Teachers Finally To Get Justice

[Guest AuntJess]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/8152453.stm

I knew a really top guy: went to the wall after the slob parents - of ghastly offspring - and LEA had finished with him:He was found innocent - after months of waiting and shilly-shallying - but he still had to retire early, due to his nervous breakdown. :angry:

[Boomer!]

False allegations also risk undermining genuine allegations.

This country is just full of scum, liars and attention whores.

[tinker]

This is good news.

Oh for the days when teachers could shout at pupils or use a projectile board duster to make a point!

Actually, this all goes back to the introduction of the ambulance-chasing compensation culture (from America) that has changed this country in so many ways. The fast buck, the 'I'll get you' grievance, the 'I know my rights'...

And as has been pointed out it also undermines the genuine cases.

It was obvious that this was becoming a problem, yet the authorities did nothing to temper it...

So many lives ruined, and many more oppressed and stifled by fear. Those that seem to have excelled in this 'cultural malaise' have been the ones who really shouldn't have any say on how the country is run.

[The Ayatollah Buggeri]

NuLab moron quoted in the report:

"Children making false allegations often have complex needs, and in some cases may be trying to draw attention to abuse or other issues elsewhere in their life rather than being deliberately malicious."

I don't believe that for one instant. What I'd like to see is some statistics documenting how many of these allegations followed some kind of sanction being imposed against the pupil making it, e.g. a low mark, detention etc. etc.

What the vast majority of children who make such allegations need is coming down on like a ton of bricks. And their parent(s), too, if they supported the claim.

[Guest AuntJess]

NuLab moron quoted in the report:

I don't believe that for one instant. What I'd like to see is some statistics documenting how many of these allegations followed some kind of sanction being imposed against the pupil making it, e.g. a low mark, detention etc. etc.

What the vast majority of children who make such allegations need is coming down on like a ton of bricks. And their parent(s), too, if they supported the claim.

Too right! and I think a good few of us need to get genned up on counter-sueing: I once threatened a council official with this, after he said that the council would sue me - for something I never did as it happens!!

Boy did he change tack fast....Faster than you can say 'spit'.

The only drawback is that, I suspect in most cases, the tax-payer would be footing the bill for Mr and Mrs Wayne Slob. :angry:

[Guest AuntJess]

This is good news.

Oh for the days when teachers could shout at pupils or use a projectile board duster to make a point!

Actually, this all goes back to the introduction of the ambulance-chasing compensation culture (from America) that has changed this country in so many ways. The fast buck, the 'I'll get you' grievance, the 'I know my rights'...

And as has been pointed out it also undermines the genuine cases.

It was obvious that this was becoming a problem, yet the authorities did nothing to temper it...

So many lives ruined, and many more oppressed and stifled by fear. Those that seem to have excelled in this 'cultural malaise' have been the ones who really shouldn't have any say on how the country is run.

Yeah. We always seem to follow America in trends - good and bad.

[Prescience]

I once wasted most of a day, Auntie, attending a formal hearing where a senior teacher had been unjustly pilloried by "The System". (Was a County Council Co-opted Secondary School Governor).

In order to defend himself and more critically, his employment record, the poor man had to hire expensive solicitors.

The LEA of course came tooled up and loaded for bear: and failed to win the solid decision they hoped for.

Trouble is kids - who are always very astute and devious - have been, together with their doting parents, assured repeatedly of "Their Rights": and any reasonble teacher attempting to cogent chastisement is invariably greeted with the scumbag retort "I'll have you done!"

Thus the lunatics came to be in charge of the asylum.

No wonder to me, therefore, that quasi-literacy has become the norm.

Education has been wholly devalued: and the old profession, "Teacher" is gone and dusted.

The prototypical chalk dust spattered pedagogue, who worked out of volition rather than financial reward and enjoyed the whole respect of their community has been dead as the Dodo now for many years.

I am eternally thankful and appreciative that in junior school, particularly and later Grammar school, I was educated by real teachers in an atmosphere of imposed discipline and a rigorous classics teaching environment.

[CokeSnortingTory]

I don't understand why anybody would want to be a teacher if the perk of being able to hit children is taken away from you.

[CokeSnortingTory]

I once wasted most of a day, Auntie, attending a formal hearing where a senior teacher had been unjustly pilloried by "The System". (Was a County Council Co-opted Secondary School Governor).

In order to defend himself and more critically, his employment record, the poor man had to hire expensive solicitors.

The LEA of course came tooled up and loaded for bear: and failed to win the solid decision they hoped for.

Trouble is kids - who are always very astute and devious - have been, together with their doting parents, assured repeatedly of "Their Rights": and any reasonble teacher attempting to cogent chastisement is invariably greeted with the scumbag retort "I'll have you done!"

Thus the lunatics came to be in charge of the asylum.

No wonder to me, therefore, that quasi-literacy has become the norm.

Education has been wholly devalued: and the old profession, "Teacher" is gone and dusted.

The prototypical chalk dust spattered pedagogue, who worked out of volition rather than financial reward and enjoyed the whole respect of their community has been dead as the Dodo now for many years.

I am eternally thankful and appreciative that in junior school, particularly and later Grammar school, I was educated by real teachers in an atmosphere of imposed discipline and a rigorous classics teaching environment.

Teachers could easily rebalance the system by going on strike. As the NUT only ever goes on strike over pay, it gives you a good indication of what teachers priorities have been over the last 30+ years.

[tinker]

Teachers could easily rebalance the system by going on strike. As the NUT only ever goes on strike over pay, it gives you a good indication of what teachers priorities have been over the last 30+ years.

An excellent point!

[I_Claudius]

I once wasted most of a day, Auntie, attending a formal hearing where a senior teacher had been unjustly pilloried by "The System". (Was a County Council Co-opted Secondary School Governor).

In order to defend himself and more critically, his employment record, the poor man had to hire expensive solicitors.

Surprised this teacher wasn't provided legal representation by his or her union tbh

[Cogs]

An excellent point!

Deeply, deeply, painfully stupid point.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/158...n-21-years.html

21 years without a strike. Looks like the priority was doing the job after all.

And if they did go on strike over the issues identified, CokesnortingDavidCameron here would still be saying they were greedy and it was really only about money anyway (this is what the employers always say in these cases after all and they just keep offering you money, eventually you can either lose your job because they won't shift or take a pay rise... its a trap really).

[Cogs]

Education has been wholly devalued: and the old profession, "Teacher" is gone and dusted.

The prototypical chalk dust spattered pedagogue, who worked out of volition rather than financial reward and enjoyed the whole respect of their community has been dead as the Dodo now for many years.

Well you are certainly doing your best to make sure this remains the case.

The word is 'vocation' by the way, perhaps your Grammar School wasn't all you thought it was.

[Prescience]

Teachers could easily rebalance the system by going on strike. As the NUT only ever goes on strike over pay, it gives you a good indication of what teachers priorities have been over the last 30+ years.

Militant "Teachers", of course and their newish unions, came about as a direct result of Government's typical kneejerk in the 1960s: when they realised (far too late: what's new?) a post-war baby boom meant a shortage of teachers.

So anyone with a couple of O levels could do a One Year course and become a "Teacher".

And many did.

And thereafter, an intense jealousy developed between traditional old university plus one years post-degree mandatory study; and the noveau breed: mainly since under the old Burnham Scale (From memory) properly qualified teachers were paid more.

The noveau genre of teachers, of course, tended also to be the slavish sycophants of the comprehensive system and rapid anti Grammar School militants too.

To me, rather the same as Thatcher's converting old polytechs and technical colleges into PolyTech "universities".

Amazes me when I drive past a local mixed primary and junior school, how many "teachers" swan up to work in Beemas and top-end 4 X 4s................................................

[Guest Skinty]

I don't understand why anybody would want to be a teacher if the perk of being able to hit children is taken away from you.

There's still psychological torture.

Not as immediately satisfying though but the effect it has is more permanent.

[Cogs]

The noveau genre of teachers, of course, tended also to be the slavish sycophants of the comprehensive system and rapid anti Grammar School militants too.

To me, rather the same as Thatcher's converting old polytechs and technical colleges into PolyTech "universities".

Complete twaddle from you yet again.

There were two routes to qualification, degree (PGCE optional), and three years at a teacher training college (2 years prior to 1962). The 1970s saw the advent of the BEd. degree. There was some resentment because degree qualified teachers were paid more, although the BEd either had the same training pretty much as the college lot or even in the case of the BSc/BA didn't even have a teaching qualifiation (hence games with the term 'unqualified teacher', only as such found in the private sector in truth). They also tended to be men whereas women attended colleges of education, this prior to the equal pay act led to significant inequalities in reward for equal work.

And do you actually know which Education Secretary destroyed the largest number of Grammar Schools?

Go away and look it up.

Re: "Beemas" and "4x4s", I would like to know how you intend to stop teachers from marrying rich men!

[tinker]

Deeply, deeply, painfully stupid point.

Cogs, you hurt my feelings.

Sometimes a principle is worth fighting for, sometimes rolling over and accepting something that is wrong is the worst thing to do.

I'm not sure that for all of the rhetoric of improved educational standards, it is wise not to question the grade inflation - and therefore 'super-dooper' teaching - of the last decade?

Teachers have done alright over the last decade, I'm not sure the same can be said about their charges. Are they really equipped and inspired for what lies ahead or are they victims of a deception?

Of course, every man has his price for compliance or silence.

[Johnny Storm]

Seeing the state of the kids and their education dont teachers deserve everything they get?

Those that cant, teach.

[Cogs]

Cogs, you hurt my feelings.

Sometimes a principle is worth fighting for, sometimes rolling over and accepting something that is wrong is the worst thing to do.

I'm not sure that for all of the rhetoric of improved educational standards, it is wise not to question the grade inflation - and therefore 'super-dooper' teaching - of the last decade?

Teachers have done alright over the last decade, I'm not sure the same can be said about their charges. Are they really equipped and inspired for what lies ahead or are they victims of a deception?

Of course, every man has his price for compliance or silence.

Education has been made a political football, you are kicking it around the field right now. You've implied you don't believe teachers know best, Prescience doesn't even think they exist anymore. Fortunately the politicians agree with you, and you have the system you deserve as a result of their involvement.

Funny how the attitude to striking is so different from the usual ways its discussed. I don't think teachers have done OK actually, the recruitment timebomb is still ticking, the average teacher is aging rapidly and all the new recruits are like forcing water into a leaking bucket. It looks full, it may even appear overflowing if the rate is high enough, but they have a career duration expectancy akin to the Royal Flying Corps of WW1. People are voting with their feet (HPC says Headteachers are overpaid, potential applicants for the job don't apply however...who is right?). Lets see how it all stacks up if the recession ever ends. Of course Gordon (and Ed) says otherwise, perhaps he is telling you the truth?

The attitude you espouse ultimately tells you why teachers haven't casually risked their jobs as you suggest they should. Militants, radicals, unqualified, selfish blah blah blah. Teachers have taken industrial action over the National Curriculum (some years ago) and SATs short of strike and the government actually capitulated on both occasions. That you don't recall any of that proves the point really, they can't count on your support.

And its true, everyone does have their price. Ask anyone who does practically anything for a living.

[CokeSnortingTory]

Deeply, deeply, painfully stupid point.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/158...n-21-years.html

21 years without a strike. Looks like the priority was doing the job after all.

And if they did go on strike over the issues identified, CokesnortingDavidCameron here would still be saying they were greedy and it was really only about money anyway (this is what the employers always say in these cases after all and they just keep offering you money, eventually you can either lose your job because they won't shift or take a pay rise... its a trap really).

Although the teachers may not have been on strike in 21 years (I experienced it as a kid), they have frequently threatened to do so (and yes, usually over pay), and this has been a fairly effective tactic. As has the boycott of the SATS test. Ultimately though if teachers want to regain the balance of power in the classroom, whether vis-a-vis pupils or local authorities or central government, it will have to be via co-ordinated union action. It is up to them to raise this as a priority issue.

Because there isn't any other way, is there?

[No Teacher - No Guru]

This teacher has clearly got the right idea for restoring discipline -

'A science teacher has appeared in court charged with the attempted murder of one of his students.

Peter Harvey, 49, is accused of attacking 14-year-old Jack Waterhouse at All Saints' Roman Catholic School in Mansfield on Wednesday morning.

He was remanded in custody by magistrates to appear at Nottingham Crown Court by videolink on July 27.

Paramedics found the teenager unconscious in a pool of blood at the entrance to a classroom in the school's science block.

He is in a stable condition at the Queen's Medical Centre in Nottingham, where he is being treated for a bleed on the brain and a fractured skull.

Harvey, of Rannoch Drive, Mansfield, spoke only to confirm his name and address during a ten-minute hearing at the town's magistrates' court.'

Violence is the only language these brutes understand.

Well you try explaining covalent bonds to them, it's like beating their heads into a brick wall.

[tinker]

Education has been made a political football, you are kicking it around the field right now. You've implied you don't believe teachers know best, Prescience doesn't even think they exist anymore. Fortunately the politicians agree with you, and you have the system you deserve as a result of their involvement.

Cogs, thank you for your passionate insights. Are you in the profession?

You appear closer to it than I do. I had looked at teaching as a career but thought better of it - issues of discipline, over-regulation, lack of free spirited 'hearts and minds' type teaching.

I agree that it is the politicians and their tendency to play kickball with the profession. This has been going on for decades, but has reached new levels since Education, Education, Education. We see it across all public sector bodies that a target driven approach tends to generate results rather than value. What gets measured gets done.

I remember from my times in education some of the great teachers I had, I wonder how they would fit in today. I kind of like the mavericks and characters - much more inspiring.

We should let teachers teach. Politicians especially and the engorged public sector admin that seem to be constantly striving to justify their own jobs should should back off.

I would imagine applications for teaching roles will be on the up now, not sure it will bring quality. The other change we are starting to see is prolonged education, regardless of ability, suitability and temperament. The 50% of youngsters going to university is ridiculous - at least it keeps kids off the dole.

I am supportive of teachers... but question whether their roles have morphed a little too much into pseudo parents and childminders.

[Guest AuntJess]

Surprised this teacher wasn't provided legal representation by his or her union tbh

That is funny, y'know. The NUT is a chocolate teapot AFA defending their supporters. I soon changed my union when I saw the travesty of justice meted out to my pal's hubby.

NUT is a microcosm of govt. - "in it to 'win' it, and sod the punters."

[Guest X-QUORK]

Hold on, something wrong here...we're on page 2 of a thread about teachers and not one accusation of them being lazy scroungers with too many holidays?

I'm going for a lie down.

[Guest AuntJess]

Hold on, something wrong here...we're on page 2 of a thread about teachers and not one accusation of them being lazy scroungers with too many holidays?

I'm going for a lie down.

I am no longer a teacher, but I don't begrudge them a second. I had classes who kept in line. I used to spend the holidays going on refresher courses and updating my class notes accordingly. Some clot on here talked about no updates needed: well obviously never had a Further or Higher Ed. as some subjects - like Psychology - are always discovering summat new and if your students are going to get the grades mine did, you have to keep on top of the latest stuff.

AS to the 2ndary schools: They have a nightmare task in the face of a generation of brats never 'broken to bridle' - as it were. These feral kids run amok and then the fingers point at the teachers. Rarely at the parents - who spawned them - and failed to civilise them, or at the politicians, who fund these indiscrimate spawnings at the expense of the taxpayer.

BTW Quork - you weren't trying to turn the sympathy for teachers into the usual brick-hurling, of those who think teaching is a doddle - were you?