for that MT. Property coming up for auction!! Guide £125.000 Bellevue Road West Cross, Bishopston, Swansea FOR SALE BY AUCTION* Semi detached house with 4 beds needing modernisation which has bricked up garage FOR SALE BY AUCTION * Semi detached house with 4 beds needing modernisation w... marketed by Choices West Midlands I happen to know this is a repo that's why it's not with a local EA. Must be a buy!!! Choices always put up a realistic guide price.

There is a lot of difference between an asking price and what someone is prepared to pay. It's often the case that potental buyers are more aware of price shifting than sellers. EA's bump up the price to get the contract.

Thanks for that, I use Firefox as my main browser so shouldn't find it to difficult.

As a matter of interest what is property bee and how do you use it? I just looked at rightmove and can't find it. Sketty has been known in the trade as mortgage mountain for years because most of the property has been remortgaged time after time to pay for the Mercedes, BMW's and cruises etc, when they come to move on there is no equity left. If you check the area out with Experian the credit rating is not too great, it's on a par with Parc Penplas!!! We all seem to agree on one thing, the general buss of conversation in Verdi's, Morgans or the Bras, is no longer " guess how much my house is worth" more "we decided not to go away this year" There are just to many apartments for sale in Swansea, there is a positive glut and yet they still build more!! Who is going to live in them?

Even the top to middle end of the marketing is generally down by average 11% and will be down about 40% by the end of the year. Examples below: address type original price current price change days on market Mumbles, Swansea 3 bedroom house £285,000 £249,950 DOWN 12% 210 days (sa3) Mumbles, Swansea 5 bedroom house £850,000 £750,000 DOWN 11% 229 days (sa3) Mumbles, Swansea 3 bedroom house £349,950 £310,000 DOWN 11% 229 days (sa3) Castle Avenue, Mumbles, Swansea 4 bedroom house £369,000 £328,500 DOWN 10% 229 days(sa3) Three Cliffs Drive, Pennard, Swansea 3 bedroom house £235,000 £210,000 DOWN 10% 229 days (sa3) Castle Avenue, Mumbles, Swansea, Glamorgan/Morgannwg, SA3 4BA 4 bedroom house £365,000 £328,500 DOWN 10% 86 days (sa3) Langland, Swansea 5 bedroom house £380,000 £345,000 DOWN 9% 229 days (sa3) Church Park, Mumbles, Swansea 4 bedroom house £550,000 £499,950 DOWN 9% 229 days (sa3) West Cross, Swansea 3 bedroom house £179,950 £165,000 DOWN 8% 229 days (sa3) Tudor Court, Murton, Swansea 3 bedroom house £249,950 £229,950 DOWN 8% 229 days (sa3

I think you will find that property prices in Swansea are very quickly going down hill. I did until 6 years ago buy and sell houses in the Fforest Fach/Penplas area, all repossessions. If it follows the same trend as last time Sketty otherwise known as mortgage mountain will be suffering soon. I will probably go back in the business again shortly but this time go slightly up market. Check this out !!! http://www.propertysnake.co.uk/site/detail/4872838 Masked Tulip, You are right there have been lots of leakage problems in the new builds in SA1. The J shed flats and cafe downstairs Twocann were completely flooded about a week ago. There seems to be water pressure problems, it fluctuates wildly and hence the joints come under siege.

The WDA are definitely responsible for the building stoppage on that site, it can only be a grant problem. Why else would they get involved? Your source is absolutely correct, there are loads of people currently trying to off load their apartments, they are mainly buy-to-let investors in the older part of the marina. The reason being is that the older part is now seen as a bit of a slum whereas the new SA1 development on the other side of the river is currently seen as up market and where the rental market wish to live. You only have to look in D'Arcy's window to see the huge amount of rental property available. Rental returns are decreasing. As a matter of interest there are still apartments available in the 29 story block, the story about the billionaire arriving in his yacht to buy the 2 penthouses seems to be an urban myth as are the premier footballers clamouring to put their name down for top story apartments. I think they have decided on Dubai instead. The leakage problem is more to do with drainage than water leaks, remember these sewage facilities are probably Victorian or at least put in to facilitate the harbour buildings. I have a feeling that the drainage from Wind Street is currently flowing our way, What a horrible thought!!

That's the one. It was flying along and then nothing. The Development Board must have their reasons. Do you remember when young couples were queuing all night to put their names down for properties in the new SA1. They are not doing it now. Those developments on Trawler Road overlooking the dunes are terrible, they look like Soviet Stalag's when you drive into the inner court yard. £375.000 for a four bed town house which is in reality a three story terrace with garage. Who want's to look at drunks staggering around the dunes where they all seem to party when you go out on your balcony. I wonder how many properties are currently for sale in the whole of Swansea. It's all a bit of a worry. I spent 3 days in Cheltenham last week and there are houses there close to Montpellier within a similar price range to here,