Whats The Worst That Can Happen?

[Alba]

My L.L. has just destroyed my trust by displaying a non caring attitude concerning a recent situation.

I believed that we had a good relationship but I am no longer confident that my deposit will be returned without any problems. Although there is no reason whatever for it not to be returned.

Should I retain the last months rent?

[MrShed]

What does the term in your AST say regarding the deposit?

[Magpie]

My L.L. has just destroyed my trust by displaying a non caring attitude concerning a recent situation.

I believed that we had a good relationship but I am no longer confident that my deposit will be returned without any problems. Although there is no reason whatever for it not to be returned.

Should I retain the last months rent?

Hi Alba,

Mr Shed will probably disagree (as a LL), but since I had too many landlords keep deposits for no reason, I generally take the view that on balance it's often a good idea to withhold the last month's rent and make it clear that the deposit is paying that month's rent, and that if the landlord has reasonable claims for damages they can send you the bill. If a landlord is good and decent (like Mr Shed!) I would trust them anyway, but if you have concerns this is certainly a fair option.

It basically just means that if there is a dispute they have to take you to small claims. But the alternative (until the law is changed) is that they often keep your deposit for spurious reasons, and it's then up to you to pursue them. Personally I'd rather go through the hassle of doing it this way than let yet another landlord mess me around. It's not legally ideal, but there's not an awful lot they can do about it except try to take you to small claims if you've done any damage (I'm assuming you haven't...)

Basically landlords often seem to think that cleaning a flat or giving it a lick of paint are reasonable deductions (which they're not) and as the money is in their hands it puts you in a position of weakness if you do pay the last month.

These are of course my opinions only, I'm not a lawyer etc etc

Edited April 26, 2006 by Magpie

[Guest muttley]

Alba....I'm a tenant in dispute over a partially withheld deposit.

I would say DO pay your last months rent, as not paying could prejudice your case should the landlord take you to court.( Maybe I'll change my mind if I lose! )

Try taking photographs of your flat/house and invite the landlord to be present for the final inspection. In particular, make copies of inventories....better still, get a signed copy from the agent/ landlord.

What makes you think the landlord will withhold your deposit?

[MrShed]

Actually Magpie I would probably advise to withhold the last months rent. However, I would want to know full details first such as the wording in the AST, and the situation that has led to this view.

[Magpie]

Actually Magpie I would probably advise to withhold the last months rent. However, I would want to know full details first such as the wording in the AST, and the situation that has led to this view.

Oh, OK, sorry for maligning you. I suppose it does also depend on what the cause for concern is and the AST wording.

Muttley's also right that if there's a dispute this choice might not look so good in court. But part of the calculation is also that, if you've really done nothing wrong, the landlord probably won't want to mess about going to court, so it's a decent bet that that won't matter.

[Alba]

Thanks for all your comments.

It says in the lease document that the deposit cannot be used to pay the last months rent.

Is the Unfair Contract Terms Act applicable?

[MrShed]

Is the Unfair Contract Terms Act applicable?

No. There isn't a great deal of difference anyway whether the clause says this or not, to be honest. What is the situation that has caused you to think this then?

[Alba]

Well, I have gone and done it! I have offered the deposit in place of the last months rent.

What can I legally expect to happen now?

As I said originally, what is the worst that can happen?

What can I do to protect myself?

Is there any danger of a CCJ?

If the Landlord serves me with court papers what should I do?..... etc etc.

[MrShed]

A CCJ only occurs if you do not pay up within 28 days or some such similar timescale(I forget exactly) after a court judgement has been made, so don't worry on that front. To protect yourself, simply ensure that the place is in as immaculate a condition as possible. Take photographic evidence and video evidence as much as possible before you leave. If you do this then he will have very little claim against you. Technically, he can sue you for the rent regardless. If he does however, then countersue for the deposit. As long as there are no deductions to be made, then the rule of offset will simply mean the cases "balance out".

Perhaps a silly question, but was the deposit one months rent?

[Alba]

A CCJ only occurs if you do not pay up within 28 days or some such similar timescale(I forget exactly) after a court judgement has been made, so don't worry on that front. To protect yourself, simply ensure that the place is in as immaculate a condition as possible. Take photographic evidence and video evidence as much as possible before you leave. If you do this then he will have very little claim against you. Technically, he can sue you for the rent regardless. If he does however, then countersue for the deposit. As long as there are no deductions to be made, then the rule of offset will simply mean the cases "balance out".

Perhaps a silly question, but was the deposit one months rent?

Many thanks for your reply.

Yes the deposit was equivalent to one months rent.

If there is a rule of offset would I have to pay the landlord's legal expenses?

I did not plan to provide a forwarding address, and I currently do not have one. Could this be a mistake if the landlord has nowhere to send the court papers? In other words could some sort of decree be published in a newspaper or whatever? I would not be aware of this and therefore could not respond.

What if the landlord stated he wanted to, but was unable to return the deposit because he did not have a forwarding address? Would it be the case that he could then sue for the rent and I could not counter sue for the deposit, thus putting me in a sticky position?

If I receive eviction papers or whatever within the next month, do I have an opportunity at that point to state why I am retaining the last months rent, in order to prevent eviction/court action continuing? How quickly could the landlord evict me?

[MrShed]

- You must be traced to an address to be served court notice.

- I am unsure about the legal expenses question....my guess would be that if he sued you, you would not contest the case as long as he did not contest your countersuit, in which case there would be no charges. If he contests your countersuit and you win, he would have to pay the charges. As far as I know!

- Being "unable" to return the deposit does not mean he no longer owes you it.

- He cannot evict you due to rent prior to you being 2 months in arrears, which you are obviously not going to be.

[Alba]

- You must be traced to an address to be served court notice.

- I am unsure about the legal expenses question....my guess would be that if he sued you, you would not contest the case as long as he did not contest your countersuit, in which case there would be no charges. If he contests your countersuit and you win, he would have to pay the charges. As far as I know!

- Being "unable" to return the deposit does not mean he no longer owes you it.

- He cannot evict you due to rent prior to you being 2 months in arrears, which you are obviously not going to be.

Thanks again

[Property Investor]

From what you say, you have something to hide.

If the property was presented to you in immaculate condition and was professional cleaned, you must give it back in the same condition, (but only if you signed an inventory to this effect)

There are 'dodgy' landlords out there who try and retain your deposit for their own wealth, but Mr Shed, myself, and many others try to be fair.

The point is, when you vacate the property, would you expect someone else could move in there in its current condition?

If answer is yes, then you shuld be entitiled to full deposit return.

If you have left it dirty, then LL would have to have the property cleaned and this can be taken out of your deposit.

I have owned properties where the tenant actually keeps the place cleaner than I would and have no qualms in returning the deposit in full.

BUT, some leave it like a pigsty. Guess what happens there.

All eceipts must be proivided though.

[Chrysalis]

I got mixed views on this.

In an ideal world you follow the law and contract and of course pay the rent make sure the property is in the same condition as when you moved in and give the landlord a decent amount of time to inspect it and return your deposit.

But this isnt an ideal world and people get greedy, my sister who had the same landlord as me broight a house and left on very bad terms with the landlord and I predicted and was right she didnt see a penny of her deposit back. I wont deny there was faults, she didnt repaint the walls back to original colour, she didnt hoover up, the oven was left dirty, and the fridge was dead but from wear and tear not physical damage.

The landlord told her she didnt get deposit back due to state of the property. bear in mind no physical damage but obviously walls wrong colour in 1 room and dirty carpets. Hardly adds up to £600. The fridge was a mute issue I believe since the landlord didnt mention it.

I have the same landlord but am on good terms with him and as I am sticking with him I do expect to not have a problem with the deposit, the current deposit he is taking off a new bigger deposit and as such its been assumed I keep it. Of course I wont know for sure until next month.

My current property is in good condition I will be painting the walls back before I leave and removing my shelves and filling the holes in wall and of course will clean up etc. I respect that it has to be left in good condition. I think I have been a good tenant and allowed a broken doorbell plus broken heating for 2 and half years, my only worry is he suddenly thinks I broke the heater when it was already broken, unlikely tho since I did report it soon after I moved in.

[Time to raise the rents.]

Some idiot obviously has no idea what decorators cost or what voids cost when decorating over tenants graffiti. 600 pounds is a fricking bargain for getting away with repainting someone elses property.

If I had my way they'd be doing community service!

[Chrysalis]

expensive decorators then charge £600 for 2 hours work.

I dont know the full details of what went on with my sister and the landlord so I wont take this further but if I was told I am losing £600 for painting 1 room I would dispute it to court.

[Time to raise the rents.]

expensive decorators then charge £600 for 2 hours work.

I dont know the full details of what went on with my sister and the landlord so I wont take this further but if I was told I am losing £600 for painting 1 room I would dispute it to court.

I would charge you for lost rent while I waited for the decoration, for labour, materials and a reasonable amount for my time. I might also charge you for the expense of housing my new tenants who couldn't move in because of the decoration going on.

Did't you know that you weren't allowed to decorate my place?

If it was as easy as 2 hours work, why don't you sort it? Too lazy?

[Chrysalis]

my landlord who was also my sisters landlord allows repainting.

You talking like its a divine right to have no period of having no tenants void period?

Personally I think a landlord if he is decent should inspect a place after previous tenants left, do it up if needed and then put on the market, especially after a long period of tenancy ie. 6 years.

They should plan for and expect gaps in tenancy, its my opinion, but putting something on the market whilst the old tenant is still there and you havent seen what the current condition is just to avoid a month or 2 of no rent doesnt say to me you care about the quality of the place too much.

When I moved into my current place, the doorbell didnt work and the heater didnt work, I would expect my landlord to have dealt with this after the previous tenant left, when I told him he was unaware so after seeing how he does work I can only assume like yourself he simply put on the market at the earliest oppurtunity.

The law tells me this place isnt habitable and I could legally reclaim all my rent back but I let it be for the sake of good relations with my landlord and just used a fan electric heater.

I already said regarding my sister no doubt she should have had 'some' money taken for the painting and oven, but you seem to think you can legally take money for lost rent and other things and that simply isnt the case. Its either for damage to the property or for rent arrears. The property been empty after a tenant leaves is something you should expect and plan for.

My own place I will be painting back myself £10 for paint and brushes and be done in an hour.

Edited May 21, 2006 by Chrysalis

[Time to raise the rents.]

my landlord who was also my sisters landlord allows repainting.

You talking like its a divine right to have no period of having no tenants void period?

Personally I think a landlord if he is decent should inspect a place after previous tenants left, do it up if needed and then put on the market, especially after a long period of tenancy ie. 6 years.

They should plan for and expect gaps in tenancy, its my opinion, but putting something on the market whilst the old tenant is still there and you havent seen what the current condition is just to avoid a month or 2 of no rent doesnt say to me you care about the quality of the place too much.

When I moved into my current place, the doorbell didnt work and the heater didnt work, I would expect my landlord to have dealt with this after the previous tenant left, when I told him he was unaware so after seeing how he does work I can only assume like yourself he simply put on the market at the earliest oppurtunity.

The law tells me this place isnt habitable and I could legally reclaim all my rent back but I let it be for the sake of good relations with my landlord and just used a fan electric heater.

I already said regarding my sister no doubt she should have had 'some' money taken for the painting and oven, but you seem to think you can legally take money for lost rent and other things and that simply isnt the case. Its either for damage to the property or for rent arrears. The property been empty after a tenant leaves is something you should expect and plan for.

My own place I will be painting back myself £10 for paint and brushes and be done in an hour.

You are a mental case if you think a doorbell & a heater makes a place uninhabitable!!!!

You are obviously a nightmare tenant, please steer clear of decent landlords like me who like to deal with decent tenants.

And BTW, not 1 days void in 9 years. Not 1 day!

[Chrysalis]

the law says which I read after finding this site that rent cant be charged for place that has no heating.

[Time to raise the rents.]

the law says which I read after finding this site that rent cant be charged for place that has no heating.

You're kidding yourself in a lot of ways. You are welcome to do more reasearch and tell me about it.

Hint: I know the rules better than you do & I know the regulation you speak of.

[Chrysalis]

rent cant be charged bit far fetched sorry, but broken heating is supposed to be fixed by landlord according to this. I understand tho for him to do it I should have told him last time he tried to have it fixed he sent a cowboy and so it wasnt fixed.

http://england.shelter.org.uk/advice/advice-2934.cfm

[Time to raise the rents.]

rent cant be charged bit far fetched sorry, but broken heating is supposed to be fixed by landlord according to this. I understand tho for him to do it I should have told him last time he tried to have it fixed he sent a cowboy and so it wasnt fixed.

http://england.shelter.org.uk/advice/advice-2934.cfm

Anytime you want to take back your previous comment you are welcome.

[Chrysalis]

sure, after reading more og your posts I just see it is your nature the way you explain things. I apologise.

Also after reading more into what you say I realise whilst you are strict in some terms of your agreements you do take pride in keeping your properties in good shape.