IMHAL

I hate bullies too and I'm a remainer. My behaviour on here has been shaped by the fights against the leave bullies on this forum who all too often tried to silence remainers. That has had a lasting impact on me and this forum. I'm not sure that that can be undone. I think you are going to have to accept that both sides have had a part to play.....

I was coming at this mainly from a uk perspective not a personal one. You are in your late prime.....the younger generation is more my concern and their opportunities or lack of. So if we can't be cushioned what is the point of leaving and giving up all the lovely upside in the near and medium term?....seems doubly daft given that the eu blow up is rather.......left field as a concept to say the least. As I said before, I have not seen a forecast with the eu blowing up included, even from the hard brexit mouth pieces. Their forecasts have been focused on fantasy fta's which we now know not to be true.

Evidence was a silly thing to say...my bad.......a request for a convincing argument would have been more apt. Tho now we are getting somewhere......I will have a look at this Mundell fella, thanks. At the moment, and I am always open to change my mind, I put far more probability of brexit ruining us than the eu. Hang on tho....If every man and his dog knows that the eu/euro is going to implode, it hasn't found it's way into any forecasts, to my knowledge.... which is strange if it is common knowledge....must be one of those things no one wants to talk about...eh......or.....no one believes.

Do you need mind reading powers to extend an analogy?

Come on..... the evil ideology of the nazis, remainers doing nothing to stop them (because they only look at stuff from an economic pov) ... by implication those saviour leavers recognising the threat..... purlease......

Don't blame me bruv.... I was just going along with the silly analogy....under duress I might add.

You may have a point... most of those who voted brexit secretly think we are in a re-run of a ww2 movie where we are being invaded by the nazis. Very astute....just one problem....we ain't.

If you are that worried about the eu imploding what other actions have you considered as insurance against such an event? And why do you think leaving would cushion us? You have obviously thought about it alot so looking forward to your wisdom on this.

Silly analogy but we can take it further. If economists on both sides where in charge they may have concluded that it was best to avoid the war altogether...and hence save lots of lives. Here is another, if Brexiteers where in charge they would have taken us to war and and said that we would win two minutes after it was declared, whilst failing to war game and build up arms in preparation....being confident that dad's army would save the day should they actually take us seriously.

I understand your point very well. I am pointing out that with your logic and any 'future potential disastrous event', pick or invent one...you can justify doing anything. I can't buy into that, therfore I will stick to what is in the here and now and not some future event that will probably not come to pass. Whoever does take your line must aso have a very strong belief that the Eu/Euro project will collapse, in the near future.....and.....by being outside of it we will be sheltered from the fallout..... I don't buy it. If you can give us some real convincing evidence of why and when the eu will meet it's certain demise then I might reconsided.

You make a fair point....I can be guilt of that... I'll try and reign it in. In my defence, if I don't vigorously refute what I believe to be false, then it is often taken as fact and used and then reused as an excuse/justification to Brexit. As regards addressing the issues of why people voted Brexit.... we did cover it (maybe not exhaustively) and as usual with lots of disagreement. It's quite hard to do it properly as Brexit seemed to be a catch-all including the go-to protest vote. I agree Trump and Brexit do share some commonality....

You seem to be confirming what I have said.... you said that there will be a negative short and medium term impact ... then you go on to say it's worth (taking the hit) because 'Brexit is for the long term'......... further on you justify this 'statement' by saying Brexit will save us from EU/Euro when they eventually croak..... Well I am glad that's settled then.... one minute you have no idea what the future holds and don't take educated punts, the next, you have 20-20 vision of what the future hold and have taken an educated punt.... please do make your mind up... To be specific........you are telling us to sacrifice the economic benefits in the short and medium term (20+ years worth) of staying in the EU because YOU believe that the negative impact of such an event (if it where to happen) would outweigh all the benefits........ Righto henny penny!!!! As I said, I can justify just about any long term action that damages my short/medium term prospects with the above logic together with some insane prediction that I have pulled out of my a55.

if you don't know the outcome of taking path a or path b then you might as well flip a coin, ie equal probability. If you don't take an educated punt then you are not using all the information at your disposal in selecting a path you are disadvantaged thereby reducing the probability for a desired outcome. No one is predicting Armagedon... what is being predicted in the short and medium term for Brexit is various degrees of hit to the economy from mild to quite severe depending on the type of Brexit. What is disingenuous is those who suggest that if we take a 50 year time horizon we cannot know what the outcome will be therefore it does not matter that the near and medium term outcomes are bad. Because that argument can be used to justify just about any action and therefore cannot not be used to justify any.

One has to take an educated punt.... your argument seems to preclude this and puts all possible future outcomes as equally probable........ if that is the beedin obvious to you then please feel free to keep it to yourself. I rather go with a reasonable plan based on reasonable assumptions and some sturdy analysis thanks... I'll leave the sorry excuses with no measurable outcomes to those who have no plan and no idea.

You do seem to think everyone who wants a successful economy is motivated by personal greed.....it is presumptuous of you.......a strong economy is important for the wellbeing of it's population.... that is what the majority of remainers are arguing. You seem fixated on your interpretation regardless of what is said.

Sounds like you have no plan and no idea......they go well together......

Lol....

I guess 50 years makes it far enough away that we can't come after you or jmr if you are wrong. How f'in convenient is that.... which goes a long way to thinking jmr and by extention, yourself are poor snake oil salesmen. Do us a favour and and give those poor fkrs who are going to be destroyed by your idiotic 50yrs of destitution a little more plan and less snake oil.

Are you saying that the EU is preventing us making tough decisions about how we fund the NHS? Your last sentence seems to be saying that.

It appear we can get by on bravado and used car sales bluster......in which case we should make spivving a compulsory subject at school.

That's really funny....... I expect you'll need some vaseline with that

If you were good at planing you would know what you proposed is not a plan. At best it's an ill considered action. You can't run a country on a hope and a prayer with a gob of attitude and bravado thrown in.....we're not a nation of used car salesmen.

I take it you are also new to planning...

Sounds like you don't really worry about much at all........ You are new around here...welcome.....we've gone past simplistic 'itll work out alright on the night' arguments. Most people want a plan....that's how you run a country....

Thank fck for that. It's probably more about maintaining seamless money laundering between our jurisdictions...we don't want to upset the oligarchs, the mafia or the drug cartels.