Walthamstow, E17 - House Prices Going Up?

[pixie]

Hi,

I thought we were supposed to be in the midst of a house price crash??? ... I'm looking to buy in Walthamstow (around the Blackhorse Road station end) but have noticed over the past month that house prices seem to be going up (quite considerably in some cases).

Is the market on the up (i.e. should I buy now), or is this a case of estate agents taking the mick due to recent reports that things are improving (i.e. will prices be lowered again over the next 3 months)?

Thanks,

pixie

[Cat in the Hat]

I'm a bit to the south from you in Islington, and know exactly what you mean. However I don't think it's "on the up" - compared with the peak, there are very few properties on the market, so probably lots of potential buyers chasing a limited supply. Yeah, and estate agents are taking the mick. No one offers the asking price any more, so they've just held or raised prices so people think that they are getting a bargain when they negotiate a 'discount'.

However, while asking prices in North London haven't really declined, I've noticed a big drop in rents - I suspect this is where all the sellers are hiding 'until the market recovers'. Not sure that prices in London will really drop until there are more - probably forced - sales, and the increased volumes will push down prices as is happening in the rental market.

London remains ridiculously expensive and anything decent is pretty much out of reach for FTBs.

[pixie]

I hear what you are saying loud and clear 'cat in a hat' - the prices in north London are still ridiculous (especially in Islington!). I'm surprised that people choose to believe EA's hype about 'green shoots' rather than economists/academics predications.

I'm going to sit tight for a few months and see what happens - I'm convinced that prices have to drop further (... and if they stabilise than I'd have accumulated a nice fat deposit which will put me in a better position than other FTB's).

As for Islington ... this is an area I would like to consider (although out of my price range at the moment) but I'm not overly familiar with the area. Wherever I buy I'd like to be close to a tube station - are there any areas in Islington that should be avoided?

[pie-eater]

are there any areas in Islington that should be avoided?

Hell yeah; most of it!

Anything near one of Islington's very many social housing experiments is to be avoided.

Bermerton Estate

Market Estate

Packington Estate

Marquis Estate

Popham Estate

are just a selection of areas to distance yourself from - and the bulk of N7 just plain nasty.

Edited May 24, 2009 by pie-eater

[Cat in the Hat]

As for Islington ... this is an area I would like to consider (although out of my price range at the moment) but I'm not overly familiar with the area. Wherever I buy I'd like to be close to a tube station - are there any areas in Islington that should be avoided?

Have a look at EC1, south of Angel. There are two council wards, Clerkenwell and Bunhill. I'm in Clerkenwell, which is south east of Angel, bordering Camden and City of London, with Bunhill on the western side, bordering Hackney and City. Excellent transport links - Angel, Old Street, Farringdon and Barbican as nearby tube stops with large numbers of bus routes. Also, you can walk back from central London within 45 minutes. Or stagger back in under an hour if you've been drinking....

EC1 has good schools at primary level (it's the secondary schools that give Islington it's famously bad and well deserved reputation), excellent sports facilities, and fantastic transport links to the City, central London, and Islington proper (ie Upper St). We're about to get our second Waitrose in EC1.

Pie-eater is good at identifying the dodgy Islington estates in N1 and N7. However EC1 is 90% estates (and 10% loft apartments) , but that doesn't mean that they are bad. The Peabody stuff particularly is well run and 'well-disciplined'. Clerkenwell seems to house a lot of old people - the old 'white working class' and those who came over from the Carribean in the 50s, lots of big Italian families - ie. those with a strong work ethic, and sense of community. There are dodgy estates - I'm living on one with almost total unemployment, and the Red Brick estate in Bunhill off Old St seems to have a few hard-core neo-nazis.

Crime: I'm female and wander around at all hours and have never had problems. Most of my friends in the 'nicer' bits of the borough have been mugged, but possibly no one does this in the 'poorer' bit as residents don't look like lucrative targets. My partner got nutted during the happy slap craze, but nothing other than this. Lots of teenagers hanging around, but really they don't bother people.

Word of warning: Are you black? I reported a burglary in progress from a group of white teenagers and had a full blue-light response. After which the police turned up, grabbed some passing black teenager and beat him in front of me. A female black acquaintance in Clerkenwell got a red sports car that cost more than a PC's annual wage and had 23 stops locally for driving whilst black in a year. The police have quite an aggressive attitude to whites here (EC1 = scum) and treat anyone as a potential drug dealer and knife wielding maniac, but they're far worse if you have a hint of a tint. There's quite a racist undercurrent here - there are lots of minimum wage jobs that the locals don't consider 'white men's jobs' and a culture of aggression from the police and particularly plastic plods (PCOSs).

My big issue is that Islington is the least green borough in the UK and Clerkenwell is the most built-up area of the borough. I've been here a decade, and have enjoyed it, but I'm pining for a bit of grass. It's great urban living, but sometimes I could do with a decent park.

[johnny5thumbs]

oops ...

Edited May 25, 2009 by johnny5thumbs

[johnny5thumbs]

I've been here a decade, and have enjoyed it, but I'm pining for a bit of grass. It's great urban living, but sometimes I could do with a decent park.

Aah - Devon may be caling you soon, Cat in the Hat. I lived for exactly 10 years in Finsbury Park, Crouch End & finally Finchley before the siren call of green grass and fresh air could no longer be resisted. Could never return now !

By the way, don't you go nicking my avatar !

[pie-eater]

Have a look at EC1, south of Angel. There are two council wards, Clerkenwell and Bunhill. I'm in Clerkenwell, which is south east of Angel, bordering Camden and City of London, with Bunhill on the western side, bordering Hackney and City. Excellent transport links - Angel, Old Street, Farringdon and Barbican as nearby tube stops with large numbers of bus routes. Also, you can walk back from central London within 45 minutes. Or stagger back in under an hour if you've been drinking....

EC1 has good schools at primary level (it's the secondary schools that give Islington it's famously bad and well deserved reputation), excellent sports facilities, and fantastic transport links to the City, central London, and Islington proper (ie Upper St). We're about to get our second Waitrose in EC1.

Pie-eater is good at identifying the dodgy Islington estates in N1 and N7. However EC1 is 90% estates (and 10% loft apartments) , but that doesn't mean that they are bad. The Peabody stuff particularly is well run and 'well-disciplined'. Clerkenwell seems to house a lot of old people - the old 'white working class' and those who came over from the Carribean in the 50s, lots of big Italian families - ie. those with a strong work ethic, and sense of community. There are dodgy estates - I'm living on one with almost total unemployment, and the Red Brick estate in Bunhill off Old St seems to have a few hard-core neo-nazis.

Crime: I'm female and wander around at all hours and have never had problems. Most of my friends in the 'nicer' bits of the borough have been mugged, but possibly no one does this in the 'poorer' bit as residents don't look like lucrative targets. My partner got nutted during the happy slap craze, but nothing other than this. Lots of teenagers hanging around, but really they don't bother people.

Word of warning: Are you black? I reported a burglary in progress from a group of white teenagers and had a full blue-light response. After which the police turned up, grabbed some passing black teenager and beat him in front of me. A female black acquaintance in Clerkenwell got a red sports car that cost more than a PC's annual wage and had 23 stops locally for driving whilst black in a year. The police have quite an aggressive attitude to whites here (EC1 = scum) and treat anyone as a potential drug dealer and knife wielding maniac, but they're far worse if you have a hint of a tint. There's quite a racist undercurrent here - there are lots of minimum wage jobs that the locals don't consider 'white men's jobs' and a culture of aggression from the police and particularly plastic plods (PCOSs).

My big issue is that Islington is the least green borough in the UK and Clerkenwell is the most built-up area of the borough. I've been here a decade, and have enjoyed it, but I'm pining for a bit of grass. It's great urban living, but sometimes I could do with a decent park.

Indeed; if I had to live in Islington and couldn't afford the Upper St corridor, I'd go EC1 rather than risk N7 and all its horribleness. The council housing there is mainly well looked after and once you cross the City Rd/Pentonvill Rd part that's joined by Upper St it is strangely quiet; mainly because of the Congestion Charge.

The area does have a huge car crime/burglary problem, though. And if you choose anywhere off Essex Rd and walk at night then be wary of the fact that it is a major street robbery hot spot.

And be prepared for Paris style dog sh1t. No green space and lots of staff BT owners............... N6 is a better bet as you get more for your money, it's a better area and has less/no social housing. 10 mins extra travelling gets you so much more.

Edited May 25, 2009 by pie-eater

[pixie]

Thanks for all the info everyone. I'm now thinking I may well stick to looking in Walthamstow (regardless of what some people say/think, there really isn't that much trouble around these parts).

[River Man]

Still, Barnsbury's bloody lovely, isn't it? The most attractive part of the whole of London in my book.

[MRMX9]

A pity this thread veered away from the subject - Walthamstow - onto Islington. Islington is like the London equivalent of a third world capital - incredible wealth next to desperate poverty.

Give me Walthamstow any day - at least it has a soul.

[Cat in the Hat]

Give me Walthamstow any day - at least it has a soul.

But it's forever associated with pill-popping chavmeisters extroadinaire E17.

Islington has style, class, sophistication and um, Spandau Ballet.

No, on second thoughts you're right. I take it all back.

[pie-eater]

Islington has style, class, sophistication and um, Spandau Ballet.

You forgot to mention that it also has tons and tons of dog sh1t spread on its crime ridden streets

Edited May 27, 2009 by pie-eater

[Cat in the Hat]

You forgot to mention that it also has tons and tons of dog sh1t spread on its crime ridden streets

So it's exactly like Paris then?

I missed my vocation as an estate agent.

[River Man]

I'd ignore pie-eater, he's obviously got some anti-Islington thing going on. As crime in London boroughs go, it's pretty average really and much better than most. Check the met's statistics if you don't believe me.

Here's a table of 'crime against the person' - worst boroughs:

1. Southwark

2. Westminster

3. Lambeth

4. Lewisham

5. Tower Hamlets

6. Ealing

7. Newham

8. Greenwich

9. Hackney

10. Croydon

11. Camden

12. Islington

Total crime:

1. Lambeth

2. Southwark

3. Lewisham

4. Newham

5. Ealing

...

...

..

14. Camden

15. Enfield

16. Islington

I lived in Islington for years in HIghbury and then off UPper Street - it's quite safe. I didn't even notice a dogshit problem. And it's a pretty vibrant, interesting place to live with pretty bits and urban bits mixed up together. I used to live between Camberwell and Peckham - now that is a scary, crime-ridden area. Islington doesn't come close.

There is a social divide between rich and poor which can be shocking, and there isn't much greenery and the schools are crap, which is why I'm up in N8 with my kid. But I wouldn't overdo Islington's problems either.

Edited May 28, 2009 by River Man

[pie-eater]

I'd ignore pie-eater, he's obviously got some anti-Islington thing going on. As crime in London boroughs go, it's pretty average really and much better than most. Check the met's statistics if you don't believe me.

LOL. I used to work in the borough as a police officer.

The Met's stats only tell you notified crime and refelect massaged statistics. The nice parts of Islington are nice, I agree. But the bad bits are terrible and I'm guessing the person who we've highjacked thread from won't be able to afford to live in Barnsbury or Canonbury.

And the dog sh1t stands. No green space and an abundance of chavs and their staffs.........

Voted 7th worst place to live in Britain last year...

http://www.channel4.com/4homes/on-tv/best-and-worst/

Edited May 28, 2009 by pie-eater

[River Man]

The Met's stats only tell you notified crime and refelect massaged statistics.

Probably. But are people iN lambeth and SOuthwark more ready to report crime than people in Islington? or is someone from Islington got more access to the figures that their colleagues in other boroughs? I'm not saying the place is heaven on earth, but it's not as rough as the inner bits of South or East London, as the figures suggest

Voted 7th worst place to live in Britain last year...

Because of the quality of its schools, a typical inner London level of crime and absurd, Chelsea-esque prices given both of these.

Edited May 28, 2009 by River Man

[pie-eater]

I'd actually live in Islington, and did a few years back. But only in a few pockets of the borough.

I accept that I am a little, aherm, tainted by it from working there for so long and knowing more about what goes on and who lives there than your average professional that desires the N1 post code.

That's why I'm amazed at the prices it commands/demands as much of it is unsafe; from leaving your car to walking at night. The EAs and VIs sell it as trendy, and that creep has now moved east to the far worse Hackney.

I once recall going to see a robbery victim back in 06 after she'd just paid around £1million for a very nice, 3 floor period terrace. I didn't have the heart to tell her she lived 25 metres from a halfway house for released, serious offenders. That's what you get in much of London, but Islington is so small and built up, that you're much more likely to be very near trash.

The rich/poor thing in Islington is massive - hence the large amounts of theft related violent crime, burglary and car crime. Most of the street robbery is down to people that get a bus from Hackney to take advantage of the rich pickings - hence why the Essex Road area is a major hot spot, and not a place to walk after dark.

EDIT

As for notified crime....... Islington is mainly white, including the lower end the class system. Other inner boroughs' make-up tends to be more diverse, or not from these shores. They tend not to report crime so much. Something that is being worked on. The affro C community and Somalian community, in particular don't report crime for some reason.

Islington is great if you have money to live in a nice bit. Pretty much like anywhere in inner London really.

FURTHER EDIT

Walthamstow?

God, no! lol.

Move to N1.

Edited May 28, 2009 by pie-eater

[River Man]

N5's alright, though, isn't it? Always thought it was the most normal bit of Islington. In fact I briefly lived in an estate off Highbury Park and that was fine. More of a mix than most of the borough. Also the bottom bit of N7 around Arundel Square and Ellington Street etc. as well as round the Swimmer pub off Holloway. Otherwise (apart from EC1), bits of N19 are OK, especially the Tufnell Park side, as well as the Islington bits of Stroud Green.

I'm sure you're right about reported crime, but if ethnic communities tend not to report crime as much and Islington is mostly white how come reported crime appears low in Islington compared to Lambeth/Hackney/Southwark? Surely those areas would be underreporting, not Islington.

Incidentally in those same Met police stats for Burglary Islington comes 16th - Lambeth, Southwark and Newham all occupy the top 3. Theft is the only place Islington comes in the top 3, below Westminster and Camden, although I'd suggest that's more because they cover busy central areas where there are loads of people passing through.

are you sure you wouldn't feel the same way about any inner London Borough if you worked there for a while? A mate of mine works for Kensington & Chelsea council (in crime prevention) and he always says, if you knew what goes on in this borough (He always points at Notting Hill, which I imagine has similar issues to Islington, but also bits of Chelsea surprisingly).

Anyway back to the original question. If you're looking at North/North East adn want something decent but affordable then I'd try the cheaper areas of N8/N10 (Hornsey, Alexandra Park, Colney Hatch but west of the railway), even Stroud Green but not too close to Finsbury Park.

Edited May 29, 2009 by River Man