DTMark Posted June 1, 2013 Share Posted June 1, 2013 Hasn't happened to me but to a relative. The devil's advocate part of me has been stirred by this. Assume for a moment that a car is parked illegally and is towed to a pound. The towing company then want to be compensated for that, acting on instructions from either a land owner or maybe the Police. Assume this then correctly renders the owner liable to pay for that service. However by what authority does the towing company keep the car until payment is made? The towing company has no contract, as far as I can see, with the owner of the car. In what way have the towing company not committed the criminal offence of "taking without consent" and, by refusing to release it until payment, in what way do they not wilfully commit this offence? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bemusedmover Posted June 1, 2013 Share Posted June 1, 2013 Hasn't happened to me but to a relative. The devil's advocate part of me has been stirred by this. Assume for a moment that a car is parked illegally and is towed to a pound. The towing company then want to be compensated for that, acting on instructions from either a land owner or maybe the Police. Assume this then correctly renders the owner liable to pay for that service. However by what authority does the towing company keep the car until payment is made? The towing company has no contract, as far as I can see, with the owner of the car. In what way have the towing company not committed the criminal offence of "taking without consent" and, by refusing to release it until payment, in what way do they not wilfully commit this offence? Depends on where they were towed from...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNACR Posted June 1, 2013 Share Posted June 1, 2013 I've always been tempted to get an old Mondeo estate or something, weld some struts in to stop the suspension sinking down to the bump stops, put the rear seats down and cover the boot floor with about 5 tonnes of lead ingots covered with a dog blanket. Then park it illegally in London and hide and wait for the tow truck to come and attempt to lift it in on the back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motch Posted June 1, 2013 Share Posted June 1, 2013 I've always been tempted to get an old Mondeo estate or something, weld some struts in to stop the suspension sinking down to the bump stops, put the rear seats down and cover the boot floor with about 5 tonnes of lead ingots covered with a dog blanket. Then park it illegally in London and hide and wait for the tow truck to come and attempt to lift it in on the back. for more comedy effect could use the smallest car you could possibly find that's not a classic (was thinking like a old fiat 500 size car or citroen 2cv size) and video it for you tube. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DTMark Posted June 1, 2013 Author Share Posted June 1, 2013 I've always been tempted to get an old Mondeo estate or something, weld some struts in to stop the suspension sinking down to the bump stops, put the rear seats down and cover the boot floor with about 5 tonnes of lead ingots covered with a dog blanket. Then park it illegally in London and hide and wait for the tow truck to come and attempt to lift it in on the back. I remember watching the car towers in Central London in action once - queueing to get into a club the name of which escapes me ("Home" springs to mind), it closed down soon after opening, in Leicester Square on the "Trocadero side" - a group of mates turn up in two cars, and there's only space for one car, the gap was big enough for both cars but one would overlap the double-yellow lines. They hatched a plan and parked so that the car on the double yellows - adjacent to a skip - had its nose underneath the edge of the skip so it would not be able to be vertically lifted with the second car almost touching bumpers with it. They thought they would get away with this. As the entire queue watched (the drivers had gone), it took twenty minutes, but they did manage - by lifting one side, then the other alternately and so on, to pull it up out of the gap without hitting anything and drove off with it. They're highly creative Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Knimbies who say No Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 Hasn't happened to me but to a relative. The devil's advocate part of me has been stirred by this. Assume for a moment that a car is parked illegally and is towed to a pound. The towing company then want to be compensated for that, acting on instructions from either a land owner or maybe the Police. Assume this then correctly renders the owner liable to pay for that service. However by what authority does the towing company keep the car until payment is made? The towing company has no contract, as far as I can see, with the owner of the car. In what way have the towing company not committed the criminal offence of "taking without consent" and, by refusing to release it until payment, in what way do they not wilfully commit this offence? Hmm, laws in relation to cars are funny, it's to do with the ownership status-a registered keeper is not an owner in the same way purchasing a TV or sandwich gives you ownership, as I understand it at least. I think this is why your car can be confiscated and crushed when other private property can not. Scary thing is that parking companies are lobbying so that they get direct access to the DVLA database so they dont have to go to the hassle of clamping/towing to extract vast sums from motorists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rave Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 I remember watching the car towers in Central London in action once - queueing to get into a club the name of which escapes me ("Home" springs to mind), it closed down soon after opening, in Leicester Square on the "Trocadero side" It was indeed Home. I never went, though it sounded pretty good to me. Sorry to rant instead of answering your question, but I really hate this idea of the police being able to get licensed premises where criminal activity occurs shut down under licensing laws. So a pub or club causes consistent trouble- deal with the lawbreaking, THAT'S YOUR FACKIN JOB! Don't just shut the place down and make it someone else's problem, you lazy bastards! :angry: I long for the day when drug use is decriminalised and so 50% of the police's workload is removed. Then they can sack 50% of them. Lazy, nasty VI twunts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DTMark Posted June 2, 2013 Author Share Posted June 2, 2013 Depends on where they were towed from...... Does it though? (It was a fair while back, it's only that this came up in conversation recently) If someone throws a ball into my garden and I give it back or put it outside the gate, I haven't stolen anything. If on the other hand I refuse to give it back, I have taken it without consent, because it does not belong to me. If I do not return it then that's theft. The fact that the ball was somewhere it ought not to have been (on my premises) does not change that. So if the towing company refuses to give the car back, isn't that theft? The fact that a bill may be outstanding would not seem to have anything to do with the entirely separate issue of the vehicle being taken without consent. So I'm intrigued as to how companies that do this can avoid prosecution and what immunity they have. The law might well say that if you break down on a motorway and have to be towed, you have some sort of implied contact with the towing company but there's a safety aspect there and most people accept this. Hmm, laws in relation to cars are funny, it's to do with the ownership status-a registered keeper is not an owner in the same way purchasing a TV or sandwich gives you ownership, as I understand it at least. I think this is why your car can be confiscated and crushed when other private property can not. Scary thing is that parking companies are lobbying so that they get direct access to the DVLA database so they dont have to go to the hassle of clamping/towing to extract vast sums from motorists. I suspect it does indeed have something to do with this... It was indeed Home. I never went, though it sounded pretty good to me. Sorry to rant instead of answering your question, but I really hate this idea of the police being able to get licensed premises where criminal activity occurs shut down under licensing laws. So a pub or club causes consistent trouble- deal with the lawbreaking, THAT'S YOUR FACKIN JOB! Don't just shut the place down and make it someone else's problem, you lazy bastards! :angry: I long for the day when drug use is decriminalised and so 50% of the police's workload is removed. Then they can sack 50% of them. Lazy, nasty VI twunts. Well, I went, and we didn't get in - the club became full when there were about 50 people in front of us and we never did try again. I heard it was very good, though. Lived in Blackpool for a while, council always playing the "poor" card ("we're doomed, there's no money, people just aren't coming"), and someone opened a very successful nightclub which attracted some top names. The council shut that one down, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rave Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 Well, I went, and we didn't get in - the club became full when there were about 50 people in front of us and we never did try again. I heard it was very good, though.Lived in Blackpool for a while, council always playing the "poor" card ("we're doomed, there's no money, people just aren't coming"), and someone opened a very successful nightclub which attracted some top names. The council shut that one down, too. I've been to the Ministry of Sound four times. First time I got in, and enjoyed it, though I didn't even find the main room with its dangerous sound levels until about 5am (danced in the bar/a second room in the meantime). Secong time I went with my mate and got refused on the door- I then blacked out and woke up 4h later walking along the Old Kent Road- jumped on a 185 bus and did 2 /1/2 trips on it asleep before I woke up in Caford and walked home. Third time I somehow got in and stayed in. The fourth time I have no idea what happened- refused entry, my mate got shoved in and didn't want to come to my aid, and I was awakened on the floor of the Dulwich College boarding house by the housemaster. He grilled me about which of his charges had deposited me there, but I was unable to oblige. If fairness to him he topped up my bus change by 50p so I had a chance of getting home. Checked my online banking later and I'd apparently bought some fags in a petrol station, but otherwise no financial loss. Getting home to SE6 was a long trek but I eventually managed it, caught the national express bus home still retching my guts out, and slept on the floor of the shop in Southampton that was my employer at the time for a further 24h., to the consternation of the newsagent next door, who couldn't figure out why the side door of our shop was wide open on a Sunday! TBH, I'm not sorry I'm married, probably saved me from a great deal more craziness TBh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest eight Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 Does it though? (It was a fair while back, it's only that this came up in conversation recently) If someone throws a ball into my garden and I give it back or put it outside the gate, I haven't stolen anything. If on the other hand I refuse to give it back, I have taken it without consent, because it does not belong to me. If I do not return it then that's theft. The fact that the ball was somewhere it ought not to have been (on my premises) does not change that. So if the towing company refuses to give the car back, isn't that theft? Would be interesting if you could somehow gain access to it and attempt to drive it home. How far could they go to stop you? My friend had a similar one. He was on a train that broke down within sight of a station. They were stuck there for something like three hours before somebody broke a window and some (actually apparently quite a lot) people jumped out and just walked off. The transport police made a lot of noise about trespass, criminal damage etc. but they threatened to counter with false imprisonment and no more was ever heard about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
19 year mortgage 8itch Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 I had assumed that towing was now banned like clamping for parking on private land. Illegal parking aside Saw a DVLA clamp yesterday. Presumably untaxed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChumpusRex Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 I seem to recall, from when I lived in Cambridge, that the City council decided to implement a blanket tow-away policy for illegal parking. If you parked on double yellows in the city centre, the car would be towed away, regardless of whether it was actually causing an obstruction at the time. This was rather short lived, as apparently, someone managed to claim a breach of human rights by being deprived of their property where it was not causing a general nuisance, and a more reasonable penalty would have been to ticket the car instead. Perhaps, I'm recalling wrong, or maybe I just read it in the daily fail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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