French Languedoc - The Party's Over!

[TonyB]

I've owned a house in the Herault department of the Languedoc for a couple of years. I had intended to keep it for a few years but in recent months I have become more and more disturbed by reports that prices there are peaking and indeed falling!

I was out there in December and two agents agreed that prices cannot go up any more and a fall is due.

This is mainly due to supply and demand working against the price: demand has dropped due to UK investors (the Place in the Sun crowd) holding back due to the jitters in their own housing market, and secondly a huge increase in the supply of renovated village houses in that region of France. When I was looking two years ago there was very little good property around, which fuelled the continuing price rises.

As I still work in the UK I look on the house as an investment and cannot afford to have a depreciating asset, especially as all my money is tied up in it (no mortgage). I've had it valued and I will make modest profit on it, so I think sadly it's time to sell.

Does anyone else have any insight into property in the south of France?

[letitcomedown]

I live in the Aude valley a bit further south. Around this way I've yet to see any price falls, and last time I looked in any detail (November) prices were still going up, but there has definitely been a large increase in the supply of "village" houses in various states of disrepair, usually with no garden or land. Unfortuantly what everyone seems to be looking for - good habitable old stone house with some land somewhere near civilization but not near a main road - is still rare and expensive.

We've met in the last couple of months a whole load of Belgians, Dutch, Americans and Brits moving over permanently though, more seems to be renting than before while they look for the dream property above! The bank manager we saw last week (opening a local account) said lots of brits still coming over, usually with some half arsed business plan they want finance for. But to me it looks like the frenzy over property from the Brits has died down to some degree.

Also there has been a increase in the number of locals buying property, there are new laws to give a certain amount of mortgage interest free under some conditions.

Are you by the cost or inland? What sort of property?

[TonyB]

Are you by the cost or inland? What sort of property?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hi, thanks for your response. It's in the village of Neffies, very near Pezenas which is the local big town, 30 mins from Beziers and 40 mins from the coast.

It would probably sell very quickly as it's a traditional village house which I have totally renovated inside and out - new facade, rewired and re-plumbed, new tiling, three new bathrooms etc! Four bedrooms in total. If you hear of anyone who might be interested let me know! The village is also sought after - one of the few with its own decent restaurant.

Outside space: no garden but it does have a courtyard and a separate terrace (about 10m x 10m) with a great view.

Ideally I'd sell it privately in order to dodge the immobilier fees - I know in theory the buyer pays the fee but it still comes out of the advertised price, so in reality it's the same.

The problem is that I have to be there to show the house, unless I can find someone to do it for me for a small fee!

Do you work in France or do you commute back to the UK?

[letitcomedown]

Sounds like a nice place. Most of the people I've meet are looking for the Aude though, I believe prices are a bit cheaper down here, the Bezier area is supposed to be completely insane.

As regards someone to do showings, have you tried your neighbours, or www.livingfrance.com ? For a private sale, you can put a classified on www.the-languedoc-page.com (peter who runs it lives in the languedoc and is a mine of useful information too, and he posts here).

>Do you work in France or do you commute back to the UK?

I work remotely from here for a multinational and get paid out of the french office, it works out pretty well for me. I pop back a few times a year. It enabled me to move out here now rather than wait for retirement.

Regardless of what happens to house prices in LR - and even though I'm a firm UK bear I am still undecided about prices here as my post has indicated - the space and land I have here is pretty huge, and costs less than a 1 bed flat in the home counties where I came from, AND the mortgage rate is much lower.

[mpprh]

Hi

What a nice chap that letitcomedown is. And perceptive !

A few background points from my part of Languedoc :

There were a lot of Brit buyers, but still a minority overall.

The market here is slow. It is difficult to say if prices are coming down - people are in denial and asking for unrealistic prices.

Perhaps, in truth, the market stabilised a while ago and it has taken time for sellers to adjust their price expectations ?

Agents have stopped talking about lack of products, winter blues, too high prices and now say "we don't see many customers"

There are stories of agencies closing & laying off staff.

Hard to tie this in exclusively with the UK market. The Parisian invasion (following the TGV arrival and the 35hr week) seems to have faded, the German economy is not good, and I don't seem to see as many Dutch, Belgian, Swiss cars about as in the past.

In the villages, prices were fuelled by limited availability of land, and a return to the villages by French families worried about inner city problems.

The costs of exchange and fairly stable mortgage costs have historically limited boom & bust in the French property market. The recent price boom is pretty unusual. It is not limited to Languedoc, but widespread across France.

New builds are still very active in my area despite the increased land cost.

Regards

Peter

[letitcomedown]

>What a nice chap that letitcomedown is. And perceptive !

Thank you!

I saw this today, registration might be necessary to read it. http://www.ladepeche.com/aff_art.asp?Ref=2...3161060&Rub=011

Basically, Limoux in the Aude had the highest growth of any town in France by price per metre squared, +35% last year. Carcassone +2.9%. Local estate agents doubt the figure is that high. Reasons given are zero-rate loans, longer mortgages, French retirees and foreign (most English and Irish) holiday home owners. The deputy maire said the figures showed the current vitality of the town.

[jmpoure]

Dear all,

Real-estate is entering a depression in France. Read more on Bulle immobilière (French) or Bulle immobilière (English)

Kind regards,

Jean-Michel Pouré

[letitcomedown]

I've seen quite a few signs of activity in the last few weeks, sold signs in the estate agents, English and French removal vans arriving, people obviously house hunting with Immo (=property) magazines and property details sitting in cafes. Not as many as two years ago but a lot more than last year. The properties that are selling seem to be wrecks < 50k euros or larger properties with land >250 k euros. The village houses without land don't seem to be selling.

[mpprh]

I've seen quite a few signs of activity in the last few weeks, sold signs in the estate agents, English and French removal vans arriving, people obviously house hunting with Immo (=property) magazines and property details sitting in cafes. Not as many as two years ago but a lot more than last year.  The properties that are selling seem to be wrecks < 50k euros or larger properties with land >250 k euros. The village houses without land don't seem to be selling.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, same in my area.

Several properties have been added to my free classifieds recently.

And I've been in contact with half a dozen wanabee expats over the last few weeks, and three of them have bought properties in the Euro 300,000 range.

We don't seem to have any < Euro 50k wrecks left these days !

Peter

[letitcomedown]

Odd. I've had two emails tonight from people who want to visit and come look at property, one as a holiday home one permanent. I have absolutely nothing to do at all with the property industry here, maybe I should do.

Properties less than 50k in my area here: www.hdcimmo.com or here: http://www.immo-sud.com/pagev1.htm

A scary thing about French property is how bad some of the "habitable" properties actually are, the photos usually are very misleading.

Peter, do these wannable expats have places to sell in the UK? how are they doing sales wise.

[mpprh]

Peter, do these wannable expats have places to sell in the UK? how are they doing sales wise.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hi

Two were already French based : not sure about the other one.

I'm not involved in selling property, other than through the classifieds on my website. I also get emails from potential buyers. There seems to be some interest in this area from Ireland, NZ and USA.

I've talked to other couples this week. One has just downsized in London and already had a small house here, and the other couple are upsizing in UK, but can't sell their own UK property.

Peter

[southernrob]

Hello there,

Well I sold a wreck in Gabian for 29000 euros last week, so.... there are still some bits and bobs about under 50k.

Tony, please get in touch with me, I was asking Kevin of Jane and Kevin if they knew who owned the house you are selling, because I might very well have a buyer for you.

Otherwise, the market, well it has slowed down yes. On one of my sites I have got 4 BnBs in Caux all for sale at the moment. There's a French Marchand des Biens I know who has been looking for a deal, he says most of the sellers he has seen recently have been Brits.

Traditionally the market down here has been slow and patchy, it is only over the last three to four years that it has flamed and everyone and their grandma chucked every old unused family owned house onto the fire. So when demand cooled a bit after the outbreak of the Irak war, the supply was also limited as all the slack surplus houses had already been sold. Prices stayed up and even continued to climb a bit. Bur now that effect is wearing off and, unless we see a return to pre Irak levels of tourism down here, prices on the bigger places are going to stagnate and possibly dive.

Those who bought expecting to use summer lets as a partial mortgage payer, have felt the pinch over the last couple of years, and this year is seeing just a 5% hike over last year in rentals which is nothing. Ive got owners offering 20% and 30% discounts on high season lets and still not filling .......

Smaller properties and building plots will definitely hold their own in the face of the Languedoc population explosion forecast to conntinue over the next 15 years. The Languedoc has just put together an ambitious project called 'Renover Louer', if I remember, which will give owners in certain communities grants of up to 60% of the renovation costs to bring a village house up to letting standard. The house then has to be rented out at a rent not exceeding a given level, but it is quite reasonable, for a minimum of 9 years, and this rent is index linked.. The department effectively garantees the rent, the renters get special allocations and part of their rent paid for them for moving into one of these properties.

At the end of the 9 years it is easy to get free posession and you have nice capital growth. better to wait for 16 years though to avoid capital gains.

Montagnac is one of the selected communes and i am just waiting to find out if a total ruin there would qualify.

Best,

Rob

But Tony can you mail me please on [email protected], thanks.

Edited May 18, 2005 by southernrob

[TonyB]

Hello there,

Well I sold a wreck in Gabian for 29000 euros last week, so.... there are still some bits and bobs about under 50k.

Tony, please get in touch with me, I was asking Kevin of Jane and Kevin if they knew who owned the house you are selling, because I might very well have a buyer for you.

Hi Rob, I'll drop you an email right now.

Tony

[southernrob]

Unless it was you Tony offering me a hanbag

<<Congrats Rob You've been selected to participate in our 'Free*Designer Handbag promotion.

To claim Burberry or Coach handbag, Go Here>>

it has nor come through.

Best,

Rob

PS i have sent you a private message here in the forum with my tel no.

[TonyB]

Unless it was you Tony offering me a hanbag

<<Congrats Rob You've been selected to participate in our 'Free*Designer Handbag promotion.

To claim Burberry or Coach handbag, Go Here>>

it has nor come through.

Best,

Rob

PS i have sent you a private message here in the forum with my tel no.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hi Rob,

Sorry, phone rang so I haven't done the email yet. I've picked up your pm so I will phone you instead.

Tony

[southernrob]

I have some friends with another house in the same village .Click here to see their house

covered pool, gite possibilities etc.

They want to stretch their wings and do some new build up in the hills.

They will consider any buyer options/offers -

Straight buy

Sell Half (Can be divided into two properties very neatly, the larger one keeps the pool and courtyard. The other has windows over a little street and access via there.

Fractional ownership, sell it to an SCI or a Brit limited company (SCI is easier for the mortgages) and sell proper shares in the SCI tied to parts of the property and or periods of use.

If you can think of any other, 3/4 baked as a minimum, ways of buying/selling let us know.

They've just put the downstairs apartment (sleeps 6, private pool shared use of the courtyard up for rent for this year, so if anyone wants to try'n buy!!, mail me!)

best Rob

Edited May 19, 2005 by southernrob

[mpprh]

Hi

it seems decent properties are selling well .

This house sold in under 1 month.

Peter

[letitcomedown]

Wife asked for details of three houses in a town in the Aude, two had already sold. Judging by the response, estate agents don't seem to be too desperate to attract buyers just yet!

Also there is still lots of English looking in estate agents windows, also quite a lot of unidentified Nordics I haven't seen before, Danish is my guess but could be Swedes.

Prices seem if anything to have gone up slightly for good stuff but I've noticed a couple of reductions on stupidly priced properties.

[bobdabuilder]

Just back from Nice - property prices high and a few EA told me that the market has slowed especially top end (300K euros plus).

Funny how some people overvalue their properties by SO much. Can really relate to the "habitable" quote above. Habitable by cows maybe!

[mpprh]

Hi

just an update :

The local Midi Libre had a major story about house prices in Nimes. The gist was : sales are slowing, some prices are coming down, loan repayment rates are too high compared with earnings. If you are quick, you can read it here : http://www.midilibre.com/accueilml.html .

Not sure if this is a local thing. Nimes has high unemployment and low salaries. Few expats buy in Nimes itself. Nimes prices have been exploding because of Ryanair, and probably more importantly, TGV from Paris.

Judging by my local contacts : the desperate urgency to buy has ended, there are buyers around, prices are more sensible.

Peter

[letitcomedown]

Thanks Peter,

Update from further inland. Kind of mixed.

We're been looking to buy another property down here close to a town in the high valley of the aude, and finding it tough even as "rich" foreigners. Anything sound, reasonably priced in a decent location is selling before we even get to see it, and there are some crazy prices the likes of which I've never seen before about - 440 k EURO for a 3 bed villa??? Madness. Lots of moneyed posh English people are lurking around the towns and lots of people are buying up property to develop.

But... I've also seen some reductions in one estate agent for village houses, might just be trying to get rid of properties before winter.

If I'd hazard a guess, I would say the "holiday home" market is in decline or saturated but this area is now "trendy" and there is a demand want to move permanently/start businesses.

Two new RyanAir links from north of the UK open to Carcassonne next year, plus we have had a few books written about the area.

[therese]

Hi

We bought village house in Lespignan last year,now we are in the process of renovations. It is a 3 bed village hse.no terrace, is the market still going up. Also what is your opinion of rental market- seasonal end.

Therese

[mpprh]

Hi

Seems to be the usual Xmas slump, but I've had a lot of contacts for property purchase in the last few days.

And this should help - 2006 cheap flight announcements into Languedoc :

To From Airline

Avignon Southampton Flybe

Barcelona Amsterdam Air Berlin

Barcelona Amsterdam Transavia

Barcelona Amsterdam Vueling

Barcelona Austrian cities Air Berlin

Barcelona Basel-Mulhouse Easyjet

Barcelona Belfast Thomsonfly

Barcelona Belfast Jet2

Barcelona Berlin Easyjet

Barcelona Billund Sterling

Barcelona Birmingham Thomsonfly

Barcelona Bratislava Sky Europe

Barcelona Bristol Easyjet

Barcelona Brussels Virgin Express

Barcelona Brussels Vueling

Barcelona Bucharest Blue Air

Barcelona Budapest Sky Europe

Barcelona Budapest Wizzair

Barcelona Cardiff Thomsonfly

Barcelona Cologne-Bonn Germanwings

Barcelona Copenhagen Sterling

Barcelona Dortmund Easyjet

Barcelona Edinburgh Flyglobespan

Barcelona Gatwick Easyjet

Barcelona Gatwick Thomsonfly

Barcelona Geneva Easyjet

Barcelona German cities Air Berlin

Barcelona Glasgow Thomsonfly

Barcelona Glasgow Flyglobespan

Barcelona Glasgow Air Scotland

Barcelona Gothenburg Sterling

Barcelona Helsinki Sterling

Barcelona Helsinki Air Berlin

Barcelona Italian cities Meridiana

Barcelona Italian cities Vueling

Barcelona Katowice Wizzair

Barcelona Krakow Sky Europe

Barcelona Leeds Thomsonfly

Barcelona Leeds Jet2

Barcelona Liverpool Easyjet

Barcelona Liverpool Thomsonfly

Barcelona Luton Easyjet

Barcelona Luton Thomsonfly

Barcelona Manchester Thomsonfly

Barcelona Manchester Monarch

Barcelona Newcastle Easyjet

Barcelona Newcastle Thomsonfly

Barcelona Nottingham Thomsonfly

Barcelona Oslo Sterling

Barcelona Paris Vueling

Barcelona Riga Air Baltic

Barcelona Riga Estonian Air

Barcelona Salzburg Sky Europe

Barcelona Spanish cities Vueling

Barcelona Stansted Easyjet

Barcelona Stansted Air Berlin

Barcelona Stockholm Sterling

Barcelona Stockholm Fly Nordic

Barcelona Stuttgart Germanwings

Barcelona Swiss cities Air Berlin

Barcelona Teeside Thomsonfly

Carcassonne Charleroi Ryanair

Carcassonne Dublin Ryanair

Carcassonne Nottingham Ryanair

Carcassonne Stansted Ryanair

Girona Birmingham Thomsonfly

Girona Blackpool Ryanair

Girona Bournemouth Ryanair

Girona Brussels JetOnly

Girona Cardiff Thomsonfly

Girona Charleroi Ryanair

Girona Doncaster Thomsonfly

Girona Dublin Ryanair

Girona Dusseldorf Ryanair

Girona Eindhoven Ryanair

Girona Florence Ryanair

Girona Frankfurt Hahn Ryanair

Girona Gatwick Thomsonfly

Girona Glasgow Thompsonfly

Girona Karlsruhe Baden Ryanair

Girona Liverpool Ryanair

Girona Luton Ryanair

Girona Luton Thomsonfly

Girona Manchester Thomsonfly

Girona Milan Ryanair

Girona Newcastle Thomsonfly

Girona Nottingham Ryanair

Girona Prestwick Ryanair

Girona Rome Ryanair

Girona Rotterdam Transavia

Girona Shannon Ryanair

Girona Stansted Ryanair

Girona Stockholm Ryanair

Girona Teeside Thomsonfly

Girona Venice Ryanair

Lyon Bournemouth Thomsonfly

Lyon Coventry Thomsonfly

Lyon Doncaster Thomsonfly

Lyon Dublin Aer Lingus

Lyon Heathrow BA

Lyon Heathrow BMI baby

Lyon Stansted Easyjet

Lyon Marakesh Atlas Blue

Marseille Cologne-Bonn Hapag Lloyd Express

Marseille Dublin Aer Lingus

Marseille Gatwick BA

Marseille Gatwick Easyjet

Marseille Prestwick Ryanair

Montpellier Casablanca Air Horizons

Montpellier Copenhagen Sterling

Montpellier Frankfurt Hahn Ryanair

Montpellier Gatwick BA

Montpellier Oslo Norwegian

Montpellier Oslo Sterling

Montpellier Stansted Ryanair

Montpellier Stockholm Sterling

Nimes Charleroi Ryanair

Nimes Liverpool Ryanair

Nimes Luton Ryanair

Nimes Nottingham Ryanair

Perpignan Birmingham Flybe

Perpignan Manchester BMI baby

Perpignan Southampton Flybe

Perpignan Stansted Ryanair

Reus Coventry Thomsonfly

Rodez Stansted Ryanair

St Etienne Stansted Ryanair

Toulon Brussels JetOnly

Toulon Brussels Virgin Express

Toulon Rotterdam Transavia

Toulon Stansted Ryanair

Toulouse Birmingham Flybe

Toulouse Bristol Flybe

Toulouse Dublin Aer Lingus

Toulouse Gatwick BA

Toulouse Gatwick Easyjet

Toulouse Hamburg Germanwings

Toulouse Manchester BMI baby

Toulouse Marakesh Atlas Blue

Peter

[letitcomedown]

It's half term in UK, flight down to Toulouse yesterday was totally crammed (probably expected anyway). New line from Liverpool->Carcasssone is now open, Nottingham opening next month. Tour de France arriving in Carcassonne 14th July for the traditional big fireworks over the old cite. Yet another book about the area (Labyrinthe) on the best seller list and on Richard and Judy's book club.

Lots of people looking in estate agents window in one of the two nearest towns. Prices of some places that were on the market for 3-4 months have actually gone UP e.g. farmhouse that is most similar to ours was 350k now 430k. Two of the places we were going to look when we put our place on the market have now sold.

I guess EAs are expecting this party to carry on a little while longer.

[southernrob]

Hmm, I agree.

Bookings are up for the Herault summer. Swallows are coming back to roost. House prices and sales seem to march hand in hand with house rentals. I predict prices rising again from late Spring. There are already flocks of buyers around the Pezenas area.

Rob