Gas Bills

[Guest crashdesk]

HI,

I am interested in putting an offer on a property which has Phoenix Gas.

I currently rent and pay for gas using a top-up card. It currently works out at £10 a month.

I think moving into a house where I would be getting quarterly gas bills and was wondering if usage is approximated. It is quite off putting because at the moment I pay for what I use. If that is the case, is there a way to have me billed for what I have used and not what they think I've used.

Many thanks,

C

[pootle]

Gas, like electricity, is metered at the point it enters the house. So when you move in, take a reading off both meters and provide them to the supplying company. After that they will try and take meter readings - if they can't take a meter reading then they approximate the reading or leave a card asking you to phone them with a reading. Either way, they will eventually take a verified reading and they will know exactly how much you have used. If you provide them with accurate interim readings then you won't have a nasty shock of having to stomp up more cash because you have underpaid.

[Ride_on]

Phoenix only take a yearly reading if you go on monthly direct debit, I setup to pay £35/month but was using more like £500 in the winter. They basically average it out according to your last years usage + what you owe to be cleared fairly quickly.

If you go for quarterly billing they take a reading quarterly.

After I did my own reading 8 months in, I worked out I owed them £2,500, the heating system + house was in a terrible state.

£10/month is nothing, you must never be there, or its a well built modern property. Even our flat was £60/month, but I did work from home and it was an old building.

If you are moving I would ask for old gas bills, and any usage info you can get. Much more useful than EPC. I don't know if anyone has ever had any success with asking for bills yet.

[pootle]

Phoenix only take a yearly reading if you go on monthly direct debit, I setup to pay £35/month but was using more like £500 in the winter. They basically average it out according to your last years usage + what you owe to be cleared fairly quickly.

If you go for quarterly billing they take a reading quarterly.

After I did my own reading 8 months in, I worked out I owed them £2,500, the heating system + house was in a terrible state.

£10/month is nothing, you must never be there, or its a well built modern property. Even our flat was £60/month, but I did work from home and it was an old building.

If you are moving I would ask for old gas bills, and any usage info you can get. Much more useful than EPC. I don't know if anyone has ever had any success with asking for bills yet.

Sheeeeeeeet! That's mental!

[Guest crashdesk]

Phoenix only take a yearly reading if you go on monthly direct debit, I setup to pay £35/month but was using more like £500 in the winter. They basically average it out according to your last years usage + what you owe to be cleared fairly quickly.

Mmmm. As you can see I don't use much. So what you are saying is that the prevoius owner of the property could be using his gas all the time and my first bill could be a monster. Is that even legal since it wasn't me that used it?

My monthly gas usage is average. 1 bed apartment, Kitchen/Dining area, Licing room and Bathroom. Out at work 9-5 back home in evenings. Usual weekend out during some of the day. The gas does heating, water and cooker. Amazing really!

Edited March 26, 2010 by crashdesk

[pootle]

Mmmm. As you can see I don't use much. So what you are saying is that the prevoius owner of the property could be using his gas all the time and my first bill could be a monster. Is that even legal since it wasn't me that used it?

My monthly gas usage is average. 1 bed apartment, Kitchen/Dining area, Licing room and Bathroom. Out at work 9-5 back home in evenings. Usual weekend out during some of the day. The gas does heating, water and cooker. Amazing really!

NO! You are NOT paying for anything that you haven't used. Going back to your original post (or the thread sub-title), there seems to be a misunderstanding about whether gas and electricity are metered or estimated. BOTH are metered. When you move in you have to sign a contract with the utility companies - part of that is telling them what the meter readings are at the point you take possession of the house. You are not liable for anything used up to that point. On a continuing basis you are only liable for the gas and electricity you actually use (as measured by the meters). You may pay estimated bills, but these will always be reconciled to actual usage on a (normally) yearly basis.

As pointed out by Ride_on, if you pay by monthly direct debit then what they do is look at where you live and who lives there (i.e. number of adults, kids etc). They then estimate your usage based on the average usage for a similar sized place and occupancy. They then debit you based on this avergae figure. If you use less than the average then you will get money back from the company at the end of the year, but if you use more than the average then you will have to pay extra at the end of the year. If you keep an eye on your actual usage (based on your meter readings) and feel that the estimate is wrong (either too high or too low) then you can request an adjustment to your monthly payments so that no year-end adjustment is required.

Edited March 26, 2010 by pootle

[Ride_on]

NO! You are NOT paying for anything that you haven't used. Going back to your original post (or the thread sub-title), there seems to be a misunderstanding about whether gas and electricity are metered or estimated. BOTH are metered. When you move in you have to sign a contract with the utility companies - part of that is telling them what the meter readings are at the point you take possession of the house. You are not liable for anything used up to that point. On a continuing basis you are only liable for the gas and electricity you actually use (as measured by the meters). You may pay estimated bills, but these will always be reconciled to actual usage on a (normally) yearly basis.

As pointed out by Ride_on, if you pay by monthly direct debit then what they do is look at where you live and who lives there (i.e. number of adults, kids etc). They then estimate your usage based on the average usage for a similar sized place and occupancy. They then debit you based on this avergae figure. If you use less than the average then you will get money back from the company at the end of the year, but if you use more than the average then you will have to pay extra at the end of the year. If you keep an eye on your actual usage (based on your meter readings) and feel that the estimate is wrong (either too high or too low) then you can request an adjustment to your monthly payments so that no year-end adjustment is required.

Yes, he may have been confused by the passing over of prepaid loads on the meter between tennants or landlords. Energy is normally metered exactly when its not prepaid, but can be estimated or averaged throughout the contract. You settle up to an exact point/date if you wish to close the account. The account is attached to you, not the property alone.

When I started with Phoenix on my new rented house they just asked me what I wanted to pay on the DD, I opted for a bit more than the flat, but I did have in my head that the more modern house (60s) would be more efficient...ha.

Anyway to the OP, is not just about how long you use it for, it is also how easy the property is to heat which is a huge variable.

Edited March 26, 2010 by Ride_on

[subby]

I pay £35 a month by top up card, even if I turn the heating off during the summer months when it's too warm. That way I make a bank of credit that I go through during the winter months so as long as you keep adding during the summer you'll not get hit hard for a large bill in the colder months

[Guest crashdesk]

Excellent summary and advice. This helps a lot!

[Ride_on]

I should probably clarify a bit more.

On the account system (direct debit or qtrly billing) you agree a starting reading that you are responsible for everything after this. You owe nothing at the point and any discrepancy between it and the previous occupants finishing reading are between Pheonix and them or the LL.

If you are on direct debit you agree a monthly payment, and start paying that monthly. After 1 year they take another reading and work out what you have used on average, subtract what you have paid and work out a new monthly payment to overpay or under pay depending on the difference, they try to get payback within 6 months of what you owe, so you will overpay in the 2nd half unless you phone them to adjust the payment. After the second year it should be closer to your average usage, but of course is affected by unit price/weather/improvements and so on.

It is pretty ridiculous how they arrive at your monthly DD (in my case, just what I suggested, no other questions), and can get off by a huge amount and not identify any problems. Really they should be doing quarterly readings for the first year IMO or at least warning you to do so. They still send out quarterly bills but they are always estimated, and I did not understand that at the time, and for previous 5 years in the flat.

For this reason I'd recommend quarterly billing and not direct debit so you have a chance to see what is going on. Prepaid is even better to help you keep track of usage. All these other forms of payment are just ways to hide the cost from you so you use more. Just like mobile phone companies, they used to tell you how much a call cost, now they say how much balance you have left or don't mention it atall in the case of contracts. Ignorance is bliss, and more profit for the supplier until you have to pay and can't.

[crashdesk2]

Sorry to bring this up again, but I have a few more views from people. One says DD is the cheapest way to pay and another says Depends on how much you use - "I'm a low user and due to prompt payment discounts, a standard tariff with quarterly payments works out cheaper for me."

Does Phoenix offer discount for swift payment? First I've heard of it.

Thanks

[Ride_on]

Sorry to bring this up again, but I have a few more views from people. One says DD is the cheapest way to pay and another says Depends on how much you use - "I'm a low user and due to prompt payment discounts, a standard tariff with quarterly payments works out cheaper for me."

Does Phoenix offer discount for swift payment? First I've heard of it.

Thanks

I think there is a discount for DD and a premium for pre-paid (which also is more like credit rather than advance purchase because they can vary the price per unit after you buy), otherwise no other different tariffs I am aware of. I really don't think the various discounts make much difference, the main variable is how efficient your home is.

[2buyornot2buy]

I think it is actually the other way around with a small discount circa 2.5% applies to the prepaid tariff. I know this is definitely the case with NIE. The argument being that prepaid ensures collection and reimbursement of debts and is usually taken on by less well off users.