IMHAL

I think Howler is right.... it would not be right to condemn someone as a Leaver unjustly.... that would surely taint them for life.

Here you have it - people have done very well and yet elected to destroy the system that made them well off. Sounds....erm... stoopid to me. Seriously tho - you have over simplified things a tad. People did well until 2007... when the financial crash came, those people who did well then started to feel the pinch.... out come the excuse politicians and put the blame on immigration.... that's your Brexit in a nutshell. The people who lapped up this scapegoat'ery are impressionable to put it mildly. They have fallen for the oldest trick in the book. That's pretty daft in my books.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk Billy no Mate 'Hunt' tells the truth. NHS will be paid for with Tax hikes - as expected. For all of us with a degree in common sense - this was always going to be the case

When there is no real world solution to a problem... ritual based on fantasy is the answer. It has been shown that when you give a team a problem that is unsolvable they will resort to ritual. In this case the ritual is the headline grabbing sound bite.

I can see them sitting in a smoke filled room, sweating profusely as they consider the distinct possibility of the Tory party being dismembered by the internal struggles that Brexit is inflicting....... then suddenly someone says in a kind of quizzical voice 'I know, why don't we dress up the next tranche of money to the NHS as the Brexit Dividend!'........ the smoke clears, people stop sweating and a loud cheer and elation erupts amongst team Tory. The day is saved. Then Billy no mates pipes up 'but I thought there was no Brexit dividend?' - he will obviously not be invited to one of those meetings again - reality is frowned upon in some circles. There is no Brexit Dividend - it's lies and hogwash and the Leavers will lap it up.

why not......... if it works for the North Koreans it can work for us too.

So, Brexit means Brexit..... and ...........Brexit means............diet? This is getting better and better....... I am going to sell my shares in Weight Watchers pronto.

As Brexit twidddles, Rome is starting to burn. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-44498484 We must be ecstatically looking forward to negotiating a really beneficial FTA with the USA.......not. I do hope our 'special relationship' counts for something .

Oh deary me - not long before it all comes crashing down and we have a full scale crisis.

Too much in a hurry GD - I know you can read minds

You know very well what is unclear....the terms of our membership are clear .... the terms of leave where not and are still not.

If there was another Brexit vote where the terms of Brexit are clear then I am sure that most reasonable people would accept the outcome either way.

You are willing to accept that even though the referendum was flawed by virtue of it being undefined.... we should just go with it. .... come what may. That to me sounds like an ideological stand to take and not a pragmatic one. I don't accept your argument that fighting for the right to vote on the specific type of Brexit we will end up with (or if we should have one at all if the Breexit options are deemed unworkable) is against our democratic principles.

I can see you have a sense of humour....

It will not make a jot of different because it is not a negotiation..... I don't think you read my last post properly.... you talk about democracy.... this is the least democratic thing that has happened to us... now even parliament does not have a say in what the end result will be...... and we are supposed to be a parliamentary democracy

That's an interesting perspective you have there. I voted Remain. I have always had trouble accepting that the Leave vote was a legitimate democratic mandate for anything.... because Leave was always undefined and unbounded.... we are finding that out right now by the mess that is unfolding before our very eyes. To me the Leave vote was a vote to 'not keep the status quo'... it was not a vote for a legitimate and implementable alternative...... Imagine a vote put to the people where you ask ' Do you want the Tories to rule or do you want the Tories not to rule?' - how stupid is that - want exactly did we vote to replace the status quo with?...... who knows?... and now the people who voted for 'not the status quo' have zero control over what is actually going to be delivered.... that's not democracy.... it's idiocracy .

You got there in the end.

Lax lending approved by our governments. The end of no recourse mortgages. The repeal of Glass Steagall. Bankers allowed to run riot. QE. More QE. ZIRP. Resulting in every market being distorted - including house prices. Pointing your finger at the EU????? Wrong. Ultimately the promise of more tax revenue for our politicians is enough to clinch the deal and let the bankers off the leash. Result, short term euphoria, long term misery.

Maybe... just maybe ... because walking away is a totally unbelievable and idiotic threat to make.

Excellent! - by the time we Brexit we should all be rich. Can you break the good news to your leave buddies so that they stop winging about the negative consequences of Brexit ......please?....many thanks in advance.

I don't think my position is mistaken. No one wants tough love, but in the long run we all know it's good for us. Wishing tough love on someone is a reaction of last resort - which is where we are right now.

Ok - lets do this properly and dispel some myths. You are a citizen of Great Britain. You have to pay taxes and in return you get services from the state. Some of those services are there to protect you. The mafia works outside the law. The state and it's counterparts work inside the law. We will get a trade deal that is likely the same as any third country - no favouritism. What is the problem? Last point - fair enough but the same thing applied. He is just the messenger - you are the one who has taken us to this position that you are now complaining about.

You are being very naive. If you want access to a clubs services.... you pay for the privilege. Anyway..... I really don't know why you are winging.... you saw no value in the EU... wanted to get out of the club...so I suggest you lie in that bed... but please..... stop winging about it.... bend over and take it like a man... stiff upper lip and all that.

Tough love it's called - you only learn from your mistakes.... when it hurts you... otherwise you carry on making the same dumb a55ed decisions.

I don't understand your logic. You voted us out of the EU club, that has negative consequences that are now being understood and are soon to be felt. Hairy is just pointing out that fact (in his own way) and you declare him to be an 'enemy of the people'?. It's more a case of don't shoot the messenger and look in the mirror as to who the enemy of the people really are. You seem to be looking for some sort of sympathy from the business partner that we have just kicked in the shins - it ain't gona happen!