BelfastVI Posted May 14, 2009 Share Posted May 14, 2009 Negiotation was tried with them and they didnt respond to the letter instead took the hardline approach sending threatening letters when asking for evidence for delays. Its not just a case of "now i can get out of the contract" as Screw them haha makes out. although after obviously being in the same devlopment as them I can see why they are joyous and certainly stressed, and finally now they have light at the end of the tunnel. ermm dont know about "fooling"? Basic contract law: If time is not of the essence, as in this case in realtion to the completion date, serve notice to complete, need to be able to complete on everyday of that notice, so if its 10 day notice you need to be able to complete on all 10 days. If they have applied for EOT however its down to them to prove that, and as each delay occurs they should inform the buyer and tell them the effect on the completion date. If they also agree to a completion date and they are clearly not finished then surely thats a no brainer? Some interesting recent articles: http://www.pla.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_fi..._Seitler_QC.pdf http://www.pla.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_fi..._Crampin_QC.pdf Basic contract law you can only pull the'too late' card when it is stated in the contract that time is of the essence. That means 'come hell or high water' the completion date must be on x date or the deal is off. Rarely used in conveyance for dwellings and, as you say, not in this case. That leaves a number of excuses that the developer can use to re-set or defer the completion date. I would be quite sure that it is down to the purchaser to prove that the extensions of time was not valid as I presume it will be the purchaser contesting this. But it depends on how each contract is structured. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BelfastVI Posted May 14, 2009 Share Posted May 14, 2009 Who is trying to milk money out of them? At the end of the day it's like this if you are referring to me, I said that was suggested to me the fact that these are the things which one may be able to sue for! You need to read more carefully before your jump to conclusions, the developer needs to be very careful because he does not know people's individual circumstances. This has caused people a lot of stress, he should have just been open and honest with people at the very start!!!! They have got very poor legal advice. Developers are not all greedy, ruthless some have been very reasonable and realistic, however this case is very different. I am sure that if they could or can they would love to screw everyone, so my adivce to you if be very careful, they are not on your side, cover your back! The developer did'nt give them this. They surly couldn't all have went to the same Solicitor firm. If they did get poor advice, they should address this with the practice in question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CreateP Posted May 14, 2009 Share Posted May 14, 2009 In reply to your question 'College Court Central Belf' yes I have been given a completion date which has now passed. To try to move this on I think it would be worth all who have purchased and are interested to meet. There will be no pressure at the meeting to force anyone into joining together, many may still want to pursue the issue on an individual basis, but the various strategies can be discussed, e.g. getting deposit back, looking for lowered value etc. Anyone who has any evidence that may assist others can bring it with them (assuming they are comfortable with doing so) and if people want to exchange contact details or attempt to pool their efforts they can do so. Just to throw a date out there I am proposing 10am this Saturday May 16th at an agreed public location in Belfast - I am open to suggestions. To make this worthwhile I think we would need a minimum of 6 people to agree to meet. Assuming 5 others agree I can confirm I will be there at whatever location selected. Please confirm if you would be able/willing to attend and feel free suggest location. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BelfastVI Posted May 14, 2009 Share Posted May 14, 2009 Negiotation was tried with them and they didnt respond to the letter instead took the hardline approach sending threatening letters when asking for evidence for delays. Its not just a case of "now i can get out of the contract" as Screw them haha makes out. although after obviously being in the same devlopment as them I can see why they are joyous and certainly stressed, and finally now they have light at the end of the tunnel. ermm dont know about "fooling"? Basic contract law: If time is not of the essence, as in this case in realtion to the completion date, serve notice to complete, need to be able to complete on everyday of that notice, so if its 10 day notice you need to be able to complete on all 10 days. If they have applied for EOT however its down to them to prove that, and as each delay occurs they should inform the buyer and tell them the effect on the completion date. If they also agree to a completion date and they are clearly not finished then surely thats a no brainer? Some interesting recent articles: http://www.pla.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_fi..._Seitler_QC.pdf http://www.pla.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_fi..._Crampin_QC.pdf Very interesting documents, particularly the Crampin one. I am a little dubious about the other. One thing that comes across is you must be 'Ready, able and willing' to complete on serving the notice to complete. This turns an ordinary contract into a time is off the essence contract, a very different beast. However if the completion date has been 'moved' it it the new current date that you are saying 'we must complete upon'. You may wish to challenge the legality of the delay, but when are you going to do that. If you issue the completion notice you are accepting the legality of the new date. If you challenge the reason for delay, you are stating you are not willing to complete on the new date which removes the future use of the completion notice. You really have to go to court to challenge the reason for delay and have it struck out (very difficult). By not challenging it you, by default have accepted it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flossietoots Posted May 14, 2009 Share Posted May 14, 2009 (edited) Is it all over yet?!!!! Oh no, another 6 months of waiting to find out whats going to happen. Aaaarrrgggghhh Edited May 14, 2009 by flossietoots Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
screw them haha Posted May 15, 2009 Share Posted May 15, 2009 I was not referring to anyone in particular but the tone has generally seemed to become aggressive on the part of the buyers. Whether you intend to take that approach or not, you are discussing it in public so there is no hiding the fact that it has crossed your mind.As for reading more carefully - I suggest that you type a little more carefully as well since your grammar is not at all easy to interpret! lol it was on purpose of course! i wanted you to have to work a little in order to understand me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CreateP Posted May 17, 2009 Share Posted May 17, 2009 This forum seems to have slowed so Im assuming everyone is following their individual strategies to get this sorted. I hope a positive outcome is found for everyone. I do think it is worthwhile however to keep this forum active and if possible post any progress made for the benefit of others in the same situation. Perhaps some time in the future it may yet turn out that our situation is best resolved by combining our efforts so we should keep this avenue open. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
is there any body there Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 This forum seems to have slowed so Im assuming everyone is following their individual strategies to get this sorted. I hope a positive outcome is found for everyone.I do think it is worthwhile however to keep this forum active and if possible post any progress made for the benefit of others in the same situation. Perhaps some time in the future it may yet turn out that our situation is best resolved by combining our efforts so we should keep this avenue open. Hi everyone Found this site by accident this morning. I have also bought an apartment in college court central. (I will give u a bit of background info) We received notification of the change of completion date in November 2008. new date to be summer 2009. We immediately contacted a solicitor with construction experience. Apparently if we did nothing it would be implied that we were willing to accept the new terms of the contract. We sent the developers solicitor a letter stating that we were not willing to wait untill the summer. We were prepared to extend the completion date from November 2008 to February 2009. (Reasionable extension of time clause) However the solicitor acting on behalf of the developer came back to us with a long list of reasons why they were completing later that agreed. Apparently there is a list in the contract section 7( a get out of jail clause). However, there is a principle in law. "Adjusteme generis rule" (Sorry but not too sure how to spell it). Apparently this means that delays must be the same as or similar to the list stated in section 7. The list sent to us is not covered. Most if not all were reasonably forseeable, and given the fact that we signed these contracts in June 2007 we should have been informed of a completion date change earlier. In Februrary we sent another letter stating that we are terminating the contract and demand our deposit back. Did not get it, our appartment in on floor 7, we have not been given a completion date yet or have been asked to complete. ( we have heard through the graevine that others on floor 7 have been sent notice to complete?? Is anyone further on yet, or got their money back? Is anyone prepared to make public their surveyors report?? Can the person who contacted NIE, or English heritage get in contact? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 Hi everyoneFound this site by accident this morning. I have also bought an apartment in college court central. (I will give u a bit of background info) We received notification of the change of completion date in November 2008. new date to be summer 2009. We immediately contacted a solicitor with construction experience. Apparently if we did nothing it would be implied that we were willing to accept the new terms of the contract. We sent the developers solicitor a letter stating that we were not willing to wait untill the summer. We were prepared to extend the completion date from November 2008 to February 2009. (Reasionable extension of time clause) However the solicitor acting on behalf of the developer came back to us with a long list of reasons why they were completing later that agreed. Apparently there is a list in the contract section 7( a get out of jail clause). However, there is a principle in law. "Adjusteme generis rule" (Sorry but not too sure how to spell it). Apparently this means that delays must be the same as or similar to the list stated in section 7. The list sent to us is not covered. Most if not all were reasonably forseeable, and given the fact that we signed these contracts in June 2007 we should have been informed of a completion date change earlier. In Februrary we sent another letter stating that we are terminating the contract and demand our deposit back. Did not get it, our appartment in on floor 7, we have not been given a completion date yet or have been asked to complete. ( we have heard through the graevine that others on floor 7 have been sent notice to complete?? Is anyone further on yet, or got their money back? Is anyone prepared to make public their surveyors report?? Can the person who contacted NIE, or English heritage get in contact? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 I too am in the same position. I received a letter last week saying that the apartment was ready. My husband & I went down to have a look and the builders were still on site. We took photos & brought them to our solicitor just incase we need to fall back on them. The bottom line is we want our deposit back & we don't want the apartment. As far as we are concerned the builders where in breach of contract. We too give them an extension of time until the end of January 2009 for completion. Our solicitor is trying to encourage us to join a group of people who are in the same position if we are to take the builders to court. This will cut down on court fees. If anyone has any ideas on how we can win this, please advise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VOK Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 Hi All with interests in CCC, i have been reading through the thread and seen suggestions about meeting up. Is it not in the best interests of everyone interested in furthering this situation that we get together at a time and place of convienience. To get some thoughts, suggestions and ideas down on the table to move forward before anymore time is wasted talking about this. As you know everyone on floors 1-4 have been served with completion notices! I look forward to some positive vibes! VOK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 One of the real reasons for the delay is that they decided to build an extra 3 apartments on top of the original 114, and an additional 2 commercial units on top of the original 5. The apartments are in my case instead of 850 sq/ft are 630sq/ft. The quality of the finishes is a joke, doors are slanty, the bath/showers and kitchens are poor. Honestly they have skimped on quality in order to get quantity and maximim profits. Its just about fit for social housing as someone else here said.We have been nothing but nice and complacent with the developer. Put up with their bullsh*t, taking 1 month to reply to letters so they could waste more time. We have asked for evidence to substanciate their reasons for an extension for time and they have not done so. I have evidence that none of their claims are valid(including the usual bad weather!lol). If they had have been reasonable and held their hands up and said sorry fair enough we are late in compeletion we shall knock of ?xx,xxx of the price for inconvience instead of lying and sending threatening comments along with sarcasism in some letters, then fair enough but they didnt. Someone did try to negoiate with them and didnt even get a response to the letter!!!lol Im happy enough with getting my deposit back. As thats the loss which I have incurred through no fault of my own. What is wrong is developers taking people to court when they are unable to complete at ?x, selling the property for a lowered sum, still making a profit and then bringing the original buyer to court for the difference! I dont know of any cases were the court has ordered anyone to pay the builder profit. If the builder actually suffered a loss and could only sell it for less than what he built it for then fair enough. I do know of one case in Belfast about 6 months ago were the builder did take the buyer to court and the judge basically said that imposing finaical difficulty on MR X would not help anyone. Hi, In reply to your letter above, I am in the same position. I have written a blog a few days ago, my name is Mrs. Can I ask you how you know that they have built another 3 apartments ontop of the original ones? The reason I am asking this as yesterday I was at the Planning Office in Belfast having a look at the Plans. After speaking with an advisor there he informed me that if the developer has built 3 more apartments onto the orginal ones then he failed to inform the planning office of this. Although this is not illegal to do so if these where on the orginal drawings, (if they weren't on the orginal drawings, then there might be a problem for the developer!) he cannot work with 2 plans bascially. I have requested the orginal drawings from the public records office which would have been before April 2007 to have a look at these and compare. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CreateP Posted August 19, 2009 Share Posted August 19, 2009 Hi Just checking if anyone has any further developments concerning this property. Have many been served a notice of completion, I have. Apparently there was an interesting programme on the BBC this evening regarding the issue of deposits for new properties but unfortunately I did not see it. I would be interested to hear from anyone who has, and if it had any relevant information. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CreateP Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 Thanks very much for the helpful information. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockyBalboa Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 Hi all, despite checking this forum on a reugular basis I seem ot have missed the last few posts. can you give any update? what happened when you contatcted your solicitor...were you able to achieve any negotiation on their failure to complete on time? I'm on the same (similar) position with James Clow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian h Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 Hi everyoneFound this site by accident this morning. I have also bought an apartment in college court central. (I will give u a bit of background info) We received notification of the change of completion date in November 2008. new date to be summer 2009. We immediately contacted a solicitor with construction experience. Apparently if we did nothing it would be implied that we were willing to accept the new terms of the contract. We sent the developers solicitor a letter stating that we were not willing to wait untill the summer. We were prepared to extend the completion date from November 2008 to February 2009. (Reasionable extension of time clause) However the solicitor acting on behalf of the developer came back to us with a long list of reasons why they were completing later that agreed. Apparently there is a list in the contract section 7( a get out of jail clause). However, there is a principle in law. "Adjusteme generis rule" (Sorry but not too sure how to spell it). Apparently this means that delays must be the same as or similar to the list stated in section 7. The list sent to us is not covered. Most if not all were reasonably forseeable, and given the fact that we signed these contracts in June 2007 we should have been informed of a completion date change earlier. In Februrary we sent another letter stating that we are terminating the contract and demand our deposit back. Did not get it, our appartment in on floor 7, we have not been given a completion date yet or have been asked to complete. ( we have heard through the graevine that others on floor 7 have been sent notice to complete?? Is anyone further on yet, or got their money back? Is anyone prepared to make public their surveyors report?? Can the person who contacted NIE, or English heritage get in contact? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian h Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 test Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
College Court Central Belf Posted September 9, 2009 Author Share Posted September 9, 2009 Just a quick note to let everyone be aware: *No one has moved into the apartments yet; despite completing the remaining floors in July 09. *Everyone recieved a letter basically saying they are going to sue; trying to play scare tactics *Just remember you will be only in breach of contract, if indeed their reasons for their extension of time they wanted are valid. I dont believe they are after quite some research into them. If anyone has any info regarding these especially the alleged delay regarding the tendering process and how one tenderer challenged the result that would be quite helpful. And just the other one is if anyone knew if it was Turley (the contractor) who started the excavation of the site in early summer 2007? But everyone is pretty much in the same boat I think after having spoke to a number of people. And also jsut remember dont be panicking - the developer is just as worried as you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subby Posted September 10, 2009 Share Posted September 10, 2009 (edited) If anyone wants to move this discussion to a private board then I've set up a sub-forum for College Court over on http://www.phpbb88.com/tq and anyone involved can discuss things away from public eyes (developers) Edited September 10, 2009 by subby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
talksalot81 Posted September 18, 2009 Share Posted September 18, 2009 Talk about pushing their luck.... in the first place, one breach of contract does not mean the other party is allowed to breach in retalliation. Then secondly, it is quite plausible that these people could not have met the contract anyhow. They may face a judge asking them to prove their ability to complete as agreed... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockyBalboa Posted September 18, 2009 Share Posted September 18, 2009 Talk about pushing their luck.... in the first place, one breach of contract does not mean the other party is allowed to breach in retalliation. Then secondly, it is quite plausible that these people could not have met the contract anyhow. They may face a judge asking them to prove their ability to complete as agreed... what are you on about? if one breaches surely no need to 'breach in retaliation' ..they couldn't honour their contract to complete in 08?...why you so pro the big man? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
talksalot81 Posted September 19, 2009 Share Posted September 19, 2009 what are you on about? if one breaches surely no need to 'breach in retaliation' ..they couldn't honour their contract to complete in 08?...why you so pro the big man? I am pointing out that this approach is very forceful. There is absolutely no suggestion of settlement/compromise/agreement. The buyers are saying "you are in breach and thus we will claim all costs that we can" - that is NOT the message that most people want to be hearing. Most off-plan buyers are in the opposite situation. A contract is not made of glass - a breach does not mean it is 'broken'. The contract still exists albeit now with one party having some potential claim upon the other. Thus the judge may very well base some judgement upon the present or past state of the contractors. If the buyers cannot demonstrate their ability to complete on the contract then they too would be in breach, a potentially more serious breach. I simply think that the buyers would have been better trying for a settlement of some sort. Trying to force the contract through on its original terms is dangerous to them and would prove disaterous for all those ormeau/titanic/arc people! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BelfastVI Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 Just a quick note to let everyone be aware:*Just remember you will be only in breach of contract, if indeed their reasons for their extension of time they wanted are valid. I dont believe they are after quite some research into them. If anyone has any info regarding these especially the alleged delay regarding the tendering process and how one tenderer challenged the result that would be quite helpful. And just the other one is if anyone knew if it was Turley (the contractor) who started the excavation of the site in early summer 2007? But everyone is pretty much in the same boat I think after having spoke to a number of people. And also jsut remember dont be panicking - the developer is just as worried as you! You cant argue this. First of all you would have had to object to the reasons for the extension at the time. Otherwise Estoppal comes to play. Secondly you would have had to been 'ready, able and willing' to complete on the original date and forced a 'breach', as you call it by issuing a 'notice to complete' within 14 days of the original completion notice. To do so you would have to have been 'in funds' ie have drawn down your mortgage into your Solicitors account. Very difficult to do, even if you had of thought of it as the valuer would have declared that the building was incomplete, but I'm sure that could have been legally dealt with. If you are only raising these issues now you will be asked one simple question, why did you not raise it at the time. You can't condition your 'breach' your failure to complete exists if you don't complete when the building is ready. You may challenge the date, but if you have delayed your concerns you are also at fault. I think what you are trying to say is you were mis-informed or deceived about the reasons for delay, which is a fair point. You will have to show that the reasons given, where taken to be genuine and caused you to defer or set-aside your genuine hardship that this caused you. Now -Were the reasons for delay forwarded at the time of notice or were they forwarded later on request. If you were just given a delay notice, without any reason for delay - and you didn't promptly query/object to this then its a beaten docket. You can't say you were mis-informed until you receive the actual reasons. Then you have to convince a Judge why you set aside the genuine hardships because of the tender issues etc. If you didn't object to the duration of the delay - then the cause can't be an issue. Your answer to this is - the market has changed and as a result I cannot get the funding I need. Unfortunately that is not a material consideration as far as the contract is concerned. On the bit about the developer. He/she is protected by a limited liability company, which does exactly what it says on the tin. You don't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
getdoon_weebobby Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 2 bed apartment just gone up for sale at College Central for 149.5Khttp://www.propertypal.com/403-college-central-belfast/73811 http://www.propertynews.com/brochure.php?r...&sort=added 119k Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
talksalot81 Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 You cant argue this. First of all you would have had to object to the reasons for the extension at the time. Otherwise Estoppal comes to play. Secondly you would have had to been 'ready, able and willing' to complete on the original date and forced a 'breach', as you call it by issuing a 'notice to complete' within 14 days of the original completion notice. To do so you would have to have been 'in funds' ie have drawn down your mortgage into your Solicitors account. Very difficult to do, even if you had of thought of it as the valuer would have declared that the building was incomplete, but I'm sure that could have been legally dealt with. If you are only raising these issues now you will be asked one simple question, why did you not raise it at the time. You can't condition your 'breach' your failure to complete exists if you don't complete when the building is ready. You may challenge the date, but if you have delayed your concerns you are also at fault. I think what you are trying to say is you were mis-informed or deceived about the reasons for delay, which is a fair point. You will have to show that the reasons given, where taken to be genuine and caused you to defer or set-aside your genuine hardship that this caused you. Now -Were the reasons for delay forwarded at the time of notice or were they forwarded later on request. If you were just given a delay notice, without any reason for delay - and you didn't promptly query/object to this then its a beaten docket. You can't say you were mis-informed until you receive the actual reasons. Then you have to convince a Judge why you set aside the genuine hardships because of the tender issues etc. If you didn't object to the duration of the delay - then the cause can't be an issue. Your answer to this is - the market has changed and as a result I cannot get the funding I need. Unfortunately that is not a material consideration as far as the contract is concerned. On the bit about the developer. He/she is protected by a limited liability company, which does exactly what it says on the tin. You don't. And hence why I suggested that the hard-line stance is a bad approach - it is not a clear cut case and could end up costing the buyers money in addition to that which they may yet be forced to pay. A settlement would have been wise but that only seems to be the favoured path when it happens to suit.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.